Queen in the North?

[UtherSnow]

Sansa will evolve into a Northern Queen? Perhaps her daughter will. She's Lady Lannister, and by default has Casterly Rock, and all the gold. I feel she will meet her Knight in Shining Armour, her Fairy-tale prince. (Glamoured? I think not.)

Tyrion will adore the girl when she's born. He will be the most doting father ever, without spoiling the child.

Bran is where Bran needs to be. He'll become King of The Undergrowth - The Realm of CotF, with Meera.

Rickon, even if he's gone like Lord of The Flies renegade, will return to Winterfell as Lord, probably of The North. Perhaps Shereen will become betrothed to him.

Arya? It's a tough one with her. She'll be the one involved in a bittersweet ending. She'll still be with Faceless Men but, there will be many twists because of those faces she has to wear. As counter to Beric, Arya will 'collect lives and experiences' through those faces.

Jon will become a King, but not the King In The North. I like the idea of someone using the wildling tradition of bloke chasing lass, dodging her folks. But who would be Queen? (Is this where 'Heroes' hints with its words?)

There are balances all over the place in this world and in Westeros & Essos. Black & White. Night & Day. etc.... Applying this, if R'hlor is the LORD of Light, does it sound feasible and a balance for The Great Other to be the LADY of Dark? She reverses the Wildling Way, and chases, romantically, Jon. He surrenders? Nope! Jon makes a pact. He'll wed her out of duty, for peace. He sacrifices himself to show her he means it. For The Realm!! Jon's last words. (Jon kills The Boy.)

She awakens The Man with a kiss. Thus, Aemon's last advice to Jon becomes a prophecy. Let The Man be born....

If Jon kills himself, he can't very well bring himself to life again.

With this kiss..... Jon will transform.... the ulitmate reveal that he is Rhaegar's son after all.

Meanwhile.... elsewhere.... Cersei fears dragons will burn her, so she kills Tommen before she kills herself.... But not before Jaime bursts the door down, snatches at the bottle, misses and chokes Cersei instead. Full of remorse.....? Here is where it will be revealed how close they are. They are true twins. Whatever one feels the other does, when they're close together. They were together in their mother's womb, in one sac but separate chords. The more Jaime chokes Cersei, the more he's choking himself. Killing her, even by a weird twist of fate while trying to stop her, he kills himself.

Brienne becomes one of the Royalguard. (Reformed version of Kingsguard, amalgam with Queensguard - it'd be confusing so they bring it all together, heralding in a new era.)

Varys? Whispers get louder. There are spiders seen..... Birds enjoy spiders. Yum! Yum! How grizzly!

LF? He'll run into problems when his plans become too complex and begin to unravel around him? Sweetrobin's twin brother will see to it that LF gets everything. "Jeyne Poole sends her warmest regards, Uncle Petyr." LF has this annoying habit. He plays up his own shadow, He's Peter Pan, who refuses to grow up. Sweetrobin's twin brother? It's his face. No, not Arya wearing it. LF isn't on her list. A random boy, with a face easily forgotten. A real nobody (aka No One). The Iron Bank collecting its due?

Dany? Betrayed by Drogon? A pair of dragons haven't forgiven Dany for locking them up and not going to see them. Evil Mother! Bad Mother!

Margaery is the Queen who was never Crowned. The Virgin Queen. Renly didn't get round to that duty. Neither did Joffrey. Tommen? Has he even reached puberty yet? Three strikes! You're outa here! She is a parallel to Elizabeth I, Henry VII's daughter and heir.

Arianne.... is almost Mary, Queen of Scots. What if Areo beheads her with that axe?

And happiness reigned all year round.... Here we all are, sitting in a rainbow!!

How does Jon find out who he is? How about Rhaegar telling all about Lyanna? It was Arthur Dayne who Robert killed at The Trident. Rubies? One is missing? Meaning, glamour stays in place. Rhaegar isn't Mance Rayder. Who likes twists? Alester Thorne is a constant thorn in Jon's side. He never makes life rosy for Jon. "Lord Snow. Lord Eddard Stark's Bastard." No? No? It can't be?

I'm sure there's an ace to be played by GRRM.

What could the final line be that GRRM has written, and has laid clue after clue, red herrings too? Supposedly very Star Wars? "Jon, I am your....." No?! No?! The ribbon ran out! Too Star Wars. How about....?

