What if Robert set aside Cersei?

[purple-eyes]

Renly tried to make Robert set aside Cersei and remarry Margarey. 

Since Robert disliked Cersei so much so I guess he must be willing to do it. 

then he will have a firm support from the reach. 

if he declared that he set aside Cersei, will there be a war between Westerlands and iron throne?

I think he probably can win this war with the help of north, riverlands, reach and stormland. 

(And I am pretty sure after margarey became queen and get a kid, they will try to remove Joff and tommen too. it is not enough to be just second queen, they needed a future king to seal this deal. )

 

 

 

[redtree]

I assume this case only about setting aside with none of the Lannister bastard issue

He could try to set her aside and definitely would get support from the Reach but i'm not sure about support from North, Riverlands and the Vale. Ned has a strong bias against Cersei but not that deep that he would support Robert to set aside a wife who has given him 3 children, he's the soul of honor, even after he figured out after Cersei's incest thing he still had the heart to gave her warning. Also after the wolf incident, when Ned and Robert talked inside his tent during the hands tourney Ned merely called Joff wild in front of Robert and that he could change. So no i don't think North and especially the Vale would support that.

As for the Riverlands, they seemed to go with the most profitable offer. Hoster's granddaughter Sansa is a strong nomination to be Joff's queen, a big leap for him. There's no point of supporting the Tyrell for Hoster

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

All hail Queen Margaery.

[purple-eyes]

I assume this case only about setting aside with none of the Lannister bastard issue

He could try to set her aside and definitely would get support from the Reach but i'm not sure about support from North, Riverlands and the Vale. Ned has a strong bias against Cersei but not that deep that he would support Robert to set aside a wife who has given him 3 children, he's the soul of honor, even after he figured out after Cersei's incest thing he still had the heart to gave her warning. Also after the wolf incident, when Ned and Robert talked inside his tent during the hands tourney Ned merely called Joff wild in front of Robert and that he could change. So no i don't think North and especially the Vale would support that.

As for the Riverlands, they seemed to go with the most profitable offer. Hoster's granddaughter Sansa is a strong nomination to be Joff's queen, a big leap for him. There's no point of supporting the Tyrell for Hoster

after all robert is king and ned is quite loyal to him. 

I think if robert insists, then ned will support him since he did not like cersei or jaime or lannister at all.

in fact, I think if robert did not die so soon, he would likely set aside cersei for margarey. 

Margarey is younger and more beautiful and also had a lot of support and money from reach. 

if Robert marry her, then he can pay his debt. 

 

 

[Lord Lannister]

There's really no feasible way Robert can do this without making an enemy of Tywin unless the incest is discovered. Especially considering how indebted the crown is to the Lannisters.

[Dorian Martell]

Renly tried to make Robert set aside Cersei and remarry Margarey. 

Since Robert disliked Cersei so much so I guess he must be willing to do it. 

then he will have a firm support from the reach. 

if he declared that he set aside Cersei, will there be a war between Westerlands and iron throne?

I think he probably can win this war with the help of north, riverlands, reach and stormland. 

(And I am pretty sure after margarey became queen and get a kid, they will try to remove Joff and tommen too. it is not enough to be just second queen, they needed a future king to seal this deal. )

 

 

 

We would have a very different story and we would lose a major POV. Nope

[SilentDystopia]

Renly tried to make Robert set aside Cersei and remarry Margarey. 

Since Robert disliked Cersei so much so I guess he must be willing to do it. 

then he will have a firm support from the reach. 

if he declared that he set aside Cersei, will there be a war between Westerlands and iron throne?

I think he probably can win this war with the help of north, riverlands, reach and stormland. 

(And I am pretty sure after margarey became queen and get a kid, they will try to remove Joff and tommen too. it is not enough to be just second queen, they needed a future king to seal this deal. )

 

 

 

Will he tell the realm about the incest? Will he know of the Incest? Or just say "Hey I hate this bitch I want the young rose nom nom nom" <--lol

If the incest thing is out I see two things happening. (1) Tywin would go to war with the crown and fight for his Empire's Honor while ignoring the fact that incest was indeed a thing happening between Cersei and Jamie.

or (2) Tywin is pissed off, but at his favorite son Jamie and his only daughter Cersei for doing such a thing. To stay in power and have a peaceful solution with the Iron Throne he would take away all debts, while trying to fix his Empire's reputation. 

[purple-eyes]

Will he tell the realm about the incest? Will he know of the Incest? Or just say "Hey I hate this bitch I want the young rose nom nom nom" <--lol

If the incest thing is out I see two things happening. (1) Tywin would go to war with the crown and fight for his Empire's Honor while ignoring the fact that incest was indeed a thing happening between Cersei and Jamie.

or (2) Tywin is pissed off, but at his favorite son Jamie and his only daughter Cersei for doing such a thing. To stay in power and have a peaceful solution with the Iron Throne he would take away all debts, while trying to fix his Empire's reputation. 

at that moment Robert did not know about incest. 

