Am I alone in thinking Doran is in on the poisoning?

[John Suburbs]

I agree! This is my post from another thread:

after Doran says I wish you a safe journey home, he then looks at Ellaria and nods to her... she instantly approaches to Myrcella and kisses her. I now ask myself if it was done with Dorans consent? Then it would seem legit when in episode 9 Ellaria bend the knee... he did tell her: I dont believe in third chances. But question stays: why would he send Trystane with them if he planned to kill Myrcella? Maybe he will blame it on Ellaria and Snakes and tell to Iron Throne that 4 of them are outlaws and will be hunted down(I presume that they are leaving Dorne for some other mission that Doran gave them so it all will be convenient for him). Then Trystane will be out of harms way, especially for two reasons: Jaime gave his word to Doran that he will take Oberyns place in small council and second... boy have no clue about this plan and loved Myrcella for real. In this way, 1. he have some revenge for Elia, her childen and Oberyn and 2. his man on the place of power(what are his intentions for politics of KL we have yet to see). It may be out of character for book Doran... but when we see how they butchered other characters it can easily be truth. Personally, I can accept this outcome... everything is better then Ellaria going rouge and having no Dorans plan for revenge from books. But, knowing how simple D&D are, it is probably out of they reach to think of something like this :)

:agree: This is the only way I can see Doran being involved: he will double-cross Ellaria and the Sand Snakes by sending their heads to KL as atonement. That way, he can plead innocence to the murder plot while still preventing a blood tie to the Lannisters and removing a pesky internal political problem as well. But he is still taking an awful risk here. If Tyrstane loses his head before Doran can make his amends, then the Martell line is done since Doran doesn't seem to be in any shape to produce a new heir.

I also find it inconceivable that Doran is not fully aware of the possibility of a poison being delivered by a kiss, so even if he just nodded to Ellaria so she could make some kind of apology to Myrcella it still strains credulity to think he did not know what was going on when she leaned in for the kiss and would have stopped it if he wanted to.

[dayumark]

I don't think he has anything to do with that.

https://youtu.be/ik7yNvqrGvw

[Elric of Melnibone]

Well its Dorans boat with his men on it, Jaimie isn't a fighter anymore with one hand, so I don't see how Trystane is at risk, unless the boat actually goes to Kings Landing. Now if the boat is actually going to Mereen and Dany, with Jaimie as a gift for the rightful Queen with a marriage offer from Trystane, that would make sense if you think Doran approved the hit on Myrcella. Bronn might have been bought off by the Martells, therefore Jaimie is really a prisoner with no help in sight. I suppose that Kevan might have gotten a raven from Jaimie announcing the arrangement that was made with Doran but Doran can always say the boat was lost in a storm and TYene and Nym might be sent to KIngs Landing to stall and cause problems just like they were in the books.

I agree with this angle

Doran seems overly deferential to Jaime and the Lannisters/Tommen after capturing Jaime. That made me suspicious it was all an act

Ellaria's awful tantrum in the scene in his court could be explained as all a big show-- that would explain her awful melodramatic acting as well

Ellaria swears to Doran under threat of death now

Doran's nod to Ellaria doesn't make sense otherwise

Finally, he really does hate the Lannisters (they still murdered Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon, and now Oberyn is dead after getting Mountain's confession)

I think this is all a setup by Doran -- sending Trystane to KL wouldn't make sense, but there would be zero reason for the ship to keep going to KL now after Myrcella was murdered on route under his watch anyway

I think this was all a ruse to get Jaime on a ship, and reroute to Mereen as theorized-- now he can present Trystane (in the Quentyn role ) to Dany with Jaime, the man who killed her father while his Kingsguard

It actually makes a fair amount of sense, and closes the circle with some loose ends from the book with Quentyn, fAegon, etc

[hallam]

wait so trystane is still going to kings landing even though mrycella was murdered?

how does this even make sense?

Jamie agreed that Tristane would take Oberlyn's place on the high council. Any attack on Tristane would start a war that the Lannisters don't want either.

[lsdjesus]

I've thought about it again.

What does Doran have to gain from Myrcella's demise?

Nothing. She's his only political leverage against the Lannisters. Killing her while Tommen is still on the throne makes no sense. I could definitely see him do something like that if Myrcella was the last "Baratheon" alive and already wed to Trystane, but not now.

Unless the ship was never meant to go to King's Landing. (And I could hardly imagine a Dornish crew sailing all the way there with what just happened, although that point could be completely omitted...)

If the ship changes course (to, say, Meereen), then there is no way Doran wasn't in on it, and Jaime's the one in trouble. (And if that's the case, I think Bronn has already been bought by the Dornish.) And then, it actually makes sense for Doran to do something like that. The news aren't likely to reach King's Landing until it is too late for them, and Dorne already has Dany's army on its side. (Of course, he doesn't know about Tyrion being in Meereen, so it might not go as well as planned.)

