What if the TV show fulfills all popular fan theories, and GRRM's upcoming novels don't

[ChillyPolly]

1 minute ago, TeamWhiteWalkerz said:

Come on now... TWOW 2016 is still possible. George won't disappoint us ;-;

I was half-joking before, but now I'm being serious.  If you're expecting 2016, GRRM WILL disappoint you.  When 2017 rolls around, remember the parrot's warning.

[RobOsevens]

12 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Considering the massive changes that the show has made from the source material, GRRM won't have to change a thing and it will still be wildly (almost wrote wildling, LOL) different.

Sure it seems like mostly small changes, but they have--as has been mentioned by others, GRRM included--the butterfly effect and will lead to larger changes before the series is over.

Yeah things will be different they have to be, I'm talking about endgame stuff

 

4 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said:

I would not assume that at all.

But sure, if HBO thinks GRRM's ideas are really cool, they will use them.  If they don't like his ideas, they won't use them.  And they are far more likely than GRRM to pander to what they think the fans want, rather than what they think is good.

I'm not sure GRRM is above a little pandering, but I am quite sure HBO is not above pandering.

I know there will be many changes but if Jon for example ends up on the IT in the books and Dany on the IT in the show then something has gone wrong somewhere. 

I guess at this point it is pure speculation, but when the show ends and GRRM is bombarded with questions like this we may get some answers but then again probably not

[MaybeINeverSawACamel]

I have a theory that most of ADOS is already written and it has been for many years, that GRRM problem has been filling in everything in between. With this theory, his endings are already done. 

 

Also, my birthday is in September so WOW would be an incredible birthday present!

[Queen Alienor]

Well, the show is already diverging hugely, so I really don't think it's necessary. Like, I don't think anything the show does is really that much of an indication of what will happen in the books anymore, with it's rather... interesting Interpretation of the Sparrows and the completely dumb Dorne plot etc., and they've announced to go more off-book now (calling season 5 reasonably close to the source material) so ... my point is, the show could go and make Jon and Dany the twin children of the Great Other or something like that, and I totally would not believe it until Martin tells me it's the truth.

[ChillyPolly]

10 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

I know there will be many changes but if Jon for example ends up on the IT in the books and Dany on the IT in the show then something has gone wrong somewhere. 

Sure, you can call that "wrong".  But it does not mean GRRM is the one changing his mind.  If, hypothetically, such a thing were to occur, it would probably mean that HBO decided they could make more money with Dany on the IT, because more fans like Dany, or something like that.

Now HBO is not going to advertise that they are deviating from GRRM's plan.  That would be poor advertising.  But still, they are going to do what they want, because it's their money, and they contracted for creative control.  GRRM is not going to bitch about deviations either, because he is contracted not to badmouth the show, and also because he does not want to spoil his own books.  He will just vaguely say "please keep reading because some things will be different" and hope we keep buying the books.

For HBO, there is little downside to doing whatever they want.  By the time the readers find out that they have been radically unfaithful to GRRM's "vision" (or whatever) they will have made their money. 

[RobOsevens]

Just now, ChillyPolly said:

Sure, you can call that "wrong".  But it does not mean GRRM is the one changing his mind.  If, hypothetically, such a thing were to occur, it would probably mean that HBO decided they could make more money with Dany on the IT, because more fans like Dany, or something like that.

Now HBO is not going to advertise that they are deviating from GRRM's plan.  That would be poor advertising.  But still, they are going to do what they want, because it's their money, and they contracted for creative control.  GRRM is not going to bitch about deviations either, because he is contracted not to badmouth the show, and also because he does not want to spoil his own books.  He will just vaguely say "please keep reading because some things will be different" and hope we keep buying the books.

For HBO, there is little downside to doing whatever they want.  By the time the readers find out that they have been radically unfaithful to GRRM's "vision" (or whatever) they will have made their money. 

You could very well be right but D&D were given the keys to the kingdom based on their fandom and wanting to do right by GRRM and adapt his unadaptable story as faithfully as possible. I'm not saying they have done this but GRRM trusts them (or did) and nothing that we have learned shows otherwise. 

Also as to HBO doing whatever they want for ratings D&D have fought them on the length of the show (not wanting to do more than 8 seasons) and they have done pretty well ratings wise by following GRRM's twists and plotlines. 