Jon asks, who is my father and mother? A distant voice, distant in memory, keeping a promise..... Listen while I sing for you, a song of ice and fire.

[Minuteman]

I didn't say that Jon will inherit the IT only that by his (presumed) lineage he may be the rightful heir depending on whether or not R and L were married. By becoming KitN he doesn't necessarily take Winterfell from Rickon (assuming he is alive) as the Lord of Winterfell and the KitN are two distinct titles. Bran is the greenseer so he's out of the picture. My point on Robb's will and Jon's (presumed) lineage is that he is in a position as rightful heir to everything to marshal the divided kingdoms against the Others. Perhaps he dies. Perhaps he abdicates or removes himself from succession after the Others are resolved. Regardless I think the the rulership of the North is more important to the story than whomever sits the IT is. I suspect in the end the North and the IT part ways. But the Northern crown won't go to one of the girls because women don't rule - it simply isn't their function in Westeros. Even if Sansa or Arya keep Winterfell it will be lorded over by whichevers husband or a council until a son comes of age. One of the Stark girls becomes QitN only by marriage. Otherwise the most they can hope for is being a regent until a male issue comes of age and then his wife will be QitN.

[The Undead Martyr]

I didn't say that Jon will inherit the IT only that by his (presumed) lineage he may be the rightful heir depending on whether or not R and L were married. By becoming KitN he doesn't necessarily take Winterfell from Rickon (assuming he is alive) as the Lord of Winterfell and the KitN are two distinct titles. Bran is the greenseer so he's out of the picture. My point on Robb's will and Jon's (presumed) lineage is that he is in a position as rightful heir to everything to marshal the divided kingdoms against the Others. Perhaps he dies. Perhaps he abdicates or removes himself from succession after the Others are resolved. Regardless I think the the rulership of the North is more important to the story than whomever sits the IT is. I suspect in the end the North and the IT part ways. But the Northern crown won't go to one of the girls because women don't rule - it simply isn't their function in Westeros. Even if Sansa or Arya keep Winterfell it will be lorded over by whichevers husband or a council until a son comes of age. One of the Stark girls becomes QitN only by marriage. Otherwise the most they can hope for is being a regent until a male issue comes of age and then his wife will be QitN.

Disagree. Post series Arya or Sansa is not going to be a mere baby machine, misogyny or no.

There were female rulers in the Middle Ages, people!

As a side note, Sansa could totally be an Isabella in the future.

[The Santa of House Claus]

I disagree about questions surrounding Robb's will. If the KitN/QitN has any relevance then it must come through recognition that Robb Stark was KitN. That being the case there really isn't any disputing the validity or force of his will, not by the North anyway which is all that matters. The Blackfish was witness to that and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he were to show up to inform Jon of Robb's will and to deliver the actual will to Jon. Both Blackfish and the will were last seen in Riverrun and I figure GRRM allowed his escape from there for a reason.

Of the question is not about Robb's legitimacy as KITN, it is about whether or not Jon was, in the end, named as heir. We all assume he was, but that is not proven. Was the Blackfish witness? I believe the only reference to the Will was on route to the wedding and the Blackfish was not there then, he was still at Riverrun. That is where the other question comes from, on whether or not a copy and knowledge of the will is out there. Again, it is assumed it has, but that is not proven either.

[Pod The Impaler]

The thing is, if Arya wants to be a Stark she has to find a place in the Game. People are already using her identity against her family and she is not even there! She cannot opt out and be Arya Stark. I think that come the end of the series her family will be on top and to some degree they will protect each other with their skills. Arya doesn't have to become a skilled game player, she has other skills and will be able to play many parts.

Looking at how Varys describes Aegon:

He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be- Arya has trained with Syrio and the faceless men of Braavos

He reads and writes- as does Arya

he speaks several tongues- Arya knows the common tongue, decent Braavosi and is on her way to good High Valyrian

he has studied history and law and poetry- Arya is said to have learned these with her Septa and as for law, see below about law and justice

A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them- Arya's Septa did this but she is a believer in the old gods and knows of R'hllor

He has lived with fisherfolk- Cat of the Canals

worked with his hands- All the damn time

swum in rivers- Like a fish

mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need- basically led a self sufficient existence

He can fish and cook and bind up a wound- and again, she can live out in the wild and survive

he knows what it is like to be hungry- Yep

to be hunted- Yep

to be afraid- yep

Aegon knows that kingship is his duty- As Arya saw it as her duty to kill Dareon as a Stark

that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them- No character understands the common man more than Arya Stark

Varys should be Team Arya. Arya has all the qualities Varys believes a King should have but he's misguided that Aegon actually has them. Are we meant to agree with Varys? I think so. If this is the perfect ruler then who is on a journey to rule? Or do the right people never get the job?

