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Will Brienne Tell Bran (And Maybe Jon and Sansa) What Jaime Did???

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A number of characters are finally meeting each other and/or reuniting in the north.  Among other things, Brienne has already met Jon and is now headed back to him,  and Bran will very likely be with Jon soon as well, so it seems highly likely that Brienne and Bran will meet.

Why does this matter?  Because as far as I know, Bran does not know that Jaime pushed him out the window (far as I know, Bran has no memory of it except the falling, I believe Bran said this when he awoke from the coma, and I beileve Bran has had dreams or visions of it and all he saw was himself falling), and Jon and Sansa certainly do not know Jaime pushed Bran, but Brienne very likely does know it, based on the fact that Jaime expressly admitted it to Cat (Episode 110, when Jaime was Robb's captive and Cat visited and spoke with Jaime) and I would think Cat would have very likely told Brienne (if for no other reason than so that Brienne would understand what she was dealing with when she left Robb's camp with Jaime:  A person who would and did push Bran from a window in an attempt to kill him)  Note also that Jaime and Brienne spent quite a bit of time together, so it's also possible Jaime admitted it directly to Brienne as well.

So here's the question:  When Brienne sees Bran, will she tell Bran, Jon and Sansa what Jaime did?  Note that Brienne will very likely feel torn by this, because on the one hand she has become close to Jaime, but on the other hand I believe Brienne will feel honor-bound (b/c of her oath to Cat, which we know for a fact she still honors) to tell Cat's children the truth about what happened to Bran

Your thoughts?

Edited by Cron

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 1:31 AM, Cron said:

A number of characters are finally meeting each other and/or reuniting in the north.  Among other things, Brienne has already met Jon and is now headed back to him,  and Bran will very likely be with Jon soon as well, so it seems highly likely that Brienne and Bran will meet.

Why does this matter?  Because as far as I know, Bran does not know that Jaime pushed him out the window (far as I know, Bran has no memory of it except the falling, I believe Bran said this when he awoke from the coma, and I beileve Bran has had dreams or visions of it and all he saw was himself falling), and Jon and Sansa certainly do not know Jaime pushed Bran, but Brienne very likely does know it, based on the fact that Jaime expressly admitted it to Cat (Episode 110, when Jaime was Robb's captive and Cat visited and spoke with Jaime) and I would think Cat would have very likely told Brienne (if for no other reason than so that Brienne would understand what she was dealing with when she left Robb's camp with Jaime:  A person who would and did push Bran from a window in an attempt to kill him)  Note also that Jaime and Brienne spent quite a bit of time together, so it's also possible Jaime admitted it directly to Brienne as well.

So here's the question:  When Brienne sees Bran, will she tell Bran, Jon and Sansa what Jaime did?  Note that Brienne will very likely feel torn by this, because on the one hand she has become close to Jaime, but on the other hand I believe Brienne will feel honor-bound (b/c of her oath to Cat, which we know for a fact she still honors) to tell Cat's children the truth about what happened to Bran

Your thoughts?

I think it's hard to answer this because it's based on speculation. You assume Brienne knows. If she knows, then she is honor bound to tell Sansa, who she swore a vow to. She and Sansa have spent plenty of time together so if she was going to tell her she should have already.

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54 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I think it's hard to answer this because it's based on speculation. You assume Brienne knows. If she knows, then she is honor bound to tell Sansa, who she swore a vow to. She and Sansa have spent plenty of time together so if she was going to tell her she should have already.

Good points, and it's true I'm extrapolating from incomplete information, but for the reasons I stated, I think it's very likely Brienne knows Jaime pushed/threw Bran out the window.

Having said that, why MIGHT it be that Brienne has not yet told Sansa and/or Jon?  Possibly b/c it simply didn't come up, it wasn't relevant to anything they were doing or talking about, AND it's quite possible Brienne would consider it moot anyway (we don't even know if Brienne knows Bran is still alive, she MAY WELL believe Bran is dead based on incorrect information about what Theon did).  But when Bran rides into Winterfell...that could change in a hurry...

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8 minutes ago, Cron said:

Good points, and it's true I'm extrapolating from incomplete information, but for the reasons I stated, I think it's very likely Brienne knows Jaime pushed/threw Bran out the window.