I am saying he simply set aside Cersei because he disliked her and Margarey is more beautiful. 

This is also what renly planned. 

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

I am saying he simply set aside Cersei because he disliked her and Margarey is more beautiful. 

There is no reason to. This is not a case of HENRY VIII who was both pious and desperate for a legitimate son. Robert has been given legitimate heirs and is happy sticking his dick in anything.

The 14 year Margaery being beautiful is not going to have much effect as Robert is having regular sex and seems to lose interest in them quickly, he does not have paramours he has whores and moves on.

This is also what renly planned.

Well yeah. Though I think Stannis had the right of it

"We both know your wedding was a mummer's farce. A year ago you were scheming to make the girl one of Robert's whores."

A marriage was unlikely while Cersei was still alive and Robert was not about to risk the Lannister alliance by doing so. More likely was that Renly could have made her Robert's royal paramour and the Tyrell faction got influence that way.

[purple-eyes]

There is no reason to. This is not a case of HENRY VIII who was both pious and desperate for a legitimate son. Robert has been given legitimate heirs and is happy sticking his dick in anything.

The 14 year Margaery being beautiful is not going to have much effect as Robert is having regular sex and seems to lose interest in them quickly, he does not have paramours he has whores and moves on.

Well yeah. Though I think Stannis had the right of it

"We both know your wedding was a mummer's farce. A year ago you were scheming to make the girl one of Robert's whores."

A marriage was unlikely while Cersei was still alive and Robert was not about to risk the Lannister alliance by doing so. More likely was that Renly could have made her Robert's royal paramour and the Tyrell faction got influence that way.

house tyrell would never allow Margarey become mistress. she had to become queen.

And margarey is sister of Loras, true lover of Renly. Why would renly want to do this to her?

renly was indeed trying to sell margarey as robert's wife, not his whore. 

he wanted to set aside Cersei, put Margarey as queen there, then gained more power for himself and House Tyrell. 

 

[SilentDystopia]

at that moment Robert did not know about incest. 

I am saying he simply set aside Cersei because he disliked her and Margarey is more beautiful. 

This is also what renly planned. 

 

Oh then there will be no peace. Tywin would definitely go to war. Its one thing that Areys disrespected him, but Robert setting aside his daughter for no reason other then "she's a bitch I want the pretty rose" is just too dumb even for Robert :x. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

house tyrell would never allow Margarey become mistress. she had to become queen.

It seems that they were willing to send her to court while Robert and Cersei were still married. And it seems like there was a plot to have the king sleep with her.

Mistresses of Kings are a pretty valuable commodity. Thomas Boelyn became a Viscount while his oldest daughter was the Kings mistress and became one of the most powerful men in England while Anne was mistress.

Any plot to make Margaery Queen would have involved her initially becoming his mistress.

 

And margarey is sister of Loras, true lover of Renly. Why would renly want to do this to her?

For influence. As I said before, History is full of hugely powerful consorts to Kings. Margaery does not have to be married to the King to be beneficial to Tyrell influence.

renly was indeed trying to sell margarey as robert's wife, not his whore. 

Robert had sex on tap. He would have first 'tasted the goods' with Margaery. She would have been his whore before Queen.

he wanted to set aside Cersei, put Margarey as queen there, then gained more power for himself and House Tyrell. 

Of course. His ideal plan was the former, but he was also preparing for the latter.

Stannis calls it out for what it is, this is infront of Reach lords. Renly cant just let that fester, he has to dress it up as nice as possible but Margaery was being used to try and snare the King and to do that she would have had to become his mistress/whore beforehand with no guarantee that Robert would go to the trouble of setting his wife aside.

Aegon IV, who really had no love for his wife did not set her aside. Same with Aerys II. While not impossible, it was very improbable that Robert would have set Cersie aside for reasons as petty as love (incest is obviously a whole new ball game) as it would have fractured his kingdom. Possibly turn his father in law and his heirs against him.

[purple-eyes]

It seems that they were willing to send her to court while Robert and Cersei were still married. And it seems like there was a plot to have the king sleep with her.

Mistresses of Kings are a pretty valuable commodity. Thomas Boelyn became a Viscount while his oldest daughter was the Kings mistress and became one of the most powerful men in England while Anne was mistress.

Any plot to make Margaery Queen would have involved her initially becoming his mistress.

 

For influence. As I said before, History is full of hugely powerful consorts to Kings. Margaery does not have to be married to the King to be beneficial to Tyrell influence.

