Does anyone think what they did to Cersei was unjust?

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

She is a truly despicable person, but the walk wasn't the right punishment, IMHO.

[sapphire_lion]

Just adding to both of your points, I can't see how Kevan thought It was a good political move. If anything, Cersei is the most powerful Lannister - She is Queen Mother and Lady of the Rock. He just shamed the most powerful Lannister family member, and therefore affected Tommen's reign deeply. How does Kevan hopes the Kingdoms will stand behind a King whose mother was just paraded naked on the streets of King's Landing? If anything, he should have made sure something like that never even got close to happening. Cersei is broken, but so is the Lannister cause, and that is mostly Kevan's fault.

Kevan convinced himself that the walk of shame was the best thing to do politically, but I wonder if deep down he did it not only because he wanted Cersei neutralized but because he wanted revenge for what Cersei did to Lancel. (This I can empathize with. If someone sexually exploited my child I might do something cruel and unusual myself. Having something like that done to your child messes with your mind. It might make you capable of things you would never otherwise do.) That being said, it was a bad move for House Lannister. Their brand is now completely tarnished. Anything would have been better than that exhibition!

[sapphire_lion]

Or, like me, you can root for her triumphing and establishing a new royal dynasty,a line of queens.

So she can kill and torture more innocent people? No thanks.

[Kuma]

Cercei reap what she sow. I think she deserves even worse punishment than walk of shame...well maybe not too late for that.

[Iskandros]

Not a chance. I think they were very lenient on her considering the atrocities she commited. Just thinking about Robert's infant bastards she killed is enough to make me want to toss her off the Red Keep. What they did to her was unjust only in the sense that it was unjust for everyone else that she was treated so kindly.

[The Frosted King]

No.

Cersei wouldn't want us to pity her.

So i smirked when she shed her robe, snickered when she stumbled and was crying tears of mirth when she crawled at the end.

If only it could've ended with her naked body being thrown off the back of the Red Keep, only to land broken and twisted on the rocks below, with the thick sludgey wet of the Blackwater Rush rising ever so slowly, while the croon of thirty thousand northmen blowing their warhorns sounded at the gates.

I've never read a character more deserving of hatred than the lioness of Lannister.

Pity/compassion is wasted on such as her.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

She didn't realize how bad or far the walk would really be when she agreed to it. But since it was her choice it is hard to feel sorry for her. She just couldnt stand sleeping in that cell in rags anymore and getting woken up every few hours. Although it seems like the waking up every few hours thing had already stopped when she confessed. So it was her choice. If anything is to be faulted it is whoever came up with this stupid idea for punishment to begin with. sexual punishment= atonement??? Please, IMO, it is a good example of how stupid this religion is to begin with. I agree with everyone who is saying Kevin was stupid to let this happen. It shamed his whole family, his deceased brother and himself. HOWEVER, tywin did the exact same thing to his step-mother after his father died. Stripped her of all her finery and forced her to walk naked through Lannisport (if I remember correctly). So there was a bit of nasty family irony to the entire walk of shame for Cersei. She is her fathers daughter, he raised her to be so crazy, their want/need of power and respect is criminal, these crazy lions.

So to recap, the punishment is a terrible stupid sexist way to punish someone and fuck the HS for even suggesting it. But she chose to do it, so it's really her own fault, she just didnt realize how terrible it would actually be.

[Ramsay Gimp]

They were punishing her for the wrong reasons, yes.

But Cersei deserved what happened, and more. I have a hard time thinking of a punishment too humiliating or painful for her. The people saying that she deserves to be killed but doesn't deserve a walk of shame seem incoherent to me.

Who cares if it's sexist, honestly? Is sexism against an awful person worse than killing them now? It's identity politics run amok

[Hajk]

Kevan convinced himself that the walk of shame was the best thing to do politically, but I wonder if deep down he did it not only because he wanted Cersei neutralized but because he wanted revenge for what Cersei did to Lancel. (This I can empathize with. If someone sexually exploited my child I might do something cruel and unusual myself. Having something like that done to your child messes with your mind. It might make you capable of things you would never otherwise do.) That being said, it was a bad move for House Lannister. Their brand is now completely tarnished. Anything would have been better than that exhibition!