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

Agreed, if HBO went with some of the plausible theories about Daenerys (e.g. she dies without making it to Westeros and her plot role was to raise the dragons to pass on to other players of the game), that would hurt their ratings BAD.  For many of the show watchers, it's the Kelly C. show, focused on the bad-ass strong female leader figure who is going to save the day and burn all the bad people.  They will just stop watching if she dies.  I would not be surprised at all if certain changes that could happen were totally ignored by the show just to keep ratings up - another example would be if Jon Snow is dead and stays dead, or comes back as an antagonist.  HBO just will not do that to their ratings cash cow.

[ChillyPolly]

29 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

You could very well be right but D&D were given the keys to the kingdom based on their fandom and wanting to do right by GRRM and adapt his unadaptable story as faithfully as possible.

While I am not privy to contractual details, I'm pretty sure that is absolutely false.  HBO (not D&D) was given the keys to the kingdom based upon $$$$$.  Any vague assertions which might vaguely suggest the contrary are merely good publicity, from which GRRM and HBO mutually benefit.  HBO did not originally commit to season 4, much less season 8, 9, 10 or whatever the last season will be.  They did not contractually commit to provide an ending at all, much less one in keeping with GRRMs wishes.

I'm sure GRRM was reasonably sincere about the nice things he said about D&D.   But still ...

When GRRM sold his baby, he sold them the right to rape it.  George Lucas got raked over the coals with his "white slavers" joke about selling his "children" to Disney, but he was just telling it like it is.  And he may have said too much ... he probably had Disney execs calling to yell at him the next day.

[RobOsevens]

9 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said:

While I am not privy to contractual details, I'm pretty sure that is absolutely false.  HBO (not D&D) was given the keys to the kingdom based upon $$$$$.  Any vague assertions which might vaguely suggest the contrary are merely good publicity, from which GRRM and HBO mutually benefit.  HBO did not originally commit to season 4, much less season 8, 9, 10 or whatever the last season will be.  They did not contractually commit to provide an ending at all, much less one in keeping with GRRMs wishes.

I'm sure GRRM was reasonably sincere about the nice things he said about D&D.   But still ...

Idk about that I thought D&D got GRRM's permission to develop a show and shop it around, they have always said it was HBO or bust as they were the only ones who could show the story and be true to it (violence, subject matter, etc.)

HBO obviously didn't commit to many seasons, they commit to a pilot it shows well they commit to 1 season (or they reshoot the pilot then commit to one season) Season does well they commit to another, that is how TV generally works and how this show has worked.

I meant now that the show has been a success and we will get to see it to its conclusion D&D have stated they know what the end is and are working towards it. This means they need to have a defined end and not stretch it out with filler. So D&D want 8 seasons (just an example) while HBO may want 10 because it is their #1 show and making them lots of money. 

D&D are the showrunners and I think they do want to create a successful show that they and GRRM are proud of. Just my opinion tho

[kimim]

17 minutes ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

Agreed, if HBO went with some of the plausible theories about Daenerys (e.g. she dies without making it to Westeros and her plot role was to raise the dragons to pass on to other players of the game), that would hurt their ratings BAD.  For many of the show watchers, it's the Kelly C. show, focused on the bad-ass strong female leader figure who is going to save the day and burn all the bad people.  They will just stop watching if she dies.  

 

Dany dying without making it to Westeros wouldn't just hurt HBO's ratings, but the novels as well. I could not stand Dany and her adventures in SB, yet I read them, as I believed that they had something to do with the general story. In the same way, I put up with Emilia Clarke's awful acting, because I assumed she would have something to do with the story. Why was I forced to read that crap/watch Clarke's pitiful attempts at acting, if the character was never going to make it to Westeros?

At least give me some reward for my suffering, lol.

 

[ChillyPolly]

On Dany never reaching Westeros:  I'm pretty sure this was NOT the plan all along, and I believe this is a matter of record.  If Dany never reaches Westeros in the books, I will conclude GRRM changed his mind.  But this is regardless of what HBO does. 

[Jak Scaletongue]

1 hour ago, RobOsevens said:

Yeah things will be different they have to be, I'm talking about endgame stuff

I know there will be many changes but if Jon for example ends up on the IT in the books and Dany on the IT in the show then something has gone wrong somewhere. 

