tormund's beard Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 5 hours ago, Lurid Jester said: That's... Interesting. I wasn't aware that the Ice introduced in book 1 wasn't the original Ice. the name ice goes back thousands of years, the ice we meet in the series is the "latest" ice in a long line of swords with that name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 On 30-6-2016 at 11:04 PM, tugela said: Sorry. I has thinking of Dark Sister, which is a long sword and the one that Brynden Rivers had. That is clearly not Longclaw. Blackfyre is a bastard sword as well, but it is somewhere out in the east, not at the wall. Been hoping to see Dark Sister in the books/show. Where oh where is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drago Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 28/06/2016 at 10:10 AM, Wh8tl3y said: I think Dawn is actually Ice. The two swords are the exact same make. Theres no way that Ned's brother or father took it to Kings Landing to fight the Mad King and Ice was returned to Winterfell. It is said that Ned took Dawn back to Dorne but I actually think that they might have told Ned to keep it. If true then that means Breanne and Tommen (Jamie takes it back?) have the two most badass swords in the 7 kingdoms. Ice is clearly different from dawn, Ice is much wider, probably heavier and the sort of sword you would use to pass judgement on someone with regards to beheadings. Dawn is more of a combat sword. The Sword Ned used to fight Jamie was not Ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormund's beard Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 6 hours ago, Drago said: Ice is clearly different from dawn, Ice is much wider, probably heavier and the sort of sword you would use to pass judgement on someone with regards to beheadings. Dawn is more of a combat sword. The Sword Ned used to fight Jamie was not Ice. he means dawn is ice the legendary stark sword from the age of heroes not the ice we see in the books/show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksky Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 They used rack focus in that shot. Definitely intentional. They're not done with Dawn. I can see it being used to emphasise the 'born under the bleeding star' prophecy (though the show hasn't used the exact wording of it yet, Mel has said something about red star bleeding I think) or to foreshadow Jon using it in the War for the Dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightflame princess Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 6 hours ago, tormund's beard said: he means dawn is ice the legendary stark sword from the age of heroes not the ice we see in the books/show. That is a cool theory. Never heard it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, brightflame princess said: That is a cool theory. Never heard it before. It's @Voice theory-- here, if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 4 hours ago, brightflame princess said: That is a cool theory. Never heard it before. 3 hours ago, Sly Wren said: It's @Voice theory-- here, if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightflame princess Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 On 7/1/2016 at 0:10 AM, Lurid Jester said: I actually think the woman with the braid over her shoulder is Ashara Dayne. She was friends with Elia Martell, and likely also friends with Rhaegar. That friendship, combined with the fact that Arthur Dayne is her brother, could explain her presence at the ToJ. Perhaps she's there to help Lyanna. Wylla is likely the woman we did see. She worked for the Daynes and was possibly there to care for Lyanna at the request of either Arthur or Ashara. So when Ned walks into the room, he only really sees his sister. Perhaps Ashara ran by him to go see to her brother, leaving Wylla to hand Jon to Ned. Perhaps the death of her brother causes her to have a nervous breakdown. Ned can't very well leave her in such a state so he and Howland Reed escort her home. Maybe they were able to reconcile on the trip since Ned and Ashara possibly had a budding relationship prior to the war. Meanwhile Wylla cares for Jon and the others fabricate a story to explain him. Ashara has been through enough so Ned doesn't want her reputation hurt in any way and they go with the story that Wylla is Jon's mom. Afterwards Ned heads back to Winterfell with Jon as his son. He says only enough to get by, and refuses to allow anyone tonsuggest that Ashara is the mother. Like I said, she'd been through enough and there was no reason for these events to damage her reputation in any way. Or maybe not. There are still gaps in this theory that I haven't been able to flesh out yet. I like this. I really hope ashara is part of next season. One question.. when you say woman with a braid.. That's the other woman in the room who we only glimpse for a second when Ned first enters, right?.. not the woman that we get a pretty good glimpse of that hands him the baby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drago Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 16 hours ago, tormund's beard said: he means dawn is ice the legendary stark sword from the age of heroes not the ice we see in the books/show. My apologies then. Wasn't aware of a second Sword named Ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormund's beard Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 9 hours ago, Drago said: My apologies then. Wasn't aware of a second Sword named Ice. supposedly there's been at least one other sword named ice, and many readers think theres been many swords named ice after all house stark is 4000 years old (or so they say) so everytime ICE broke it was replaced by a new one. Ned's valyrian sword is just the newest sword in a long line of swords to carry that name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 On July 2, 2016 at 9:42 PM, St Daga said: As far as the show goes, Bran plainly saw Arthur Dayne killed. Unless he lived through two fatal injuries. Unless he was resurrected, like Jon, which seems unlikely. Absolutely. But the show and book are, at