Bob Sacamano Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Jaime says "He (Joffrey) deserved to die," to Brienne before he sends her off to find Sansa. Now, even being 13, Joff probably deserved to die. He was awful. That being said, why did Jaime think Joffrey deserved to die? The last time Jaime saw his son, Bob was still King, and Joff may have been a little shit, and spoiled, but deserved to die?? I don't think so. Could somewhere deep down believe all his brood deserves to die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BericDondarrion Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Executed Ned when he was promised the wall. Sent an assassin to murder Bran. Cut open a pregnant cat. Bullied Tommen. Lied about Mycah which got him killed. That's just off the top of my head. Joffrey deserved to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Executed Ned when he was promised the wall. Sent an assassin to murder Bran. Cut open a pregnant cat. Bullied Tommen. Lied about Mycah which got him killed.That's just off the top of my head. Joffrey deserved to die.And those were his good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shireen Shireen Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Unless I'm mistaken I think the OP is asking how much of that Jaime would be aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The reason's name is Sansa Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shireen Shireen Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The reason's name is Sansa Stark. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BericDondarrion Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Unless I'm mistaken I think the OP is asking how much of that Jaime would be aware of.Jaime would have known of all of the points I listed as he wasn't captured for them and the cat and Tommen part happened before the series started (except for the Ned part but obviously who else would/could have ordered Ned dead besides the king?! Even Jaime knows that Cersei isn't stupid enough to kill Ned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 Unless I'm mistaken I think the OP is asking how much of that Jaime would be aware of. Yes! I guess the reason I asked is because in ASOS, as Jaime is outside KL and found out about Joff's death and more of he deeds, he thinks to himself "Maybe he is the monster they say he is" (or something to that effect). So, out of all the stuff Jaime knew before Joffrey became King, he didn't think Joffrey was a monster at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt 'n' Gravy Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 For being a bastard born of treason and incest, while daring to call himself a "Baratheon" and sitting on the Iron Throne. The rest is just the icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelor Swyft Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Being born is no crime. For all Joffrey knows, he is a Baratheon. I think Jaime was aware of Joffrey's cruelties as a child and was able to surmise that the horrible things he was hearing of King Joffrey were true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 For being a bastard born of treason and incest, while daring to call himself a "Baratheon" and sitting on the Iron Throne. The rest is just the icing on the cake. Once again, we all agree that Joff deserved death. Question is why did Jaime think he deserved to die? He doesn't recall him being a monster before he became King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelor Swyft Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Once again, we all agree that Joff deserved death. Question is why did Jaime think he deserved to die? He doesn't recall him being a monster before he became King. Do you happen to have the full context at hand? Because I don't recall the rest, but based just on that snippet, I don't think it necessarily means he didn't think of Joff as a monster. "Maybe he is the monster they say he is" could just as easily be coming from a position of "Yeah, I remember what a monster he was like as a kid, so maybe he is the monster they say he is," as it could be coming from the position of "I never saw him as a monster before, but maybe he is the monster they say he is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blow My Horn Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Jaime knows crazy royalty when he sees it. Probably had flashbacks to Mad King Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Wedding Cake Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Beheading Ned Stark and inciting war is terrible rulership, least appreciated by soldiers like Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Word still travels in Westeros... Albeit slow at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Jaime knows he sent the assassin to kill Bran. He tells as much to Tyrion when he releases him from the black cells. I don't remember when and how he put 2 and 2 together, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Jaime knows crazy royalty when he sees it. Probably had flashbacks to Mad King Aerys. He's having the same flashbacks about his sister. Anyway, Jaime was very indifferent about his children, he probably chose not to pay attention to them, but that doesn't mean he wasn't aware, he simply didn't mind. He heard things about Joffrey but probably were incidents he decided to ignore. When the war started, he probably heard all what we know about Joffrey: he cut Ned's head and provoked a war. He first thought he was simply a poor ruler under the thumb of Cersei, then heard all of the stories about him, specially how he beat Sansa Stark. He realised it was better for him to die when he saw how much of a good kid and potentially good king Tommen would make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Executed Ned when he was promised the wall. Sent an assassin to murder Bran. Cut open a pregnant cat. Bullied Tommen. Lied about Mycah which got him killed. That's just off the top of my head. Joffrey deserved to die.And had Sansa beaten by the Kingsguard.Jamie knows or suspects all of these things when he speaks to Brienne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Jaime knows crazy royalty when he sees it. Probably had flashbacks to Mad King Aerys. This. Additionally, I wonder if Jaime knows that Joffrey tried to have Barristan Selmy killed after dismissing him from the Kingsguard. I don't think Jaime cared to become Lord Commander, because his idiot son got rid of the most honourable member of the KG. I'd add everything else that people have mentioned, too, as being reason enough for Jaime to think Joffrey deserved to die. He knows his bastard son was a cunt, and that a cunt who has a sadistic streak with the power of the Iron Throne behind him is a dangerous thing for anyone in said cunt's vicinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ürglõvi Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 By the time Jaime speaks with Brienne, he has been back to KL for awhile and has obviously heard quite a bit about Joff, because he already knows about Sansa's beatings at this point. About the monster thingAnd now he's dead. He pictured Joff lying still and cold with a face black from poison, and still felt nothing. Perhaps he was the monster they claimed. If the Father Above came down to offer him back his son or his hand, Jaime knew which he would choose. I always interpreted that as Jaime thinking he was the monster, because he didn't care about his son's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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