Arya knows that justice doesn't work in her world. So she has taken it upon herself to be real justice. We can argue about whether that is right or not but she's not going around stabbing innocent people for fun, that is a misrepresentation.

Yup. This comparison has been made before. AND the Visenya one also.

This is a perfect example what is so silly about a lot of "it's all about Jon, and he will rule everything!" theories.

First off, I believe legitimized bastards come aftertheir trueborn siblings.

Thirdly, Jon is not heir to anything unless/until he gets released from the NW.

Not to mention he already refused legitimization and Winterfell when he didn't know Bran and Rickon were alive and when Sansa and Arya weren't in the picture, and when it only involved marrying someone he does not see as a sister (Val).

I think you'd be wrong about legitimization - if legitimized as Eddard's son, it goes to birth order in relation to the father. He may even be his father's first son, depending on when he was born compared to Robb...

... if he is Eddard's son at all. I happen to believe he is Lyanna's son, and therefore, whatever claim he would have on Winterfell is one that would still come after all of Eddard's children. (An adopted nephew comes after one's trueborn children.)

The vows to the Watch are the biggest obstacle. The reason is because those are his own words, his own oath. Oathbreaking is a worse offense than usurpation.

[Pod The Rod]

Robb was so desperate when he made that will, he didn't even stop to think that he was taking upon himself the power to release Jon from vows Jon had sworn to the Old Gods.

[Arya Targaryen]

Robb was so desperate when he made that will, he didn't even stop to think that he was taking upon himself the power to release Jon from vows Jon had sworn to the Old Gods.

But he didn't. He explicitely says, that if he sends a 100 men to the Watch, he is sure that the Watch will find a way to release Jon. That means, that since Jon swore to the Watch, the Watch can release him (at least that's the theory) Like, the Old Bear, and the other officers could have sit down and discuss whether it is worth it. I think they would have released Jon. The tricky thing is, now Jon is the LC. He probably can't release himself.

ETA:

He didn't swore to the Gods, but in front of the Gods, to the Watch, I think there might be a difference.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Disagree. Post series Arya or Sansa is not going to be a mere baby machine, misogyny or no.

There were female rulers in the Middle Ages, people!

As a side note, Sansa could totally be an Isabella in the future.

Sansa doesn't have the military brain to be an Isabella, Isabella went on the front lines while pregnant! Something she passed on to her daughter, Catherine of Aragon defeated the scottish while Henry VIII was in France. Sansa is more the Elizabeth I type, great PR person. Everyone remembers Elizabeth I even if her deeds don't back it up, few remember Isabella despite her victories. Kind of funny, how everyone remembers Elizabeth's mother Anne for doing nothing more than get someone to marry her, and Isabella's daughter Catherine who was queen as long as all the other 5 women combined and ruled alone for a time gets cast as a spurned wife in Anne's story.

[Pod The Rod]

But he didn't. He explicitely says, that if he sends a 100 men to the Watch, he is sure that the Watch will find a way to release Jon. That means, that since Jon swore to the Watch, the Watch can release him (at least that's the theory) Like, the Old Bear, and the other officers could have sit down and discuss whether it is worth it. I think they would have released Jon. The tricky thing is, now Jon is the LC. He probably can't release himself.

ETA:

He didn't swore to the Gods, but in front of the Gods, to the Watch, I think there might be a difference.

You are misunderstanding here. The point is that the Gods are, well, GODS. No mortal man has the power to contravene an oath sworn to them. Be that Robb, or Mormont, or Moon Boy, if you are a believer in the Gods of the First Men, once you have knelt in front of a heart tree there is literally no way that you can ever be free save death.

No. Swearing in front of the Gods and to them is effectively the same thing. You are invoking them as witnesses and as authority for the vows you have made.

[Hugorfonics]

I see both with potential to be a queen.

