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Anti-Dragon tactics


Waters Gate

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And wildlings shot arrows straight up a 700 foot tall wall. Sometimes even a great series like ASOIAF doesn't make logical sense.

Guerilla warfare in reality is something you resort to once you've tried and failed with every real plan, but surrender for some reason just isn't acceptable. Some people have a romanticized picture of it, however, probably because "reprisals against civilians" is something that never crosses their minds when they think about how the enemy would react.

If you melt away into the deserts/forests with all your troops and refuse to give battle, what's stopping the dragon-armed enemy from simply torching every town and castle in your country that doesn't immediately surrender and switch sides to theirs*? You won't protect them since you are hiding somewhere together with your men, so their only chance of survival is to yield.

*And maybe give the dragonriders some information about where the guerillas have their bases, too...

The only thing stopping them is that they are not Tywin Lannister and they aren't fighting the Reynes of Castamere. If you want to occupy a region, all morality aside, you cannot kill every person who lives there. The strongholds, yes, but not every single village.

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The only thing stopping them is that they are not Tywin Lannister and they aren't fighting the Reynes of Castamere. If you want to occupy a region, all morality aside, you cannot kill every person who lives there. The strongholds, yes, but not every single village.

You don't need to kill everyone. After you burn a couple of castles, and the people sees that their ruler is a useless coward who has abandoned his kingdom to its fate instead of honoring his oaths to protect it, they will start surrendering. Same reason as for why Tywin had to head home when Robb started looting the Westerlands, to use an ASOIAF example of this kind of strategy in action. It's not like Robb would ever would have taken the Rock or Lannisport, or literally killed every Westerlander. But a king who doesn't protect his people is no king at all.

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You don't need to kill everyone. After you burn a couple of castles, and the people see that their ruler is a useless coward who has abandoned his kingdom to its fate instead of honoring his oaths to protect it, they will start surrendering. Same reason for why Tywin had to head home when Robb started looting the Westerlands, to use an ASOIAF example of this kind of strategy in action. It's not like Robb would ever would have taken the Rock or Lannisport, or literally killed every Westerlander. But a king who doesn't protect his people is no king at all.

True, but compare to the BWB, to use another ASOIAF example. The people don't think they are cowards because they know that if they tried to fight they would die. Did anyone ever complain that Beric didn't try to attack Tywin's army? It kind of depends who is left afterwards.

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True, but compare to the BWB, to use another ASOIAF example. The people don't think they are cowards because they know that if they tried to fight they would die. Did anyone ever complain that Beric didn't try to attack Tywin's army? It kind of depends who is left afterwards.

Beric wasn't the ruler of the Riverlands though, Robb and then Edmure were, and by ADWD we have indeed seen almost every castle and house surrender and swear fealty to king Tommen instead. The only reason for why the BWB is even a factor anymore is because the Lannister alliance is breaking apart due to Tywin dying, Cersei being an idiot and other things.

This is not saying that guerilla warfare can never get anything done though, just that it has huge flaws compared to fighting conventionally. Especially in a medieval world where a king's or lord's hold over his own territory is uncertain even in the best of times, and especially when the enemy has giant flying dragons that you won't be able to ambush or harass with guerilla fighters.

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Yeah, it does have limitations. But if it is the only option, then it is preferable to the alternative. Especially if the enemy is burning the towns and slaughtering the people. That is what really makes guerilla warfare work, when the people support you. Dragons torching entire cities tends to get the countryside to fight with you.


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Its a thread about anti-dragon tactics. Said so in the title. Think you can defeat a dragon or an army with a dragon with a clever trick?

Here is an idea of mine. Attack the dragonlords during a storm. How opperational are dragons during tornado's? How well does their dragonfire work trough pouring rain? I never thought i'd cherish the day that we got that 12 Bofors.

Argilac Durrandon tried that. The dragon landed and fought the army on land. The Targaryen won, with some effort.

How would Wile E Coyote handle this i ask myself?

We take a roasted mammoth, we stuff it full of lead and place it in a field where dragons like to hunt. If the dragon still manages to lift up after swollowing it up whole, well maybe it will die of lead poisening....

Poison could do the trick, if you can give it to the dragon while its rider is away (any dragonrider would suspect something if the enemy tries to fed his dragon before the battle :P ).

20% manning the ships, equipped with catapults and stored fresh water to boil. 20% left to just use as distraction if necessary but with the cold weather and winds I literally cannot imagine a dragon surviving the first volley. The change being too quick and the area of effect too large to avoid.

Catapults and trebuchets are siege weapons that are very slow to move, aim and reload. They would be useless against a dragon, like trying to hit a plane with a wrecking ball.