this point, two totally separate universes. On July 2, 2016 at 9:42 PM, St Daga said: As for Blackfyre, it is thought to be in Essos. Dark Sister was Bloodravens and he had it at the Wall! Why would Mormont lie to Jon about Longclaw's origin? The official story of Blackfyre was that it was in Essos with bittersateel. However, it has been noted that Bittersteel never gave it to Daemon II or any of the others he would see be kind. Dark Sister was Bloodraven's sword but, presumably, he was not permitted to take it to the wall. However, the last first eye account of backfyre is from Ser Eustace Who remarks that bittersteel was defeated and sent running by black raven and there is no mention of the sword after until later on when someone comments on Daemon II is "if he really was a king he would have the sword" As for Mormont lying, that is pretty clear. It is for the same reason that Ned doesn't tell Jon about his birth. Because Jon isn't ready to know his true identity yet. Not saying this is 100% but I think there are a lot of things that make me think that things are not as they appear with this situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 On July 3, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Kytheros said: The Valyrian Steel Ice that Ned bore is a few hundred years old. It's a replacement for an older weapon, and likely merely one of many blades bearing the name over the millenia. That's how I read it, just that there was a tradition that the lords of Winterfell wielded a sword named Ice. Kind of like bastards in the north are named Snow. It doesn't trace its lineage back to a specific sword of legend. Maybe one of the future Starks will be given a valyrian sword and decides to name it Needle in honor of their crazy assassin ancestor. Unless Martin has specifically mentioned an ancient Ice which was lost. Or maybe the ancient Lords of Winter wielded swords of actual ice.... dun dun duuuun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 3 hours ago, YOVMO said: Absolutely. But the show and book are, at this point, two totally separate universes. The official story of Blackfyre was that it was in Essos with bittersateel. Dark Sister was Bloodraven's sword. ****** As for Mormont lying, that is pretty clear. It is for the same reason that Ned doesn't tell Jon about his birth. Because Jon isn't ready to know his true identity yet. First, the books and show are very different for certain. Both swords are mentioned in the books but in the show I only remember Dark Sister mentioned. Arya talks about Visenya's sword to Tywin. ****** Second, are you claiming that Jeor Mormont knew who Jon's true parents were? Highly doubtful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 5 minutes ago, St Daga said: First, the books and show are very different for certain. Both swords are mentioned in the books but in the show I only remember Dark Sister mentioned. Arya talks about Visenya's sword to Tywin. Correct. I am going off of the books because they shows are poorly written garbage. 5 minutes ago, St Daga said: ****** Second, are you claiming that Jeor Mormont knew who Jon's true parents were? Highly doubtful! Why? There are lots of ways this could have happened. Ned could have let Mormont know prior to allowing Jon to take the black. Bloodraven could have been getting telepathic messages to Mormont either the same way he go to Bran or through the crow...blood raven would know R+L=J by wiernet and as a Targaryen loyalist would want to claim his birthright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 1 hour ago, YOVMO said: Correct. I am going off of the books because they shows are poorly written garbage. Why? There are lots of ways this could have happened. Ned could have let Mormont know prior to allowing Jon to take the black. Bloodraven could have been getting telepathic messages to Mormont either the same way he go to Bran or through the crow...blood raven would know R+L=J by wiernet and as a Targaryen loyalist would want to claim his birthright. This thread relates to the episide "Winds of Winter" so referring to the books will not match. They are two very separate beasts at this point. And no way does Ned tell Mormont about Jon. No Way!!! He didn't tell anyone, his whole life, why would he tell Mormont now? And you don't trust that to a raven, so how does Ned impart that information to Mormont? As for Bloodraven getting information to Mormont, maybe, but still very unlikely! I do think there is more to Longclaw than we have seen so far, but this path seems unlikely. I'm more inclined to believe that Longclaw is a Mormont sword that became Lightbringer simply because it survived the flames that destroyed the Lord Commanders tower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 32 minutes ago, St Daga said: I do think there is more to Longclaw than we have seen so far, but this path seems unlikely. I'm more inclined to believe that Longclaw is a Mormont sword that became Lightbringer simply because it survived the flames that destroyed the Lord Commanders tower! I've always thought that Lightbringer was more symbolic, since it's part of a prophecy. Seems to me that when people try to interpret these prophecies as being literal, things don't end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 25 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said: I've always thought that Lightbringer was more symbolic, since it's part of a prophecy. Seems to me that when people try to interpret these prophecies as being literal, things don't end well. It is a symbolic interpretation! Lightbringer probably means any weapon that helped or helps end the Long Night and bring the Dawn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 1 minute ago, St Daga said: It is a symbolic interpretation! Lightbringer probably means any weapon that helped Dragon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: Dragon... Sure it could be a Dragon. And maybe there are more dragons in this world than Dany's three! Can't wait to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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