So what is Sansa's plan? (Possible spoilers)

[Chib]

At the moment they need LF. I don't think Sansa will try to kill him anything now, and it would be much better for her to get married to Robin. 

However I am not surprised if Jon heard of LF sold Sansa to the Bolton and tell Ghost to kill LF lol. All the characters have been scrambled by D&D so who knows what might happen. Just to cut the budget you know.

I still think that LF will live until next season.

[bb1180]

6 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

sorry but you are wrong, sansa doesn't have ambition to power, she wanted her revenge and she got it, she already made her choice, it's winterfell and house stark

No, I actually think you're 100% correct.  Littlefinger is going to pressure her to pursue her own ambitions (for his gain, of course) at Jon's expense, and the producers have tried to make us believe that she's open to that,  but you're right,  revenge against those that have harmed her and her family IS her true motivation.  That's why I think she won't choose what Littlefinger is offering her in the end.  

[Future Null Infinity]

2 minutes ago, bb1180 said:

at Jon's expense

???? she's Lady of Winterfell when bran is absent, it's her right by birth, she will give the lordship to Jon, LF will try to convince her to not do it, she will tell him to shut up and she will crown her brother KitN and lord of winterfell

[Les Météores D]

Both show!Jon and adwd!Jon made irrational decisions and paid the consequences. Nobody stopped book!Jon from breaking his vows in the shieldhall... my bad, he was stabbed. Also allowing Mance to go in WF, losing his shit fighting iron Emmett... etc.

He's not a moron commander, he just completely lost at mind games. In spirit they're the same character. 

[Future Null Infinity]

1 minute ago, Les Météores D said:

Both show!Jon and adwd!Jon made irrational decisions and paid the consequences. Nobody stopped book!Jon from breaking his vows in the shieldhall... my bad, he was stabbed. Also allowing Mance to go in WF, losing his shit fighting iron Emmett... etc.

He's not a moron commander, he just completely lost at mind games. In spirit they're the same character. 

he's not a moron, he's a stark (or maybe it's the same thing) 

[Lord Friendzone]

40 minutes ago, illinifan said:

  Reveal hidden contents

My understanding is that LF is involved in the scene with the Northern Council and argues for backing Sansa as Lady of Winterfell and a marriage alliance between the Vale and North.  This would make LF in control.  Sansa points this out and renounces her claim in favor of Jon.  Lady Mormont gives an awesome speech shaming the Northern lords.  The Manderlays and other lords pledge fealty to Jon.  

I suspect that this is how LF figures out that something is up with Jon's parentage.

 

Where did you heard that part about LF and his proposal? I heard the other part.

[GeorgeIAF]

32 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Where did you heard that part about LF and his proposal? I heard the other part.

What is the other part ?

[Masha]

1 hour ago, illinifan said:

  Hide contents

My understanding is that LF is involved in the scene with the Northern Council and argues for backing Sansa as Lady of Winterfell and a marriage alliance between the Vale and North.  This would make LF in control.  Sansa points this out and renounces her claim in favor of Jon.  Lady Mormont gives an awesome speech shaming the Northern lords.  The Manderlays and other lords pledge fealty to Jon.  

I suspect that this is how LF figures out that something is up with Jon's parentage.

 

That would be great if this is the way it works out. It will not be pushing Sansa out in favor of MAN, but Sansa choosing not to be controlled.

However, I disagree about LF figuring out about Jon's parentage. I mean, if he knows about Jon's parentage he Already knows before this episode. Other than Bran, nobody else can figure it out easily unless they knew this for years, neither do Northern lords know about Jon's parentage, so how can LF figure it out from their support for and Sansa push for Jon as KofN?

5 hours ago, plastic throne said:

Again, only an idiot commander would think him falling in battle before the battle even begins would have zero effect on his army. Speaking from his men's POV, we have Jon Snow, resurrected from the dead, their savoir against the WW, their 'king', solo charging like an idiot (those guys in front rows don't get the epic music or camera angle with his charge like we viewers do), and die few hundred meters away. Logic applied, people (army) will disperse immediately or retreat at first hint of defeat, probably on first cavalry charge. Any sane (let alone capable commander) would know this.

Jon (book one at least) would've know this, recognize this or (hot headed as he can be in family matters) be stopped by Davos or someone else close to him. And then they would send someone else to fetch the kid because Jon is not the only person in the North who can ride a horse

I think you are mistaken about book Jon, he is just as honest and impulsive as TV Jon. The guy who basically violated his NW vows and gathered men to rescue his sister after the pink letter? Thats not TV Jon, thats book one.  Thats up there in charging in to save his litte brother. And it does gets him killed in the book.