The only thing stopping them is that they are not Tywin Lannister and they aren't fighting the Reynes of Castamere. If you want to occupy a region, all morality aside, you cannot kill every person who lives there. The strongholds, yes, but not every single village.

If you go to war, you can't count on your enemy to be civilized and benevolent as part of your strategy. You must be prepared for the worst.

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This is tough man....when they are in the air, your chance of success at bringing them down with a projectile are extremely not- seemingly not worth putting a large number of soldiers at risk.



In the Princess and the Queen/ Blacks and Greens, your best chances were using another dragon, or taking 'em down when they were on land or unable to fly.


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Due to their nature as... well, dragons, there's a few vulnerable periods. For one, they're not in the air 24/7. Two were killed in the Dragonpit by simple melee weapons (an axe to the head, and a spear to the eye), another was killed in its lair, and a final one was killed trying to break the dragonpit to get free, so if you catch them chained to the ground, or in an enclosed area, they're beatable by recklessly brave peasant mobs. Likewise, Syrax was in the air above the city, but riderless, and was brought down by ranged weaponry.



Dragons are great force-multipliers and weapons of intimidation, but a determined opponent with a plan can bring them down. The big thing though is that any plan to kill a dragon, like Cole's at Rook's Nest, is unreliable at best. You -can- take down a dragon, but that's not a sure thing. They may not have a Smaug-esque weak point to shoot with a black arrow, but depending on their age, size, and strength, you can wound or kill them with a barrage of even lighter projectiles.



When accompanied by armies, dragons can't be beat as a form of support, and the addition of a ground force makes it more of a challenge to execute an anti-dragon strategy.



So yeah, heavy ground weaponry, fighting them alone, using other dragons, or catching them without a rider or chained up on the ground all seem to apply.


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And wildlings shot arrows straight up a 700 foot tall wall. Sometimes even a great series like ASOIAF doesn't make logical sense.

The few arrows that reached the top of the Wall were lifted to the top of the wall by wind. And the flaw there doesn't lie in the military aspects, but because GRRM had no idea that 700 feet was that high.

Guerilla warfare in reality is something you resort to once you've tried and failed with every real plan, but surrender for some reason just isn't acceptable. Some people have a romanticized picture of it, however, probably because "reprisals against civilians" is something that never crosses their minds when they think about how the enemy would react.

Surrender wasn't acceptable. The Dornish hate all the invaders, but Valyrians most of all. Read the TWOIAF sample.

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Am i nuts in thinking maybe the winds of of winter sample tyrion chaper shows one of the better strategies?


It describes one of the dragons snatching the corpses the trebuchets are throwing in mid air...maybe diseased and/or posioned meat is the best way to go.


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Maybe one should pour barbeque herbs over dragons. Dragons are fire made flesh, add some barbeque herbs and maybe they wil start to smell mighty tastefully to eachother?

The Faceless Men have a poison that does that. They used it on Weese's dog to make it eat him.

Here is an idea of mine. Attack the dragonlords during a storm. How opperational are dragons during tornado's? How well does their dragonfire work trough pouring rain? I never thought i'd cherish the day that we got that 12 Bofors.

Argilac tried that in the Last Storm. It didn't go so well for him.

Overall:

1. Shoot them in the eyes.

2. Get a dragon of your own.

3. Magic of some sort.

EDIT:

4. Catch them on the ground.

5. Poison or grayscale.

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If you go to war, you can't count on your enemy to be civilized and benevolent as part of your strategy. You must be prepared for the worst.

That was my point. Morality aside, you cannot kill everyone in the region because then there is no reason to be taking the region. Being civilized isn't counted on. I am counting on them wanting to conquer the region. That means the people as well as the land.

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I would make metal crossbow quarrels and a bunch of crossbows. Give them to about 250 of my best marksmen and have them bait the dragon. When it comes close, everybody aim for the mouth. As soon as it tries to torch them, they shoot. The steel quarrels should hold together long enough without melting to pierce the dragon's throat. Unfortunately this requires losing my crossbowmen most likely. And they would need to be insanely disciplined. Unsullied, anyone?


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Scorpions, crossbows, archers, spears, pretty much any ranged attack. If you fill a dragons wings full of enough arrows, he will eventually fall, then spearmen for the brain to finish it off. The range of a dragons fire is probably not as far as bows, scorpions and archers. Look at the attack on Drogon for example; the dragons are still relatively weak imo, Probably a few hundred spread out archers/crossbowmen/spearmen can easily take out a dragon and a few scorpion bolts can probably critically wound it.


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