So what is Sansa's plan? (Possible spoilers)

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First I would like to express agreement with all posters who said, Sansa does NOT hate Jon, they are NOT competitors, and they will be on the same side in future.

I'm not sure what happens to Sansa because none of us is sure what will happen to Jon. But I believe, based on general TV show principles, that Jon, Sansa, Dany and Tyrion have plot armor the rest of the way. Killing Jon is redundant at this point. Killing Sansa would be piling on, for goodness' sake, the poor girl just won one, are they going to take it away? Sansa has now accomplished the character transformation everybody wanted for her for the last three years. All that just so she can be killed? No.

We all know that Tyrion is safe, he and Sam are the only two intellectuals left. I have the feeling that Tyrion will be there to watch his siblings die in KL. And I believe that Jon (as Azor Ahai or the PwwP) and Dany will be there at the very end. This is not to imply that Sansa dies. Actually, the scene with Dany and Yara - quite unexpected - is setting up a GTO finale (girls take over) with Jon still in the picture. (Actually I'm hoping Dany and Yara will go to bed now, but I'm a pervert.)

I don't know what fate is in store for Littlefinger. As many people hate him as hate Sansa, perhaps more. I feel sure that Sansa will not get married again (it would be like killing Jon again - been there, done that). Sansa is also loved by a lot of people (including me). But does LF have a fan base? It almost seems that LF is now the older generation. He's "Too Old" for Sansa. I think that back when Sansa put on the black cleavage-showing dress for him, she looked ready to let him make love to her - but he messed that up. Maybe this is a clue: Sansa doesn't want to be reminded of Ramsay anymore, and LF does remind her.

There was a story in the Huff Po to the effect that Sansa was letting herself become a monster, evidence her little smile as she walks away from Ramsay being kibbleized. That story was written by someone named Sean so it is "mansplaining". In hard cold terms, what Sansa grasps better than Jon is not military stuff but the web of family relationships. Sansa knows why Ramsay can't let Rickon live. For the same reason, Ramsay can't be allowed to live. He absolutely can't be trusted (whereas LF can only be trusted while you see him). His death means that House Bolton no longer exists (so anyone who was "a Bolton" should end up a Stark). He had absolutely no "trade value".

One thing I have said in other places: throwing Shaggy's head around - again - and letting dogs be the villain in Ramsay Sue's demise is disgusting, period. Killing animals, abusing them, and allowing them to be portrayed as vicious is just wrong. It's a Hollywood cliché - just take note of how often this is a plot device to shock people, to numb them up for worse things to come. I don't care much what any human being does on TV, there are always worse things in reality. But animals are innocent. These portrayals, and the fact that audiences tolerate them, point to a day when our children will no longer have animals to love, a day when some authority will not let us have them anymore. In many places dogs are already prohibited. I'm talking RL here.

I think Sansa will be there at the end with Dany and Jon, not as the queen of the kingdoms, but as someone on the right side. I'm starting to think that Jamie/Cersei is the tragic arc, and they will be dead. Jamie and Brienne are not quite finished, but there just isn't room for Jamie to be really redeemed. He's too much of a Lannister (whereas Tyrion is in a way the anti-Lannister par excellence).

What I don't believe in is a final battle pitting Jon and Dany against each other. It could be that they are meant to rule together - they certainly are both short enough. Neither Sophie nor Emilia are as pretty as they were a couple of years ago. Sansa looked good in her first reunion with Jon - in a dark room. A lot of the excessive speculation regarding Sansa's facial expressions is really down to Sophie not being that great an actress. As for Emilia, she's back in her leather skirt and tights. We're not going to see her legs, or Sansa's legs, anymore. Possibly Dany will end up a queen, and be put into gowns. I admit that I have begun to despise the costuming on this show. I get that it's cold, but there's no sign that these people ever bathe! All the wildlings, Wun Wun, the BwB, Sandor - if they would just jump in a creek from time to time.