[Mingolla]

We can write here elaborate theories as we did when we heard that Jaime is going to Dorne and Arianne is not cast. But you have seen Dorne in the season 5. It is almost safe bet that the writers will choose the most simplistic, ilogical and least satisfying solution. In this case it mean Doran is a good guy with no plan and Trystane is going to KL where he is going to be murdered by Cersei.

Remember this show is all about Lannisters + 2 shining heroes Jon and Dany. Besides them the writers care only about Stark sisters. It was naive to expect that Dorne will be anything else then a background for Jaime/Bronn wacky adventures. We did not even get Northern or Mereneese politics, which are strongly connected to the main characters, so in retrospect it is not so suprising that writers dont give a shit about Dorne and that they did not include anything from the books expect few names attached to characters with little resemblance to their book version.

[Son_of_Feanor]

From a visual narrative standpoint, it doesn't make sense. If Doran had been involved, they should have shown him with the Sand Snakes on the dock as Ellaria takes the antidote. He was notably absent, as was Hotah. Perhaps Ellaria and her daughters offed them as well? I kid, I kid...

I am curious about how D&D will handle this development, though. As others have pointed out, the ship is still only about 15 minutes from shore. It could easily turn back. If that happens, what is the play for the Sand Snakes and Doran? How will Trystane react, since he seemed to genuinely love Myrcella? I would not rule out the possibility that Doran foresaw this betrayal and sent the antidote with Trystane. This would certainly buy the Lannister's trust. ("I knew I had to get your...niece...out of Dorne. She would never be safe here.") Who knows? I certainly hope that D&D have thought this through enough to realize how foolish it would be for Doran to send Trystane into the Lannister's clutches without a VERY good plan.

The idea of a double cross that sends Trystane to Mereen to woo Dany is appealing in some ways. It would tie the Dorne and Targaryen restoration plots together in just the kind of economical way that D&D seem to love (no more characters introduced, no Quentyn the dragon tamer, etc.). It would be a surprising reveal of Doran's deviousness: "Here, O Queen, is a son of Westeros worthy of being your consort. And here is yet another Lannister as a gift." From the show's perspective, what could be better than re-uniting Jaime and Bronn with Tyrion? Hmmm...I can almost convince myself to get behind this twist....

One thing I don't like about it is that it seems to slightly contradict Maggy the Frog's prophecy to Cersei, which implied that Cersei's children would all die as monarchs ("Gold shall be their crowns..."). Again, D&D may have decided to "economize" on the prophecy as well.

[tullster]

He gives the green light to kill Myrcella, and handing his son and heir to the Lannisters in the process? How stupid would that be?

Very stupid, which is why they are going to Mereen instead. I think the guys here have nailed it.

Dany becomes Tyrstane's betrothed. Lannister is a sinking ship, Martell understands this. Better to hitch to a lady who has dragons.

[Jubal]

From a visual narrative standpoint, it doesn't make sense. If Doran had been involved, they should have shown him with the Sand Snakes on the dock as Ellaria takes the antidote. He was notably absent, as was Hotah. Perhaps Ellaria and her daughters offed them as well? I kid, I kid...

I am curious about how D&D will handle this development, though. As others have pointed out, the ship is still only about 15 minutes from shore. It could easily turn back. If that happens, what is the play for the Sand Snakes and Doran? How will Trystane react, since he seemed to genuinely love Myrcella? I would not rule out the possibility that Doran foresaw this betrayal and sent the antidote with Trystane. This would certainly buy the Lannister's trust. ("I knew I had to get your...niece...out of Dorne. She would never be safe here.") Who knows? I certainly hope that D&D have thought this through enough to realize how foolish it would be for Doran to send Trystane into the Lannister's clutches without a VERY good plan.

The idea of a double cross that sends Trystane to Mereen to woo Dany is appealing in some ways. It would tie the Dorne and Targaryen restoration plots together in just the kind of economical way that D&D seem to love (no more characters introduced, no Quentyn the dragon tamer, etc.). It would be a surprising reveal of Doran's deviousness: "Here, O Queen, is a son of Westeros worthy of being your consort. And here is yet another Lannister as a gift." From the show's perspective, what could be better than re-uniting Jaime and Bronn with Tyrion? Hmmm...I can almost convince myself to get behind this twist....

One thing I don't like about it is that it seems to slightly contradict Maggy the Frog's prophecy to Cersei, which implied that Cersei's children would all die as monarchs ("Gold shall be their crowns..."). Again, D&D may have decided to "economize" on the prophecy as well.

