The Kingsguard oaths shouldn't be for life

[James Steller]

Looking at Robert's Kingsguard, it always amazed me just how awful it seemed. Borros Blount, Preston Greenfield, and Meryn Trant were all either mediocre or just completely unfit. Even Barristan Selmy was well into his senior years.

But that said, they were all KG for fourteen years or more. Of course they wouldn't be quite up to standards with age.

So it makes me wonder if it isn't a better idea to have KG serve for specific amounts of time. They can renew their time if they prove still worthy, and if for some reason that they can't fulfill their role to the same quality as before, give them an honourable discharge and a good position somewhere with a pension. That would help make the KG a more appealing post and also ensure that the best of the best warriors are guarding the king.

[Adam Targaryen]

Yeah, I agree. If the Kingsguards aren't put to use and dying by the sword (which they're mostly not), then at any given time the KG would be at least to a degree comprised of old men

[ser hsals]

I think it makes sense. it's very similar to the Nights Watch: to join the Kingsguard you have to be ready to give up on your life for the king. It's a good way to prevent desertion and people not taking the job seriously as well. Being a Kingsguard is a dangerous job and the Kingsguard was created at troubled times so it was rare for most of them to even get old.

The reason why Robert Baratheon KG was shit is not because it was mostly old warriors (they aren't so old?) but because it's pretty much Cersei who chose the new knights. Robert didn't care, he only kept Barristan and Jaime (pretty damn good warriors) and Ser Mandon Moore (Jaime thought he was deadly so I guess he wasn't so bad :p) who came to Kings Landing with Jon Arryn.

Tommen's KG is even worse, thanks Cersei again.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

30 minutes ago, ser hsals said:

Tommen's KG is even worse, thanks Cersei again.

I would point out that she chose Balon Swann to be a new KG, and that was a genuinely good decision. Even Tyrion thought it was a good choice, IIRC.

And for whatever reason, she did try to get rid of Blount.

[oopeed]

42 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I would point out that she chose Balon Swann to be a new KG, and that was a genuinely good decision. Even Tyrion thought it was a good choice, IIRC.

And for whatever reason, she did try to get rid of Blount.

Yes, Balon Swann was a great addition to the roster, but Kettleback and the Hound were not. And Loras the other respectable KG was in fact an imposition by the Tyrells. Cersei would not have bothered to get rid of Blount if not for his blunder against Tyrion's goons.

I believe it makes sense, after all these guys only take orders from the king are expected to die for him. (I know I would not put myself in the line if I only had one month before retirement). And an oath relinquishing name, riches and whatever else you had before is pretty much a safeguard against desertion since most of the KG are of noble origins and would not have a place to return if they broke their oath... It was only until Robert's reign and the Lannisters impositions that they lost face.

There are chances that old age might catch the KG of a longevous king. But Barristan Selmy despite being older than Tywin and Aerys is still much better fighter than most and has experience that comes from longtime service. The same goes with Jaime; he's still better than a lot of people thanks to his training and now has the experience and patience needed for command despite his lack of hand... But at any rate, if Westeros history tells us something is that KG is a perlious job so they shouldn't worry much about becoming too old.

[Baelor Butthole]

The hound ended up being a bad choice, obviously, he deserted in the middle of the battle on the blackwater.

At the time he was chosen, I feel like he was a fine choice other than the fact that he was not knighted. He had experience as Joffrey's bodyguard and was pretty much considered one of the best fighters around. He had also shown his willingness to do pretty much whatever he was told when he killed the kid on the way to kings landing from winterfell.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

1 hour ago, Merengues said:

There are chances that old age might catch the KG of a longevous king. But Barristan Selmy despite being older than Tywin and Aerys is still much better fighter than most and has experience that comes from longtime service.

Barristan is an exception, not the rule.

[Pies are coming]

There are several problems with the Kingsguard. One is, indeed, age. It should have an age of mandatory retirement. Where, that's another matter. Maybe they can "retire" to command whatever levies are under direct command of the King, into the Small Council if they have the aptitude, into the Night's Watch or another option.

The other issues are that the Kingsguard isn't an intelligence gathering organization. Sure, if some armed man tries to murder the King, they are there. If someone takes the King hostage, they can rescue him (as Barristan did with Aerys). But they couldn't have possibly stopped Joffrey's murder, because knights don't spy and the spymaster who should have warned them had his own agenda. They don't analyze "open source" information such as "Joffrey mistreating Margery + Loras in the Kingsguard = Kingslayer stew" which even twelve years old Sansa was about to realize (and would have if she wouldn't have second guessed herself).

Also, they can't overrule the King for his own safety - ie, Robert's death.

So, all around, they are a shitty secret service.

[Trigger Warning]

Ultimately I think that there being a situation where the competence of the Kingsguard determines whether the king dies or not would be a rarity, if the king ends up with seven young competent knights to protect him then great but if he ends up with seven old dudes that just happened to survive into old age then he could always surround himself with his own knights and retainers, in battle they'd likely be similarly surrounded by their own large retinue regardless. They can just stand there and look pretty whilst you sit on your chair without diminishing the honour and prestige (that also reflects on their kin in noble houses) of the guard with forced retirements. 

Since the kingsguard is likely to never reach that extreme i'd think it's fine if a few of them are past their prime, to be used as commanders and representatives on the field and at court/royal progress, with the more capable younger knights taking on the king's personal protection along side non kingsguard protectors. If there's a situation where the king's going to be killed despite having a few capable kingsguard knights and various other defenders about him then I don't think having all seven be capable and attending him would make much difference. 

Personally I think Robert's kingsguard has more to do with him not particularly giving a shit about who they are or how good they are, he probably didn't think he needed them much.