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1 hour ago, Arliss said:

LF wants the Iron Throne.  The last time a rebellion was successful it was the North + Vale + Riverlands + Stormlands

Wouldnt it be logical for LF to try and recreate that formula?  Logically he probably has no care for the North other than he wants their support for him taking the Iron Throne.  To that end, Jon becoming King of the North would suit LF -- striking the same deal Renly and Robb were to have -- which I believe LF was present in camp at the time Catilyn made that deal.

He already has little Arryn eating out of his hand doing his bidding -- so if Im LF i would assume the Vale is in the bag as well.

Once he has the Vale and the North, next he would want to bring into the fold the Riverlands -- which is why he wants Sansa and probably his next move.  If the show is true to the books in regards to where Edmure is laying his head at night -- Riverrun is in need of a head of house.

Final piece would be the Baratheon-less Stormlands -- well not quite Baratheon-less -- I can think of a certain Baratheon bastard we last saw building those forearm muscles rowing away.  And in the books I believe he has last been seen in the area of the Fingers -- wouldnt be too far-fetched to believe LF has found him and is planning to set him up as the puppet lord of the Stormlands

This is all reasonable except for one thing: Dany. She has, on paper, all the power she needs to conquer KL and maybe even the WW. It won't be that simple. I suppose there's some chance that Dany would end up going nuts at the end, in accordance with her family history. But it makes more sense to have the Final Battle be between the Good Guys and the WW, after which there are a few Grey Havens type episodes and...scene. LF wants the Throne, sure. But he's just not the kind of character who ends up winning. He's also not going to take orders from a woman, though (remember he sells women), and that points to his being killed. The paradox is, there are many plot threads that involve Littlefinger going forward - but none of them are that important. He can be killed without taking anything away from the finale. Perhaps his last service to the plot will be in the crypts

[Drago]

4 hours ago, Faceless Man Friday said:

I did not read through all the comments so forgive me if I am repeating what others have said.  I think Sansa has become very good at playing the game.  She showed herself to be a master manipulator in the Battle of the Bastards and episodes leading up to it.  She played everyone to get exactly what she wanted and she did it so deftly that they did not even know they were played.  I don't think she is going to stop there.  I think she will keep playing LF and Jon and everyone else to her advantage.  

Not entirely accurate. She is still very much learning to play the game. Her letter to LF was a plea for help and a last ditch effort, she had no way of knowing if the vale Knights were going to turn up in time because she left it to late. Yes she did manipulate Jon into helping her but that's about it, they were both winging it and that's what Jon was trying to explain to her in his own way. Her little Game almost got everyone killed. What a masterful effort. Not.

[illinifan]

3 hours ago, Fiddlefinger said:

This is all reasonable except for one thing: Dany. She has, on paper, all the power she needs to conquer KL and maybe even the WW. It won't be that simple. I suppose there's some chance that Dany would end up going nuts at the end, in accordance with her family history. But it makes more sense to have the Final Battle be between the Good Guys and the WW, after which there are a few Grey Havens type episodes and...scene. LF wants the Throne, sure. But he's just not the kind of character who ends up winning. He's also not going to take orders from a woman, though (remember he sells women), and that points to his being killed. The paradox is, there are many plot threads that involve Littlefinger going forward - but none of them are that important. He can be killed without taking anything away from the finale. Perhaps his last service to the plot will be in the crypts

So how about play the son of Rhaegar against the daughter of Aerys for your benefit?

[Ranger Kragin]

I wonder if Sansa will ever use her knowledge of LF killing her aunt, Lysa Arryn. She's the only witness and still hasn't said a word.  Or with this knowledge, will she be able to keep LF at bay?