Kevan's motives here are clear. His own chapter points them out:

"Whatever Cersei may have done, she is still a daughter of the Rock, of mine own blood. I will not let her die a traitor's death, but I have made sure to draw her fangs. All her guards have been dismissed and replaced with my own men. In place of her former ladies-in-waiting, she will henceforth be attended by a septa and three novices selected by the High Septon. She is to have no further voice in the governance of the realm, nor in Tommen's education. I mean to return her to Casterly Rock after the trial and see that she remains there. Let that suffice."

The rest he left unsaid. Cersei was soiled goods now, her power at an end. Every baker's boy and beggar in the city had seen her in her shame and every tart and tanner from Flea Bottom to Pisswater Bend had gazed upon her nakedness, their eager eyes crawling over her breasts and belly and woman's parts. No queen could expect to rule again after that. In gold and silk and emeralds Cersei had been a queen, the next thing to a goddess; naked, she was only human, an aging woman with stretch marks on her belly and teats that had begun to sag … as the shrews in the crowds had been glad to point out to their husbands and lovers. Better to live shamed than die proud, Ser Kevan told himself. "My niece will make no further mischief,"

And then

His niece had been subdued and submissive since her walk of atonement, thank the gods. The novices who attended her reported that she spent a third of her waking hours with her son, another third in prayer, and the rest in her tub. She was bathing four or five times a day, scrubbing herself with horsehair brushes and strong lye soap, as if she meant to scrape her skin off.

She will never wash the stain away, no matter how hard she scrubs.

AND

I have no reason to feel guilty, Ser Kevan told himself. Tywin would understand that, surely. It was his daughter who brought shame down on our name, not I. What I did I did for the good of House Lannister. It was not as if his brother had never done the same.

Ser Kevan pushed himself to his feet. Time to face the lioness in her den. We have pulled her claws.

here he is trying to convince himself that he did the right thing by allowing this. He didn't force Cersei into this, but made her feel that this was her only choice. He is quite openly admitting, even to himself that he was complicit in doing this to her.

As Cersei notes:

"I have confessed."

"Atoned, I said. Before the city. A walk—"

"No." She knew what her uncle was about to say, and she did not want to hear it. "Never. Tell him that, if you speak again. I am a queen, not some dockside whore."

"No harm would come to you. No one will touch—"

"No, " she said, more sharply. "I would sooner die."

Ser Kevan was unmoved. "If that is your wish, you may soon have it granted. His High Holiness is resolved that you be tried for regicide, deicide, incest, and high treason."

In her walk of shame chapter, it seems like Kevan has not told her or left her with any expectation that he will have Tommen appoint Qyburn's champion to the KG. In facthat seems to be a major motivation in agreeing to do this:

But she dare not let the Faith sit in judgment on her, as that Margaery Tyrell meant to do. That might serve the little rose well enough, but Cersei had few friends amongst the septas and sparrows around this new High Septon. Her only hope was trial by battle, and for that she must needs have a champion.

If Jaime had not lost his hand …

That road led nowhere, though. Jaime's sword hand was gone, and so was he, vanished with the woman Brienne somewhere in the riverlands. The queen had to find another defender or today's ordeal would be the least of her travails. Her enemies were accusing her of treason. She had to reach Tommen, no matter the costs. He loves me. He will not refuse his own mother. Joff was stubborn and unpredictable, but Tommen is a good little boy, a good little king. He will do as he is told. If she stayed here, she was doomed, and the only way she would return to the Red Keep was by walking. The High Sparrow had been adamant, and Ser Kevan refused to lift a finger against him.

