Clegane'sPup Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Why did Mel and/or Stannis save the Mance from the pyre? Jokes & snarks are welcome. I’ve made enough of them myself. On a serious note why did she and/or Stannis save the Mance from burning? Mance did tell Jon (Sos JonX) … but I've come with my tail between my legs to hide behind your Wall." He touched the horn again. "If I sound the Horn of Winter, the Wall will fall. Or so the songs would have me believe. There are those among my people who want nothing more…” "But once the Wall is fallen," Dalla said, "what will stop the Others?" Stannis went North because Davos read a message (SoS Davos VI) to Stannis. The message that Davos read to Stannis is displayed in (SoS Davos V) when Maester Plyos is teaching Davos to read. I’m going to try to cut out the shudders & stammers but you can read the full context in (SoS Davos V). To the five kings. The King beyond the Wall comes south. He leads a vast host of wildlings. Lord Mormont sent a raven from the haunted forest. He is under attack. Other birds have come since, with no words. We fear Mormont slain with all his strength. The back of the message had black seal of the NW. Why did Mel and/or Stannis save the Mance from the pyre if they believe the Mance and the wildlings are the threat to the realm? I’m curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Once the Wildlings came south of the Wall Mance wasn't the threat he had been. OTOH, he was arguably the only one who could control them, so he was more useful alive than dead. The fact that Rattlshirt was killed in his place would have to be handled, but that might even appeal to the Wildling sense of humor, and who liked Rattleshirt, anyhow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I don't think Stannis was involved in that, I just don't think it is in his nature. That being said I would assume Mel saw him in her fires and thought he was important so she saved him. If nothing else he is a great warrior she can reasonably expect to control through her spell and possession of his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaya Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 good question C'sP .... did Stannis know? I'm re-reading to see if I missed something. I would like to know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadPussy Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Was Stannis even involved? One thing that has always bothered me about this whole scenario is Mel doing this seemingly behind Stannis' back. I do not see Stannis sparing her if he ever finds out. That is, if he ever comes back to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaya Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 well that is the question, is Stannis involved? ... I've just finished up re-reading Theon 1 in ADWD and the primary objective for "Abel" & the rescue team seems to be to get the "stark" girl ... "He had come this close to telling them the truth when Rowan had delivered him to Abel in the ruins of the Burned Tower, but at the last instant he had held his tongue. The singer seemed intent on making off with the daughter of Eddard Stark. If he knew that Lord Ramsay’s bride was but a steward’s whelp, well …" & the rescue plan is if we can make it to Stannis ... "Theon turned to Abel. “This will not work.” His voice was pitched so low that even the horses could not have overheard. “We will be caught before we leave the castle. Even if we do escape, Lord Ramsay will hunt us down, him and Ben Bones and the girls.” “Lord Stannis is outside the walls, and not far by the sound of it. All we need do is reach him.” I know, so many unanswered questions - did Mel orchestrate this all? Is Stannis a part of it / like is Mance & the Washerwomen Team the cool rescue unit going in first? PLEASE keep in mind I have not read anything beyond ADWD nor have I watched all the HBO interpretations beyond season 4 so I MIGHT be missing something that you all might know/understand/glean ... you know what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 IMO Mance was "intent on saving the daughter of Eddard Stark" because he was up to something in the crypts. Something he couldn't do if the "always a Stark in Winterfell" protection was working. Stannis thinks Mance is dead and Mel didn't know he would be up to something in WF (imo). Maybe she saved him because he has king's blood she can use later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Mance knows much and more about the true enemy, he'll have future uses in TWFTD. Stannis is copping it from all sides, Val is pleading for his life, Jon too and Mel wants him. Stannis doesn't really want to kill him, but its the law and he wants his show of power. Jon's reasoning provides him a loophole in the law and Mel can give him his show without having to kill him. Stannis can have his cake and eat it too, so he relents. Mel wants to do it because Jon wants it. She's doing shit for him, there's no reason really for her to get involved with saving Arya, she has no stake in that game either, its just for Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Biscuit Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Stannis absolutely knew about the switch between Rattleshirt and Mance. He was talked into doing it by Mel after Jon told them that the laws end at the Wall, then he gave Mance to Jon for his service. Rattleshirt was present during a war council meeting for goodness sake. Of course Stannis knew who he really was. Stannis has become more flexible in sparing useful people. That is why he won't kill Theon at the end of the day. Because Theon can deliver him the Dreadfort and the Iron Islands. Not to mention that it's going to come to light that Ramsey sacked and burned Winterfell, and that Bran and Rickon were not killed by Theon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofwinter Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I always figured the answer was simple and that Mel wanted to keep him alive for King's blood in case she wanted some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 They couldn't spare him publicly because he was too stubborn and prideful to bend the knee, and to spare an unrepentant oathbreaker only invites others to do the same. The mock execution allows them to make use of the information he has regarding the wildlings and the Others while still deterring others from deserting and/or attacking the realm. Melisandre herself seems to want to use Mance to make Jon trust her. He wasn't responding well to her visions, so she turned to saving Arya, and Mance is obviously the most skilled person they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 So many interesting replies. I agree with what The Drunkard said. 10 hours ago, The Drunkard said: They couldn't spare him publicly because he was too stubborn and prideful to bend the knee, and to spare an unrepentant oathbreaker only invites others to do the same. The mock execution allows them to make use of the information he has regarding the wildlings and the Others while still deterring others from deserting and/or attacking the realm. I do think that Stannis and Mel worked out a plan to keep Mance from burning. Keep in mind this was before any of the "girl on the horse" stuff. 13 hours ago, Ser Biscuit said: Stannis absolutely knew about the switch between Rattleshirt and Mance. He was talked into doing it by Mel after Jon told them that the laws end at the Wall, then he gave Mance to Jon for his service. Rattleshirt was present during a war council meeting for goodness sake. Of course Stannis knew who he really was. Yeah, when I read that Rattleshirt was sitting at the table it was odd. Jon sure didn't like it. 14 hours ago, Yaya said: I know, so many unanswered questions - did Mel orchestrate this all? Is Stannis a part of it / like is Mance & the Washerwomen Team the cool rescue unit going in first? I agree so many unanswered questions. The one that really bugs me is why the Mance decided to go to WF instead of intercepting "the girl on the horse." Lord Manderly had brought musicians from White Harbor, but none were singers, so when Abel turned up at the gates with a lute and six women, he had been made welcome. 14 hours ago, Winter Rose Crown said: IMO Mance was "intent on saving the daughter of Eddard Stark" because he was up to something in the crypts. I do think the Mance has way to much interest in the Stark's and WF. You may be on to something about the crypts. I'd rather read than talk so speculate away people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Beaudreau Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 On 7/11/2016 at 10:56 AM, Clegane'sPup said: Why did Mel and/or Stannis save the Mance from the pyre? Jokes & snarks are welcome. I’ve made enough of them myself. On a serious note why did she and/or Stannis save the Mance from burning? Mance did tell Jon (Sos JonX) … but I've come with my tail between my legs to hide behind your Wall." He touched the horn again. "If I sound the Horn of Winter, the Wall will fall. Or so the songs would have me believe. There are those among my people who want nothing more…” "But once the Wall is fallen," Dalla said, "what will stop the Others?" Stannis went North because Davos read a message (SoS Davos VI) to Stannis. The message that Davos read to Stannis is displayed in (SoS Davos V) when Maester Plyos is teaching Davos to read. I’m going to try to cut out the shudders & stammers but you can read the full context in (SoS Davos V). To the five kings. The King beyond the Wall comes south. He leads a vast host of wildlings. Lord Mormont sent a raven from the haunted forest. He is under attack. Other birds have come since, with no words. We fear Mormont slain with all his strength. The back of the message had black seal of the NW. Why did Mel and/or Stannis save the Mance from the pyre if they believe the Mance and the wildlings are the threat to the realm? I’m curious. Mel believes she see things in the fires. If she thought that she saw Mance in a fire, she would want him alive just in case the lord of light has some role for him to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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