Perhaps his death changes the book Jon much more drastically than TV Jon, I can't tell. But so far, book Jon is very much the same as TV Jon.

 

[bb1180]

37 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

???? she's Lady of Winterfell when bran is absent, it's her right by birth, she will give the lordship to Jon, LF will try to convince her to not do it, she will tell him to shut up and she will crown her brother KitN and lord of winterfell

Yes,  I agree,  that's exactly what will happen (and I also agree that Sansa IS the heir and rightful ruler under the circumstances).

I think you misunderstand me.  Again,  I think Sansa's true motives were purely based in revenge just as you do. The hints of 'Sansa's ambition' that the producers tried to drop in there are purely there to provide tension and dramatic effect as the season went along and for this confrontation between Sansa and Littlefinger this week,  IMO.  Basically,  its just bullshit.  

[Lord Friendzone]

14 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

What is the other part ?

 

Lord Glover apology, Wyman Manderly kneeling before Jon. Lyanna Mormont speech, Jon being proclaimed KitN and Sansa supporting him. I heard this part but not the one about LF.

[GeorgeIAF]

9 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

  Hide contents

Lord Glover apology, Wyman Manderly kneeling before Jon. Lyanna Mormont speech, Jon being proclaimed KitN and Sansa supporting him. I heard this part but not the one about LF.

As long as Wyman makes an appearance, i'm happy.

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Where did you heard that part about LF and his proposal? I heard the other part.

Spoiler

There is a summary of the Season Finale floating around that I read at another thread.  I think that it is an early script because things have already been changed.  Tormund does not die and I also doubt that Margaery and Loras survive the season. 

I do suspect that if Jon is declared KiTN by the Northern lords it does have something to do with Sansa and Jon outplaying LF.  Jon would never take Winterfell from Sansa; he actually refused it from Stannis last season.  It also would go against the whole feminist theme of this season to have the North declare for Jon because girls are yucky.   

 

[Lord Friendzone]

3 minutes ago, illinifan said:

  Reveal hidden contents

There is a summary of the Season Finale floating around that I read at another thread.  I think that it is an early script because things have already been changed.  Tormund does not die and I also doubt that Margaery and Lora survive the season. 

I do suspect that if Jon is declared KiTN by the Northern lords it does have something to do with Sansa and Jon outplaying LF.  Jon would never take Winterfell from Sansa; he actually refused it from Stannis last season.  It also would go against the whole feminist theme of this season to have the North declare for Jon because girls are yucky.   

 

Yeah, Jon doesn't care about titles.

 He would nevet took it away from Sansa so either Northenrners prefer him or Sansa give it up. Or both. So it only means Sansa would have to push him. If it wasn't for spoiler I would believe in Sansa being the one but maybe she learned her lesson and doesn't want LF anywehere near. But he's not the kind of guy to give up on Winterfell and her. Did you heard about Jon , LF and Ghost scene?

8 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

As long as Wyman makes an appearance, i'm happy.

Apparently he struggles to kneel. That's Wyman. Also heard about Ghost, Jon and LF scene. Arya is supposed to serve pies to Freys but not sure about it. Maybe she bowwroede LF teleportation.

[plastic throne]

44 minutes ago, Masha said:

I think you are mistaken about book Jon, he is just as honest and impulsive as TV Jon. The guy who basically violated his NW vows and gathered men to rescue his sister after the pink letter? Thats not TV Jon, thats book one.  Thats up there in charging in to save his litte brother. And it does gets him killed in the book.

Perhaps his death changes the book Jon much more drastically than TV Jon, I can't tell. But so far, book Jon is very much the same as TV Jon.

This will be my last post on this subject as its tiring to answer about the same matter over and over again (not your fault, you can't track all my posts and read them just to see if I actually did say something about the matter).

The event you pointed out (Arya) is a great example of exact opposite, that's how Jon really isn't as hot headed as latest episode made him. Generally his first instinct is to confront the problem directly (abandoning NW for Robb, Arya - to find her), but he eventually (always) falls down to reason. In the Arya case, he sends others to do his bidding (Mance and spear wives). You don't see him hopping on the horse and riding down the road, labelled as a deserter. He's caring yes, family man, but he ain't stupid.

Now comparing the show, we have (practically) the same Arya situation, so why not send someone else (rational decision and caring as well) to fetch the kid rather than go on a suicide run that would eventually (if show was real anyway) condemn them all? I know, you could say - decision made in instant - but someone should stop and slap some sense into him, generals are surrounded by loyal and smart/tough men.

[illinifan]

28 minutes ago, Masha said:

That would be great if this is the way it works out. It will not be pushing Sansa out in favor of MAN, but Sansa choosing not to be controlled.