[Future Null Infinity]

13 minutes ago, Ranger Kragin said:

I wonder if Sansa will ever use her knowledge of LF killing her aunt, Lysa Arryn. She's the only witness and still hasn't said a word.  Or with this knowledge, will she be able to keep LF at bay?

because sansa doesn't have a reason now to use this knowledge, Sansa and jon don't know yet about Baelish's betrayal of Ned, I think when she will know about that she will send a letter to SweetRobin, and SweetRobin will send LF fly throw the moon door

[Masha]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

because sansa doesn't have a reason now to use this knowledge, Sansa and jon don't know yet about Baelish's betrayal of Ned, I think when she will know about that she will send a letter to SweetRobin, and SweetRobin will send LF fly throw the moon door

In the show, she doesn't have that much influence on Sweet Robyn, and definitely not enough to have him send LF flying just by letter. She can try to send letter to Royce and other Lords of the Vale with the truth and have them attempt to take down LF and have Robyn under their control, but thats it.

Other than thru Bran, I have no idea how either in the books or the show any Starks can find out about Baelish treachery

[OldGimletEye]

27 minutes ago, Masha said:

Other than thru Bran, I have no idea how either in the books or the show any Starks can find out about Baelish treachery

Wasn't Sandor Clegane present when Baelish's betrayal happened?

[Masha]

30 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Wasn't Sandor Clegane present when Baelish's betrayal happened?

He was?? 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Masha said:

He was?? 

Yep, I'm pretty sure in books and in show he was in the throne room, when Baelish fucked Ned and watched the whole thing unfold.

[Arliss]

17 hours ago, Fiddlefinger said:

 

One thing I have said in other places: throwing Shaggy's head around - again - and letting dogs be the villain in Ramsay Sue's demise is disgusting, period. Killing animals, abusing them, and allowing them to be portrayed as vicious is just wrong. It's a Hollywood cliché - just take note of how often this is a plot device to shock people, to numb them up for worse things to come. I don't care much what any human being does on TV, there are always worse things in reality. But animals are innocent. These portrayals, and the fact that audiences tolerate them, point to a day when our children will no longer have animals to love, a day when some authority will not let us have them anymore. In many places dogs are already prohibited. I'm talking RL here.

 

It's just a ruse by D&D -- Thoros will bring Shaggydog back in S7 E1

[Masha]

Maybe, I am just not so sure it would be ever brought up either in books or in the show. LF will be brought down just not because anyone would ever find out about his betrayal of Ned.

I mean, in the books, Lysa blabbed up the whole plan in front of Sansa - aka poisoning Jon Arryn, sending letter with fake news to Catelyn to bring out Starks into conflict and pre-preemptively position them against Lannisters and book Sansa made ZERO connections to that. Thats why I am so frustrated with Sansa growth and arc in the books. I am assuming thats why D&D changed her arc.

[OldGimletEye]

10 minutes ago, Masha said:

Maybe, I am just not so sure it would be ever brought up either in books or in the show. LF will be brought down just not because anyone would ever find out about his betrayal of Ned.

I mean, in the books, Lysa blabbed up the whole plan in front of Sansa - aka poisoning Jon Arryn, sending letter with fake news to Catelyn to bring out Starks into conflict and pre-preemptively position them against Lannisters and book Sansa made ZERO connections to that. Thats why I am so frustrated with Sansa growth and arc in the books. I am assuming thats why D&D changed her arc.

Well given the fact that there is some hints that Sandor is going North and the hints he and Arya will meet again, I wouldn't rule it out that Sandor is the one spills the beans on old LF. in fact, it seems pretty likely.

But also, I think in the books Sansa does realize LF is a bit of a snake. Sure, her relationship with him the books is complicated, mixing elements of admiration for his intelligence and basic distrust of him, but I wouldn't say she completely trust him. It' more like a case of she doesn't have any where to go or thinks she doesn't. I think she will figure out somehow what a piece of crap LF is though.

As far as D & D changing Sansa's character arc for the better...that's probably laughable.

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, Masha said:

In the show, she doesn't have that much influence on Sweet Robyn, and definitely not enough to have him send LF flying just by letter. She can try to send letter to Royce and other Lords of the Vale with the truth and have them attempt to take down LF and have Robyn under their control, but thats it.