Kevan humiliated the Lady of the Rock, who, one imagines, is the current head of the Lannister family. For as long as he lives, Tommen will have to live with the memory of his mother's humilation, her being forced to parade naked in front of the city, in people's minds. Was this really a favor to Tommen? Had she been told that a champion had been appointed for her etc. she may never have chosen to do this.

[Lady of Long Lake]

I find her punishment perverted and an abuse of power. Kevan feels this too and that's why he gives himself a pep talk about why he should not feel ashamed.

It bothered me how Kevan fawned over Cersei in earlier books: saying she was as beautiful as the sun and no other woman could compare, especially Lyanna. He recalls her as being a "goddess" in her earlier years, after the walk of shame. But Kevan looked at her during the Walk because he notes her sagging breasts! If he had any decency, he would never have looked at her. He's a pig.

I've often wondered if Cersei was molested as a child because she's been so sexual since an abnormally young age. If she was, then I'm darn sure Kevan was the perv.

[Queen of Whores]

I've often wondered if Cersei was molested as a child because she's been so sexual since an abnormally young age. If she was, then I'm darn sure Kevan was the perv.

If she was molested or sexually abused in some way she definitely would have at least vaguely thought about it in her PoV. Also, it seems unlikely she'd allow it to continue. One word to her father and the person who was doing it would be dead. Also, being sexual from a young age doesn't equate to having been sexually abused. Some people just mature and get curious earlier than others.

[sapphire_lion]

Kevan's motives here are clear. His own chapter points them out:

I am aware of all the quotes you've posted. Kevan's goal was to declaw (neutralize) Cersei. It is known. I included that in my post.

I was wondering if Cersei's sexual exploitation of Lancel was also subconsciously motivating Kevan to act against her. I was wondering if Cersei's actions against Kevan's own family worked to set him against Cersei more than he would have otherwise been had she not messed with his son.

[sapphire_lion]

I find her punishment perverted and an abuse of power. Kevan feels this too and that's why he gives himself a pep talk about why he should not feel ashamed.

It bothered me how Kevan fawned over Cersei in earlier books: saying she was as beautiful as the sun and no other woman could compare, especially Lyanna. He recalls her as being a "goddess" in her earlier years, after the walk of shame. But Kevan looked at her during the Walk because he notes her sagging breasts! If he had any decency, he would never have looked at her. He's a pig.

I've often wondered if Cersei was molested as a child because she's been so sexual since an abnormally young age. If she was, then I'm darn sure Kevan was the perv.

There is no textual evidence that Cersei was molested. There is no textual evidence that Kevan was a “funny uncle”. For one, Martin went out of his way to show that Kevan was devoted to and in love with his wife. He never did anything to inappropriately touch Cersei. In fact when she hugged him, he disliked the contact.

She threw her arms around him, kissed his cheek. "Forgive me. Forgive me."

Ser Kevan suffered the embrace for a few heartbeats before he finally raised his own arms to return it. His hug was short and awkward. "Enough," he said, his voice still flat and cold. "You are forgiven.

-ADWD

Kevan saw Cersei as once having been a great beauty, but there was nothing lascivious about it. He noticed her sagginess because he had eyes, and he was noticing that Cersei was not what she once had been. She was no longer a young girl. Her age and drinking had caught up to her.

[Mummers Dragon]

Public nakedness in an of itself doesnt neccessarily equate to sexual degradation, i would tend to place it more in the category of personal humiliation. There is indeed sexism at play in how the rules are unfairly applied based on gender. Points well taken on the double standard, but I would also point out that even if the same punishment applied to men, in most cases, it would not prove to be anything more than a mildly embarrasing experience for most, and soon forgotten. It's the social norms that have developed externally that objectifies the female form in ways the male form is not objectified. Although it is a male driven and dominated society that cultivated this imbalance, there are many woman that are as guilty as men in perpetuating this norm. Both sexes are so indocrinated with this kind of socialization that its difficult to avoid falling victim to it. It takes a very self aware person to move beyond what almost seems instinctive to most..