However, I disagree about LF figuring out about Jon's parentage. I mean, if he knows about Jon's parentage he Already knows before this episode. Other than Bran, nobody else can figure it out easily unless they knew this for years, neither do Northern lords know about Jon's parentage, so how can LF figure it out from their support for and Sansa push for Jon as KofN?

I think you are mistaken about book Jon, he is just as honest and impulsive as TV Jon. The guy who basically violated his NW vows and gathered men to rescue his sister after the pink letter? Thats not TV Jon, thats book one.  Thats up there in charging in to save his litte brother. And it does gets him killed in the book.

Perhaps his death changes the book Jon much more drastically than TV Jon, I can't tell. But so far, book Jon is very much the same as TV Jon.

 

Yep. Book Jon and TV Jon have the same fatal flaws.  I was reflecting on Jon and his characterization and Jon is probably experiencing PTSD from his experiences similar to what many young combat vets experience.  He was essentially trying to commit suicide by cop while taking as many Boltons with him after Rickon dies.  It isn't until Tormund shoves him out of the way and Jon gets buried under the stampede of men that Jon has a renewed will to live.  He chooses to fight his way out of the pile rather than just dying.  In that read of the situation, his impulsiveness makes sense.

[GeorgeIAF]

1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Yeah, Jon doesn't care about titles.

  Reveal hidden contents

 He would nevet took it away from Sansa so either Northenrners prefer him or Sansa give it up. Or both. So it only means Sansa would have to push him. If it wasn't for spoiler I would believe in Sansa being the one but maybe she learned her lesson and doesn't want LF anywehere near. But he's not the kind of guy to give up on Winterfell and her. Did you heard about Jon , LF and Ghost scene?

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Apparently he struggles to kneel. That's Wyman. Also heard about Ghost, Jon and LF scene. Arya is supposed to serve pies to Freys but not sure about it. Maybe she bowwroede LF teleportation.

 

Sounds good, anyway i think people go way over the top regarding the teleportation and LF. I think that the audience wrongly believes that all events happen one day after the other. If i remember correctly even the producers said that some events take a long time to develop even though it seems that LF travels fast.

[Faceless Man Friday]

I did not read through all the comments so forgive me if I am repeating what others have said.  I think Sansa has become very good at playing the game.  She showed herself to be a master manipulator in the Battle of the Bastards and episodes leading up to it.  She played everyone to get exactly what she wanted and she did it so deftly that they did not even know they were played.  I don't think she is going to stop there.  I think she will keep playing LF and Jon and everyone else to her advantage.  

[Future Null Infinity]

24 minutes ago, Faceless Man Friday said:

I did not read through all the comments so forgive me if I am repeating what others have said.  I think Sansa has become very good at playing the game.  She showed herself to be a master manipulator in the Battle of the Bastards and episodes leading up to it.  She played everyone to get exactly what she wanted and she did it so deftly that they did not even know they were played.  I don't think she is going to stop there.  I think she will keep playing LF and Jon and everyone else to her advantage.  

Many people are saying that riverlands and the freys are her next step, she ill go there with the Vale's army, I wouldn't be surprised, the revenge of the sisters, more paralles with Arya, and the plot armor of Sansa is she is always in the safest place (minus Ramsay), the north will soon be destroyed

[Arliss]

LF wants the Iron Throne.  The last time a rebellion was successful it was the North + Vale + Riverlands + Stormlands

Wouldnt it be logical for LF to try and recreate that formula?  Logically he probably has no care for the North other than he wants their support for him taking the Iron Throne.  To that end, Jon becoming King of the North would suit LF -- striking the same deal Renly and Robb were to have -- which I believe LF was present in camp at the time Catilyn made that deal.

He already has little Arryn eating out of his hand doing his bidding -- so if Im LF i would assume the Vale is in the bag as well.

Once he has the Vale and the North, next he would want to bring into the fold the Riverlands -- which is why he wants Sansa and probably his next move.  If the show is true to the books in regards to where Edmure is laying his head at night -- Riverrun is in need of a head of house.

Final piece would be the Baratheon-less Stormlands -- well not quite Baratheon-less -- I can think of a certain Baratheon bastard we last saw building those forearm muscles rowing away.  And in the books I believe he has last been seen in the area of the Fingers -- wouldnt be too far-fetched to believe LF has found him and is planning to set him up as the puppet lord of the Stormlands

[website error]

On 6/21/2016 at 10:05 AM, PirateVergo said:

Sansa would let Littlefinger kill Jon if it mean she can be ruler of the north and live in peace.

She doesn't give a damn about her lowborn bastard brother who's nothing but an annoyance to her due to him being a male and battle proven.

We get that you hate Sansa, but your repeated attacks on her are merely annoying. They don't even qualify as speculation