Robert had sex on tap. He would have first 'tasted the goods' with Margaery. She would have been his whore before Queen.

Of course. His ideal plan was the former, but he was also preparing for the latter.

Stannis calls it out for what it is, this is infront of Reach lords. Renly cant just let that fester, he has to dress it up as nice as possible but Margaery was being used to try and snare the King and to do that she would have had to become his mistress/whore beforehand with no guarantee that Robert would go to the trouble of setting his wife aside.

Aegon IV, who really had no love for his wife did not set her aside. Same with Aerys II. While not impossible, it was very improbable that Robert would have set Cersie aside for reasons as petty as love (incest is obviously a whole new ball game) as it would have fractured his kingdom. Possibly turn his father in law and his heirs against him.

I agree Margarey will go to the court and try to seduce Robert firstly. 

Like Queen Alicent slept with Viserys when queen was alive and later married him. 

After all, you have to make king love you firstly. then you can persuade him to get divorce. 

(although if the woman are smart enough she can manage to get a marriage promise before really sleeping with the king, like Anne)

But renly and house tyrell is still targeting for the queen, definitely not just a mistress. 

Tyrell is lord of reach and renly is King's bother. 

They are already much more powerful than father of Boylen.

We all know how robert hated Cersei and also disliked the influence of Lannister. If he was attracted by Margarey, I can see him try to set side Cersei. 

but of course, house lannister would not be happy with this. 

in fact, the biggest obstacle will be Cersei's children. 

It is a much bigger deal to change the crown prince than to change a wife. 

Joff is still the heir, even Tyrell made his daughter as new queen, I am not sure how they will get rid of Joff and tommen and myrcella (in case Margarey had only daughter)

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Theres also the slight problem of the realm being 6 milliion gold crowns in debt to Tywin. Most of that debt being run up by Robert. Tywin would have Roberts head if he tried a stunt like dumping Cersei. And knowing Tywin it's a contingency he's already strategized an offense/defense against (course of action).

[TimJames]

 

(And I am pretty sure after margarey became queen and get a kid, they will try to remove Joff and tommen too. it is not enough to be just second queen, they needed a future king to seal this deal. )

If Margaery decided to get Joffery and Tommen disinherited, her brother-in-law would probably be of immense help for her. 

"Wait Stannis! You mean to tell me that Joffery is really a product of Incest between the former Queen and her brother? And that by consequence my son Robert II is the rightful heir to The Iron Throne? I believe you 100%, and I agree that we need to tell my husband/your brother about this discovery which just so happens to suit my purposes."

And even if Tywin was pissed off enough to go to war, Robert could always keep Cersei and Jamie in The Black Cells as hostages. If he couldn't resist publicly executing them, then Tywin wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell in a war against the rest of Westeros. If Tywin tried using assassination and espionage to get revenge (by killing Margaery and Robert in a Red Wedding), then his plot would be likely to get discovered and foiled by Olenna Redwyne. 

From there, everything would be peaceful and peachy just so long as The Tyrells don't try riding Robert's Coattails as overtly as The Lannisters did. Margaery was fine with her husband cheating on her with her brother, so I doubt Robert's philandering would bother her too much. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

I agree Margarey will go to the court and try to seduce Robert firstly. 

Like Queen Alicent slept with Viserys when queen was alive and later married him. 

So there you have it. She would have became the Kings whore even if she eventually became Queen (which seems unlikely)

After all, you have to make king love you firstly. then you can persuade him to get divorce. 

Can you think of any divorces?

(although if the woman are smart enough she can manage to get a marriage promise before really sleeping with the king, like Anne)

 

That was different. Henry, ironically, was a Pious man. He wanted the woman he loved to be his wife, he had a much more idealized view of Marriage. Robert does not seem to have this.

And of course the biggest obstacle was that Catherine had produced no sons and Henry was desperate for a son to follow him.

Also Isablla had died (Catherines mother) weakening the power behind Catherine. Her father Aragon had actually betrayed Henry multiple times as well. It was not an alliance he wanted to keep.

 

But renly and house tyrell is still targeting for the queen, definitely not just a mistress. 

Sure, that would be the target. But it was unlikely to succeed and they would have known that given that not since Maegor had a King set aside a living wife.

Tyrell is lord of reach and renly is King's bother. 

They are already much more powerful than father of Boylen.

Right, but they still would have craved influence.

The other major backer of Anne was her uncle the Duke of Norfolk (one of only two Dukes) and the head of the Howards, the most powerful House in England.

Being powerful seems to only increase people's greed. They always seem to want more power and influence and the Tyrells seem no different to the Howards in this respect.

We all know how robert hated Cersei

True.

 

and also disliked the influence of Lannister.