As of right now the Lady of Winterfell by King Tommens decree is Arya. If she comes back to Westeros she legally has power. Plus Nymeria could prove who she is. Arya never wanted to be a wife or a proper lady but that doesn't mean she doesn't help the innocent like Weasel and execute NW run aways like Doran or act like a leader with hot pie and Gendry.

Sansa is the eldest Stark and if Dany claims the throne she might let a woman trump her baby brother. Especially if tyrion remains faithful to sansa and befriends dany. Also sansas groomed for a life of politics. And she is probably the young and beautiful queen to take out Cersei and the 3rd queen Petyr was talking about

[Roose on the Loose]

The POV pattern is that George does not use rulers as POV when they are already ruling when they become POVs. Dany is the Princess of Dragonstone in exile in the beginning of AGoT, and Cersei is only a queen consort and later regent for Joffrey and Tommen. She never sits the Iron Throne, nor does she rule in her own right over the Seven Kingdoms.

But I'd not see that as a general rule. Ned was never king, but he ruled as Lord of Winterfell over the whole North. We can make no predictions about the end of the story from that, or whether some POVs may proclaim themselves kings or sit the Iron Throne (for a time).

Although I'd say that if we get additional POVs - a Tyrell perhaps? - it is more likely that we'll get Alerie, Loras, Margaery, Garlan, or Willas rather than Mace or Olenna, as George really seems to like to portray most rulers from the outside rather than the inside.

But it is actually interesting to get ruler POVs with Cersei, Jon, and Dany in AFfC/ADwD rather than the plotter POVs surrounding them, as this makes the reader as ignorant about the plots and threats they are facing than characters themselves - and this can build up tension.

If that were so, Stannis, Viserys, Euron, Joff, Tommen and Robb would all be eligible for POVs. Robb's POV chapters are conspicuous by their absence. No Kings is a simpler more intuitive rule, and does a better job of accounting for who doesn't get a POV.

[Roose on the Loose]

The POV pattern is that George does not use rulers as POV when they are already ruling when they become POVs. Dany is the Princess of Dragonstone in exile in the beginning of AGoT, and Cersei is only a queen consort and later regent for Joffrey and Tommen. She never sits the Iron Throne, nor does she rule in her own right over the Seven Kingdoms.

But I'd not see that as a general rule. Ned was never king, but he ruled as Lord of Winterfell over the whole North. We can make no predictions about the end of the story from that, or whether some POVs may proclaim themselves kings or sit the Iron Throne (for a time).

Although I'd say that if we get additional POVs - a Tyrell perhaps? - it is more likely that we'll get Alerie, Loras, Margaery, Garlan, or Willas rather than Mace or Olenna, as George really seems to like to portray most rulers from the outside rather than the inside.

But it is actually interesting to get ruler POVs with Cersei, Jon, and Dany in AFfC/ADwD rather than the plotter POVs surrounding them, as this makes the reader as ignorant about the plots and threats they are facing than characters themselves - and this can build up tension.

2 feudal Lords: Ned, Jon Con and 4 King's Hands: Ned, Jon Con, Tyrion, Davos get chapters. Only characters who proclaim themselves King are frozen out. Every Greyjoy but Balon and Euron gets a POV, Neither Balon nor Euron claim to be King in AGOT.

Another group that may be excluded are serious players: LF, Varys, Tywin, Doran. But that's harder to define.

[Lord Varys]

Well, Robb was never important. He was doomed very early on. Him having some chapters in ACoK could have been interesting but it wouldn't have added anything to the overall story, especially after he was reunited with Cat in ASoS.

Davos was especially created to have a POV to show Stannis without writing from Stannis' POV.

But those rules are not set in stone. If the story demands it, George will make a character a POV which does not fit those criteria.

I could see Stannis or Euron becoming POVs if they are doing stuff important for story development but all POVs surrounding them have left or died (for instance, if both Theon and Asha die in th coming battle or are separated from Stannis).

Varys, Illyrio, Littlefinger, Doran Howland Reed etc. make little sense as POV in the first half of the book, but I'd not dismiss the possibility that we could, for instance, get Littlefinger's death scene from his own POV in a later Epilogue. When the series is (nearly) concluded there is no reason to remain tight-lipped about what he may or may not have known.

Before ADwD came out, many people considered it very unlikely or outlandish that Melisandre could ever become a POV due to her knowledge.