Having said that, why MIGHT it be that Brienne has not yet told Sansa and/or Jon?  Possibly b/c it simply didn't come up, it wasn't relevant to anything they were doing or talking about, AND it's quite possible Brienne would consider it moot anyway (we don't even know if Brienne knows Bran is still alive, she MAY WELL believe Bran is dead based on incorrect information about what Theon did).  But when Bran rides into Winterfell...that could change in a hurry...

Well, she may have feelings for Jaime, and she hasn't been directly asked about it. Personally I don't think she knows.

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19 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Well, she may have feelings for Jaime, and she hasn't been directly asked about it. Personally I don't think she knows.

Yes, agreed on the first part, we basically KNOW Brienne has feelings for Jaime.  My strong memory is that at Joffrey's wedding Cersei directly confronts Brienne about it and flat out accuses Brienne of being in love with Jaime, and Brienne does not even deny it.

Yes, Brienne will be heavily conflicted if and when she meets Bran in person, especially  with Jon and Sansa standing right there.

I continue to believe it's likely Brienne DOES know what Jaime did, though.  In fact, unless i"m mistaken (and I hope to look into this further soon) I THINK that in the books the two scenes from the show where Cat confronts a captive Jaime are actually ONE scene, and Brienne is there the whole time.  I'm going to have to check, but I THINK that in the books it may already be crystal clear that Brienne knows.  Even if not, though, I think it's very likely Cat would have told Brienne, if for no other reason than so that Brienne would understand Jaime could represent an extreme danger to Cat's family.

Edited by Cron

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1 hour ago, Cron said:

Yes, agreed on the first part, we basically KNOW Brienne has feelings for Jaime.  My strong memory is that at Joffrey's wedding Cersei directly confronts Brienne about it and flat out accuses Brienne of being in love with Jaime, and Brienne does not even deny it.

Yes, Brienne will be heavily conflicted if and when she meets Bran in person, especially  with Jon and Sansa standing right there.

I continue to believe it's likely Brienne DOES know what Jaime did, though.  In fact, unless i"m mistaken (and I hope to look into this further soon) I THINK that in the books the two scenes from the show where Cat confronts a captive Jaime are actually ONE scene, and Brienne is there the whole time.  I'm going to have to check, but I THINK that in the books it may already be crystal clear that Brienne knows.  Even if not, though, I think it's very likely Cat would have told Brienne, if for no other reason than so that Brienne would understand Jaime could represent an extreme danger to Cat's family.

She doesn't know, end of story. There has been no foreshadowing what-so-ever. I do think the truth will come out, but I don't think it will be via Brienne. You can argue until your blue in the face about how unlikely it is she doesn't know, won't change the fact she doesn't in the show.

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10 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

She doesn't know, end of story. There has been no foreshadowing what-so-ever. I do think the truth will come out, but I don't think it will be via Brienne. You can argue until your blue in the face about how unlikely it is she doesn't know, won't change the fact she doesn't in the show.

Do you believe the show tells us every detail of every conversation held between all the characters?

I would hope the answer is "No, of course not, that's just not possible."

We are each entitled to our opinions, of course, but I believe Brienne VERY likely knows Jaime pushed/threw Bran out that window.

Just my opinion.

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7 minutes ago, Cron said:

Do you believe the show tells us every detail of every conversation held between all the characters?

I would hope the answer is "No, of course not, that's just not possible."

We are each entitled to our opinions, of course, but I believe Brienne VERY likely knows Jaime pushed/threw Bran out that window.

Just my opinion.

I believe the show shows us the important ones, yes. So, in context of your original post, "what does Brienne do" she does nothing, as she does not know, Furthermore, had she known, she would have already told Sansa, not wait until (and if) herself, Bran and Sansa are to meet.

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10 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

I believe the show shows us the important ones, yes. So, in context of your original post, "what does Brienne do" she does nothing, as she does not know, Furthermore, had she known, she would have already told Sansa, not wait until (and if) herself, Bran and Sansa are to meet.

Hmmm...maybe.  It seems reasonable and likely to me that she knows, but I admit that so far I've not been able to find proof of it.