Perhaps "crowns" refers to their heads? There's an old expression round my way that to "crown" someone can mean to hit them over the head. In that case "gold shall be their crowns" could be a reference to the fact that Cersei's three children will have golden hair, as opposed to all the rest of Robert's children.

[Ashlesha]

Ellaria kissed Doran's serpant ring to show her submission. I think Doran is pretty much on to it. It is very subtle as Ollena poisoning Jofferey.

[Anak Bulaclac]

Ellaria kissed Doran's serpant ring to show her submission. I think Doran is pretty much on to it. It is very subtle as Ollena poisoning Jofferey.

That ring is poison. :drool:

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Elaria basically committed suicide by doing that so I'm wondering why she took the antidote unless Doran was in on it.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Perhaps "crowns" refers to their heads? There's an old expression round my way that to "crown" someone can mean to hit them over the head. In that case "gold shall be their crowns" could be a reference to the fact that Cersei's three children will have golden hair, as opposed to all the rest of Robert's children.

That's exactly what it means. Gold is their hair color, and it's significant because "the seed is strong" and if they were Robert's kids their hair would be black or brown.

[calo760]

I see Myercellas murder as the catalyst in which will return Jamie back to the dark side. I think Trystane is pretty much screwed. I sure as hell wouldn't join teh small council if I were him. If jamie doesnt kill him Cersei will. Though I am really hoping that he gets eaten by a dragon.

[lsdjesus]

Thought about it once again overnight.

Sending Trystane to Meereen with Jaime just makes so much sense.

Her father's killer would be a logical gift to Dany.

And Trystane's failure could actually be more logical than Quentyn's, as he will find Tyrion governing the city instead of Daenerys (something Doran (or Trystane) could hardly have anticipated). So the Martell son would fail because of hideously bad luck, rather than sheer stupidity.

This may be why they decided to keep the Lannister brothers on good terms.

[Mister Stoneheart]

Hmmm...and then Trystane goes snooping to find himself some dragons, opens the chamber to get at them, and turns into Quentyn Crisp (what a drag!)....

...that could happen...especially if Laurel and Hardy feel a need to put Jaime someplace since he will no longer be confronting LSH.

[Drasanil]

Of course, this all relies on the notion that Ding and Dong put actual thought into their narrative. So I wouldn't be placing bets on it panning out.

[lsdjesus]

Of course, this all relies on the notion that Ding and Dong put actual thought into their narrative. So I wouldn't be placing bets on it panning out.

D&D are not perfect, but they are not as dumb as some people on this forum. Some of their adaptation choices have been pretty clever. When I watched season 3 with my unsullied family, they were surprised when I told them that Thoros' god, who had just resurrected Beric was the same as Melisandre's god.

-Are are we supposed to know?, they asked.

-Well, fire is involved in everything, and they say "For the night is dark and full of terrors", I answered.

-Sorry for having a life and not noticing every small detail.

A few episodes later, Melisandre appears and makes the connection very clear. And D&D can make Stannis' story follow its natural path without casting an additional actor for the part of a bastard no show-only viewer would care about.

That being said, I am somewhat confused about their intentions while writing the Dorne arc this season. If we never see anymore of it, then it is almost completely useless. Yet the casting calls described Doran as the new major player. And they upgraded Indira Varma to the starring cast, which would suggest that we will see her again. Not to mention that no villainous character yet has just disappeared with no follow-up (apart from Walder Frey). So I believe Dorne still has a part to play, and that season 5's Dornish plot was mostly an introduction to the setting.

Doran's nod is also a clue that there could be more to it. And Ellaria's plan, if it is what it seems, is unbelievably stupid, and a Dornish political suicide, calling for the fall of House Martell. I don't believe D&D to be that dumb. (I might be wrong, though.)

[Drasanil]

Doran's nod is also a clue that there could be more to it. And Ellaria's plan, if it is what it seems, is unbelievably stupid, and a Dornish political suicide, calling for the fall of House Martell. I don't believe D&D to be that dumb. (I might be wrong, though.)

Previous to this season I would have definitely given them the benefit of the doubt. But S5 was a mess of contrivances where things happened just because as opposed to making any sense. Its not a question of the adaptation being faithful or not. It's a question of the show's own plots not being able to stand on their own legs. In that light Ellaria poisoning Myrcella just because, is the most plausible explanation. Since that was the reason for most everything else happening this season.

Attributing some grand conspiracy to the whole thing, when many/most plot points in this season were just as contrived seems silly.

[Baron Bazunor the Twisted]

I made a comment a few days ago in this thread completely shutting down the idea.

I re-read and saw the theories regarding taking Jamie as a hostage to Meereen. That'd be pretty awesome actually. I'm hoping for this now. Though still the unlikely choice tbh.