I guess at this point it is pure speculation, but when the show ends and GRRM is bombarded with questions like this we may get some answers but then again probably not

Just throwing another hypothetical out there - if the endgame is the IT in a molten puddle on the floor, then in that case it wouldn't matter who's ass sat in the chair for a couple of episodes! 

I'm just playing around in my head, since we don't know the endgame of either, yet

But yeah, if book endgame is scenario 1 and show endgame is scenario 2 - something went bad!

[RobOsevens]

Just now, Jak Scaletongue said:

Just throwing another hypothetical out there - if the endgame is the IT in a molten puddle on the floor, then in that case it wouldn't matter who's ass sat in the chair for a couple of episodes! 

I'm just playing around in my head, since we don't know the endgame of either, yet

But yeah, if book endgame is scenario 1 and show endgame is scenario 2 - something went bad!

Thanks Jak!

BTW, I think GRRM has stated that someone will be on the IT at the end

[Jak Scaletongue]

1 minute ago, RobOsevens said:

Thanks Jak!

BTW, I think GRRM has stated that someone will be on the IT at the end

oh, maybe - I'm just a bit bored!

[ChillyPolly]

25 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

BTW, I think GRRM has stated that someone will be on the IT at the end

IIRC, he said he knows who will sit on the Iron Throne.  If noone will sit on it, and he knows this, his statement is accurate.  "Who" is a question, and "nobody" is an answer.

[El Guapo]

1 hour ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

Agreed, if HBO went with some of the plausible theories about Daenerys (e.g. she dies without making it to Westeros and her plot role was to raise the dragons to pass on to other players of the game), that would hurt their ratings BAD.  For many of the show watchers, it's the Kelly C. show, focused on the bad-ass strong female leader figure who is going to save the day and burn all the bad people.  They will just stop watching if she dies.  I would not be surprised at all if certain changes that could happen were totally ignored by the show just to keep ratings up - another example would be if Jon Snow is dead and stays dead, or comes back as an antagonist.  HBO just will not do that to their ratings cash cow.

There is nothing plausible about those theories. Dany is making it to Westeros and will definitely being involved in the end game of the story

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

4 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

There is nothing plausible about those theories. Dany is making it to Westeros and will definitely being involved in the end game of the story

I don't know, there's a lot of foreshadowing that she will die without setting foot on Westeros again…and what happens to Jon Snow is anybody's guess.

[Ruhail]

1 hour ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

Agreed, if HBO went with some of the plausible theories about Daenerys (e.g. she dies without making it to Westeros and her plot role was to raise the dragons to pass on to other players of the game), that would hurt their ratings BAD.  For many of the show watchers,  ---------it's the Kelly C. show, focused on the bad-ass strong female leader figure who is going to save the day and burn all the bad people.  They will just stop watching if she dies.  I would not be surprised at all if certain changes that could happen were totally ignored by the  show just to keep ratings up------- . Another example would be if Jon Snow is dead and stays dead, or comes back as an antagonist.  HBO just will not do that to their ratings cash cow.

I think that highlighted bit is a possible reason why the Griff story was cut so, its easy and less split i.e not morally grey for Dany winning the IT.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 2/2/2016 at 3:00 PM, ChillyPolly said:

IIRC, he said he knows who will sit on the Iron Throne.  If noone will sit on it, and he knows this, his statement is accurate.  "Who" is a question, and "nobody" is an answer.

I would find "no one" a slightly more satisfying answer.

 

On 2/2/2016 at 3:10 PM, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

I don't know, there's a lot of foreshadowing that she will die without setting foot on Westeros again…and what happens to Jon Snow is anybody's guess.

There is?  I don't recall any. I do specifically remember her seeing herself fighting at the Trident. Granted at first she's Rhaegar, but then whole fire melting the armies (probably Others/Wights) seemed to me to indicate the presence of dragons there, which weighs heavily in favor of Dany also being there. At least as long as Drogon is alive, Dany will be too. 

I also recall GRRM having said that in TWOW both Dany and Tyrion will be going home. While that can be interpreted different ways, it's generally agreed that the meaning is they're going back to Westeros.

[7-KG]

On 02/02/2016 at 3:59 PM, TeamWhiteWalkerz said:

Come on now... TWOW 2016 is still possible. George won't disappoint us. ;-;

But...People said this in 2015...