I will add that Westors is not left without some parallel peril for men accused of sexual impropriety /crime and that is in the form of "gelding". I realize its not an exact parallel in that we are generally talking about much more severe sexual crimes like rape when it comes to that. Which reminds me of Vic's Maester who was the victim of some uninvited buggering.

I hope my words are taken in the spirit that they are meant. My intent was to bring the subject into a broader context and make the point that its not the nakedness, but the attention and reactions the nakedness brings from men, and some women, that add the sexual element to the equation. No, Cersei did not deserve this. It must truly suck to be a woman in a mans world sometimes.

(i did not read all prev post, so i apologize and concur with anyone who may have already made a similar point, but more succinctly)

[fuem]

Lol nah and the freys and ramsays are just as pure as his last name snow.

[Ramsay Gimp]

For the people saying "unjust": does Cersei deserve death, and if she does, how is public nudity and embarrassment worse?

[TheSnape]

When compared to everything she's done, I think that she's gotten off quite lightly so far.

This.

Did Robb and Catelyn deserve to die at the Red Wedding? For all the people harping on about sexism and parading her through the streets, didn't they dump Catelyn's naked body into the river? Isn't that equally sexist? And what about sewing Grey Wind's head onto Robb's body? And this was Cersei's fault, as Tywin was forced to encourage Walder Frey into making the Red Wedding happen, to bring a quick end to the war that would never have happened if she had been able to stop her son beheading Ned Stark. Ultimately making it her fault.

I don't feel any pity towards her whatsoever. She got what she deserved

[Arrax]

In her walk of shame chapter, it seems like Kevan has not told her or left her with any expectation that he will have Tommen appoint Qyburn's champion to the KG. In facthat seems to be a major motivation in agreeing to do this:

Well, she also says that she doesn't trust him at all (no more than she trusts HS). Whatever he might've told her, she clearly isn't convinced that he'd appoint Qyburn's pet as champion. Though I think she's also a bit confused. I don't believe Tommen could help her appointing someone to KG, if (hypothetically) Kevan objects to it. He's the Regent and his word is final, is it not?

[bent branch]

I just want to say that the discussion about whether Kevan was wrong to encourage Cersei to take the walk of shame or not has made me realize that Cersei may actually lose her trial by combat.

First, Kevan was right to encourage Cersei to take the walk if he wanted to be sure she didn't die. The reason for this is that the Faith had physical custody of Cersei and if she lost her trial by combat, they would execute her immediately. The crown wouldn't get her back for the alternative action to take place. That alternative action would be for Tommen to pardon Cersei. They don't want Tommen to pardon Cersei at this point because the charges against her are terrible and a pardon would look like she was guilty. In order for Tommen to retain any legitimacy at all, Cersei really, really needs to be found not guilty. So they are risking trial by combat in order to shore up Tommen's reign. So Kevan wanted to be sure that they had physical custody of Cersei in order to protect her life. The HS, who is convinced of Cersei's guilt, came up with the walk of shame in order to make it very, very hard for Cersei to choose to do what she needed to get out of the custody of the Faith.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Yup, that's double standard all over the place, no denying that.

Let's compare Cersei with Gregor Clegane. His punishment was agonizing death, excruciating pain stretched over, if I'm not mistaken, several weeks. Hers was an hour of public humiliation. Certainly if we're so appalled by her humiliation, shouldn't we be at least as much appalled by prolonged, gruesome torture? Furthermore, both aren't, actually, officially punished for their actual crimes - Cersei's got hers for "wantonness of widows", Clegane got his while being a champion in a trial by combat; ironically, probably the only not dishonorable thing he'd ever done in his life. Both, however, deserve severe punishment for other stuff, other very ugly stuff, yet they managed to avoid legal responsibility for that.

And still, every now and then we'll get a "poor Cersei" thread like this one, with conspicuous lack of "poor Gregor" ones. So agreed, double standards are definitely in play. (As for me, Asshole Victim is asshole victim.)