Other than thru Bran, I have no idea how either in the books or the show any Starks can find out about Baelish treachery

I would love to see Sansa sending a letter to Sweet Robyn, he's too unstable and he will go batshit crazy knownig that someone killed his mom 

[OldGimletEye]

2 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Many people all over the internet are saying that Sandor knows about the betrayal of Baelish, is this based on the books?

I haven't read GOT in quite awhile, but I am almost certain that Sandor was in the throne room, standing next to Joffrey, when Ned was betrayed by Baelish and the Gold Cloaks.

[Future Null Infinity]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I haven't read GOT in quite awhile, but I am almost certain that Sandor was in the throne room when Ned was betrayed by Baelish and the Gold Cloaks.

thank you for the answer, sorry for editing my post because I saw your previous response on the same exact question too late

[IrisBest]

43 minutes ago, Masha said:

Other than thru Bran, I have no idea how either in the books or the show any Starks can find out about Baelish treachery

I always hear the suggestion that Janos Slynt could've bragged about it in Jon's earshot before Jon executed him... But I don't think that's ever been a scene in the books or show? (correct me if I'm wrong) I wouldn't really have a problem with it if Jon suddenly dropped that bomb on LF even without set up... something like: he didn't think much about Slynt's bragging before, maybe because the names Slynt was mentioning were strangers to him, and there was nothing Jon could do about all the various people who had betrayed Ned back then, but now that he's seen and met LF, and he recalls what he heard, etc. But that said it seems like a long shot. It would be kind of fitting if LF's downfall came from a loose thread he forgot about. 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Future Null Infinity said:

thank you for the answer, sorry for editing my comment because I saw your previous response on the same exact question too late

One interesting tidbit. In the beginning of GOT Baelish bets against Sandor in his joust against Jaime and loses the bet, mainly because Baelish thinks he understands Sandor but doesn't. So there's that too.

[Faceless Man Friday]

17 hours ago, Drago said:

Not entirely accurate. She is still very much learning to play the game. Her letter to LF was a plea for help and a last ditch effort, she had no way of knowing if the vale Knights were going to turn up in time because she left it to late. Yes she did manipulate Jon into helping her but that's about it, they were both winging it and that's what Jon was trying to explain to her in his own way. Her little Game almost got everyone killed. What a masterful effort. Not.

I didn't see it that way.  I saw it as Sansa collecting pieces she could use when she needed them.  She did not want to use LF unless she had too.  When she did not get the support of the other Northern Lords like she originally thought she would she had a plan B and used it.  Just like LF himself at first wanted Ned to join him and when he did not he turned to the Lannisters.  Give the girl credit for thinking ahead. If she had told Jon about LF earlier, it would have been LF doing the manipulating and Sansa would have been ignored.  No she sent for LF at the most opportune time for her to control the situation and I think she is going to continue to play these games.

[tugela]

Sansa is playing the great game. She wants to be queen, and for that to happen any potential competition has to be eliminated.

you can see her slyness by keeping her knowledge of the Vale forces secret from Jon. Ideally she would have liked to unite the North behind her to depose the Boltons without outside assistance. But when that didn't happen she decided to play the Vale card. It was important that the northern forces be eliminated so that she could gain power without having to worry about a rival claimant's army. So she allowed the Boltons and Jon's forces to decimate each other, then she called in the Vale to clean up what was left. That leaves her in a strong position militarily, and consequently ideally positioned to seize power in the North. Jon is an expendable pawn in all of this. Granted, it would be nice for him to survive, after all he is her brother, but still, a half brother.

Naturally the current situation is less than ideal since the Vale's intervention would leave her as a vassal, but it is one step closer to being in absolute control of her destiny.

She doesn't want any man over her, not Jeoffrey, not Ramsey, not Littlefinger, not Jon. To secure what she needs to ensure her personal security, all of these people either need to go, or to bend the knee to her. She needs to be queen. So, that is her game plan, even if she is not fully aware of it right now.

She is going to cause a lot of trouble and strife in the future. Many will die because of her.