In the books, Brienne is with Cat when Cat goes to see Jaime and Jaime admits what he did to Bran, but Cat had Brienne wait outside while she was talking to Jaime, then she called Brienne in for her sword.  Next time we "see" Jaime and Brienne, they are already on their way to King's Landing.  It is reasonable to assume (in fact, necessary) that Cat discussed at least some of what was going on and what Brienne's mission would be, but we are not given any of that conversation.  What exactly did Cat tell or not tell Brienne?  Dunno.  What are all the things Brienne and Jaime discussed on the way to King's Landing? Dunno.

As I've said, though, I don't think it's necessarily true that Brienne would have already told Sansa.  Again, there was no need, it's moot so long as Brienne thinks Bran is dead.  Once Brienne meets Bran, though, that could change.

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Pfft..after what show Bran did to poor Hodor his ass deserved to get tossed out of a window

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In the books Brienne knows.

Spoiler

She probably overheard Jaime's confession to Catelyn, beacause when they're on the boat she accuse him to be a monster and makes reference to Bran's fall.

In the show we don't know for sure, but there is time between the cat/jaime conversation about Bran and the second conversation when Jaime is released. Maybe Brienne and Cat talked about that.

 

Edited by Cridefea

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12 hours ago, Cridefea said:

In the books Brienne knows.

  Reveal hidden contents

She probably overheard Jaime's confession to Catelyn, beacause when they're on the boat she accuse him to be a monster and makes reference to Bran's fall.

In the show we don't know for sure, but there is time between the cat/jaime conversation about Bran and the second conversation when Jaime is released. Maybe Brienne and Cat talked about that.

 

So, in the books, Brienne DOES know!

THANK YOU!

I spent some time scouring the show and books, but there's so much information, I couldn't be sure in the limited time I had.

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14 hours ago, Cron said:

So, in the books, Brienne DOES know!

THANK YOU!

I spent some time scouring the show and books, but there's so much information, I couldn't be sure in the limited time I had.

You're welcome, I have re-read Jaime's Pov in ASOS only a couple of weeks ago.

Back in topic, I don't know if Bran and Brienne will meet so soon. But I think that Brienne will tell it to Sansa, Bran or Jon just in case they should talk about Jaime not before. 

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4 hours ago, Cridefea said:

You're welcome, I have re-read Jaime's Pov in ASOS only a couple of weeks ago.

Back in topic, I don't know if Bran and Brienne will meet so soon. But I think that Brienne will tell it to Sansa, Bran or Jon just in case they should talk about Jaime not before. 

Well, you could be right, but with only 13 episodes left, if Bran and Brienne are going to meet I'm not sure how far down the road it can be.  Bran is now just north of Castle Black, and my assumption is that he and Meera are going to pass through the Wall there pretty much immediately (assuming Bran's mark doesn't stop him from doing so), then find Jon.  Brienne and Pod were last seen on a boat leaving Riverun, Brienne is sworn to Sansa, and Sansa is with Jon, so I'm strongly assuming Brienne and Pod are going straight back to Sansa and Jon.  Can't say for sure, but I could see Bran and Brienne meeting face to face in Episode One or Two next season.

Regarding the part about talking about Jaime: Brienne just saw Jaime, my guess is that Sansa is going to ask Brienne what happened at Riverrun, and the subject of Jaime is going to come up real fast.

I think it will be by far the biggest test of Brienne's honor we've yet seen (torn between ratting out Jaime or not doing so, especially since she knows Jaime is NOT the same man anymore that he was when Bran went out the window)

Edited by Cron

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My impression is that Brienne's story in the show may merge with the one in the books. And with 13 episodes left the state beyond the Wall could deteriore quickly too. But yes, if they talk about Jaime she has to face a very tough decision. I think she will try to explain who is Jaime now, failing it <_<

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6 hours ago, Cridefea said:

My impression is that Brienne's story in the show may merge with the one in the books. And with 13 episodes left the state beyond the Wall could deteriore quickly too. But yes, if they talk about Jaime she has to face a very tough decision. I think she will try to explain who is Jaime now, failing it <_<