Nope. This is a common misconception on these boards.

Robert did not dislike their influence, if he did so he would never have made Jaime the Warden of the East. He does not have a problem with the level of Lannister influence.

In fact one of his main concerns is keeping them on side in case the Targs invade.

 

 

Joff is still the heir, even Tyrell made his daughter as new queen, I am not sure how they will get rid of Joff and tommen and myrcella (in case Margarey had only daughter)

 

Well that is one of the main reasons why it would not happen.

Robert shows no respect for sanctity of marriage, he happily bones anything he finds attractive and he also has no problem sleeping with women below his station.

There is no reason for him to want another marriage.

[purple-eyes]

If Margaery decided to get Joffery and Tommen disinherited, her brother-in-law would probably be of immense help for her. 

"Wait Stannis! You mean to tell me that Joffery is really a product of Incest between the former Queen and her brother? And that by consequence my son Robert II is the rightful heir to The Iron Throne? I believe you 100%, and I agree that we need to tell my husband/your brother about this discovery which just so happens to suit my purposes."

And even if Tywin was pissed off enough to go to war, Robert could always keep Cersei and Jamie in The Black Cells as hostages. If he couldn't resist publicly executing them, then Tywin wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell in a war against the rest of Westeros. If Tywin tried using assassination and espionage to get revenge (by killing Margaery and Robert in a Red Wedding), then his plot would be likely to get discovered and foiled by Olenna Redwyne. 

From there, everything would be peaceful and peachy just so long as The Tyrells don't try riding Robert's Coattails as overtly as The Lannisters did. Margaery was fine with her husband cheating on her with her brother, so I doubt Robert's philandering would bother her too much. 

actually if margarey managed to marry robert and got a few kids with Baratheon look, it may confirm the incest thing even better. 

 

[Light a wight tonight]

It would be hard to justify setting Cersei aside without evidence of infidelity (and with her brother as an added cause) but if those facts came out it would work in Robert's favor. First, he could justifiably order Cersei and Jaime to be beheaded for treason, but give Tywin the opportunity to excuse any debts owed him by the Crown or by Robert personally in exchange for allowing Jaime to take the Black and Cersei to join the Silent Sisters. 

[purple-eyes]

So there you have it. She would have became the Kings whore even if she eventually became Queen (which seems unlikely)

Can you think of any divorces?

 

 I do not think we can call Margarey whore if she tried to have some love affair with Robert. She is a high born lady. Maybe just a mistress. 

(If she is whore, then we probably should call Lyanna a whore too.)

Naerys asked Aegon to set aside her, was refused by him.

Aerys I's council also asked him to set aside his wife, he also refused. 

At least these means king can get divorce. And it is not that hard. 

Several people proposed to Dany and they said they can set aside his previous wives for her. 

if it is absolutely impossible, renly would not even suggest that. 

 

 

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 I do not think we can call Margarey whore if she tried to have some love affair with Robert. She is a high born lady. Maybe just a mistress. 

Honestly, I was just quoting Stannis. The intention is the same.

(If she is whore, then we probably should call Lyanna a whore too.)

Not really. First of all we have no idea if Lyanna went willingly, but even if she did she didn't sleep with Rhaegar for ambition. The Starks certainly did not encourage it.

The Tyrells seem to be sending their 14 year girl to entice the, frankly, fat unattractive King in a bid to gain more influence. I don't see anything wrong with this, fairly common concept, but it is more akin to prostitution than Lyanna's involvement with the Prince.

Naerys asked Aegon to set aside her, was refused by him.

Not exactly. After she had delivered him a son she asked an end to the sex, not the marriage.

When Prince Daeron was born on the last day of 153 AC, Grand Maester Alford warned that another pregnancy might kill her. Naerys was said to address her brother thus: "I have done my duty by you, and given you an heir. I beg you, let us live henceforth as brother and sister." We are told that Aegon replied: "That is what we are doing." Aegon continued to insist his sister perform her wifely duties for the rest of her life.

And I'm not sure your point, plenty of people may have wanted out of marriages. It was just not done, even Kings who disliked their wives and lusted after other women didnt do it.

So while it is clearly not impossible that Robert would have divorced Cersei it is certainly improbable.

Aerys I's council also asked him to set aside his wife, he also refused. 

They never consummated their marriage, no heirs means it would have been annulled.

But once again, I'm missing your point. Another marriage that stuck together.

At least these means king can get divorce. And it is not that hard. 

Clearly it is as it would have happened.

Several people proposed to Dany and they said they can set aside his previous wives for her. 

Dany is in Essos, living in a different culture and religion.

if it is absolutely impossible, renly would not even suggest that. 

I never said it was impossible, I said it was improbable. Which it is.