Interesting, you could be right.  Brienne can truthfully tell them about how Jaime did try to honor his oath to Cat, even going so far as to give Brienne Oathkeeper and her armor, sending her to try to find Sansa and/or Arya.  Indeed, an excellent argument can be made that if Jaime HADN'T done those things, Sansa would quite possibly (maybe even likely) be dead (Brienne and Pod saved Sansa and Theon when they had been very temporarily caught by Ramsay's men.)  Minimally, Sansa and Theon would have been returned to Ramsay (not good)

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Bran probably already knows why Jaime did what he did, did we all forget he was getting all those visions and he got one of Aerys yelling "Burn them all!" also during the part of the vision where Bran is falling you can hear Cersei in the background saying "He saw us!" so I think Bran knows Jaime pushed him out the window as well. It was only showing us the audience glimpses but Bran may have been seeing all those completely all the way through and the writers just gave us glimpses as they didn't want to waste much screen time on it.

Also I don't actually think Brienne knows Jaime pushed Bran out the window, Brienne wasn't with Cat yet when Jaime admits that he pushed Bran out the window. Does she even know Bran exists? lol

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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On 8/16/2016 at 0:57 AM, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Bran probably already knows why Jaime did what he did, did we all forget he was getting all those visions and he got one of Aerys yelling "Burn them all!" also during the part of the vision where Bran is falling you can hear Cersei in the background saying "He saw us!" so I think Bran knows Jaime pushed him out the window as well. It was only showing us the audience glimpses but Bran may have been seeing all those completely all the way through and the writers just gave us glimpses as they didn't want to waste much screen time on it.

Also I don't actually think Brienne knows Jaime pushed Bran out the window, Brienne wasn't with Cat yet when Jaime admits that he pushed Bran out the window. Does she even know Bran exists? lol

(1) It's possible Bran has more information than we were shown (from visions), but I don't think we can say that's "probably" true.  It might be true, but until we have some evidence of that, I'm going with what we were shown, and assuming that's what Bran saw.

(2)  I have no reason to believe Bran would recognize Cersei's voice, much less extrapolate from that tiny scrap of information that Jaime threw him from the window.

(3)  Regarding whether Brienne knows:  I haven't seen the actual book quotes, but I believe a poster above basically says that in the books it is confirmed Brienne knows Jaime threw Bran from the window, b/c Brienne makes some sort of reference to Jaime about what he did to Bran.  

It is possible Brienne got such information by overhearing Jaime admit it to Cat (which WOULD have been possible in the books, but not in the show, I admit, cuz in the show Brienne was nowhere around when Jaime admitted to Cat what he did to Bran), and it's also possible that Cat directly told Brienne that Jaime admitted what he did to Bran.

If it turns out that Brienne will play a role (in the books) in informing Bran, Jon and Sansa about what Jaime did, then I consider it likely that it will happen that way in the show, too, but of course there's no guarantee, since I admit the show and books differ from each other in numerous ways.

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I do not care if Brienne knows that Jaime pushed Bran out of the window. But if this has been told to her as part of a very intimate confession it would be a serious and ugly break of confidence if she told anyone, even Bran himself. The only exception would be if another person is accused of having done the deed and threatened for it while Jaime is not there to put things right. In that case, and only in that case, there would be an excuse for Brienne to break Jaime's confidence.

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On 8 August 2016 at 8:51 PM, Ice Spider said:

I believe the show shows us the important ones, yes. So, in context of your original post, "what does Brienne do" she does nothing, as she does not know, Furthermore, had she known, she would have already told Sansa, not wait until (and if) herself, Bran and Sansa are to meet.

This is actually not true, and I can think of numerous examples. First to mind: Tyrion revealing to Dany that he knew all along that Jamie killed the mad king because of the wildfire (which is interesting, because he actually doesn't know that in the books, at least not that we know of). Anyway, we didn't see that conversation, so we had no idea until that moment that Tyrion knew why Jamie did what he did. Another example - Sansa telling Ramsay that he didn't feed his dogs so now they're starving. But Sansa rode off just before Ramsay made that comment to Jon, so we have to assume that Jon told Sansa about it later (which is perfectly reasonable to me - I don't think it's reasonable to expect to see every single conversation). So I don't the OP is necessarily incorrect in saying that Brienne may know about Jamie and Bran - in fact, that would fit pretty well with how the TV show does things, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. Of course it goes without saying that there is, as yet, no evidence either way and so it may not happen like that at all.  

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