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Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

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21 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

I actually didn't like any of Arya's chapters in the book. They just seemed way too implausible because of her age.  

With her casting, aging up of the character, and the aging of the actress over the last six seasons I'm able to enjoy her chapters.  

I Think this is the first time a movie/tv adaptation actually increased my enjoyment of the source material.  

Yeah, the show is remarkable in a lot of ways.

As I mentioned above, it's probably my favorite t.v. show of all time (in fact, I'd say it is).

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9 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

I mentioned a lot of things previously, but the the notable thing i want to add new the show didn't include Tyrion doing a freakin' blackflip when he met Jon at the feast in the first book.

yeaaaahh If they would of done that in the show I probably would of laughed my ass off lol

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10 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

I mentioned a lot of things previously, but the the notable thing i want to add new the show didn't include Tyrion doing a freakin' blackflip when he met Jon at the feast in the first book.

I'd forgotten all about that until a recent reread. totally one of my favorite WTF moments in the books. 

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In general, I've been okay with the changes, just because I understand it's difficult to properly adapt a series in general, much less ASoIaF. That said, I've got a short list of things I really liked and things I didn't.

Liked:

-Aging up of the children

-Skipping over the travelling (aka Jetpacking), although I do think they could have designed the episodes/scenes a little better

-Bronn

-Brienne/Hound

-Brienne executing Stannis (to be fair on two points - we don't know if that's how Stannis dies in the books, and Renly is one of my favorites so I've always been a little bitter about Stannis, so yeah.) 

 

Didn't like:

-Lack of prophecies/Azor Ahai/TPTWP (It shouldn't matter if D&D like it or not, it's a big part of the books, so it should be in the show also, plus the omitting of the valonqar part of Cersei's prophecy)

-The rapes (Not talking about Sansa, although that was pretty fucked up, but talking about Jaime raping Cersei and Drogo raping Daenerys when neither happened in the books)

-Getting rid of Arya and Jon's warging

-The whole Dorne storyline (Cutting out Arianne was a mistake, but the whole sand snakes thing was just pathetic, it almost feels like they did it on purpose)

-Loras Tyrell (really hate the whole anti-gay storyline)

-No Lady Stoneheart

 

The rest, I can live with.

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9 hours ago, Cron said:

I loved all of Brienne's POV chapters in the book(s).

Indeed, she may be one of my top 5 favorite characters (certainly top 7 or so).

She's a CLASSIC questing knight of high honor and integrity, arguably the "purest good" character in the entire series.  She's incredibly loyal, and her backstory makes her very interesting and sympathetic to me.

:D

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6 hours ago, braveniler58 said:

In general, I've been okay with the changes, just because I understand it's difficult to properly adapt a series in general, much less ASoIaF. That said, I've got a short list of things I really liked and things I didn't.

Liked:

-Aging up of the children

-Skipping over the travelling (aka Jetpacking), although I do think they could have designed the episodes/scenes a little better

-Bronn

-Brienne/Hound

-Brienne executing Stannis (to be fair on two points - we don't know if that's how Stannis dies in the books, and Renly is one of my favorites so I've always been a little bitter about Stannis, so yeah.) 

 

Didn't like:

-Lack of prophecies/Azor Ahai/TPTWP (It shouldn't matter if D&D like it or not, it's a big part of the books, so it should be in the show also, plus the omitting of the valonqar part of Cersei's prophecy)

-The rapes (Not talking about Sansa, although that was pretty fucked up, but talking about Jaime raping Cersei and Drogo raping Daenerys when neither happened in the books)

-Getting rid of Arya and Jon's warging

-The whole Dorne storyline (Cutting out Arianne was a mistake, but the whole sand snakes thing was just pathetic, it almost feels like they did it on purpose)

-Loras Tyrell (really hate the whole anti-gay storyline)

-No Lady Stoneheart

 

The rest, I can live with.

Great post, I read it all with interest, lotta food for thought

Regarding the Dorne stuff in particular:  I agree completely about Arianne (I was shocked when I discovered she had been omitted from the show), but believe it or not, I'm probably one of the very rare people who enjoyed the Dorne storyline in Season 5 (which probably puts me in about a 5% minority among book readers, I'd guess.  Maybe less.)  The only part I didn't like was when Myrcella died at the end, but of course she's doomed anyway, it is prophecy from GRRM himself.

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Starting with Season 1 and mostly throughout, for me most of the characters are just fundamentally more likable than their book counterparts.  Sometimes this is because of whitewashing / altering their appearance and/or personality (like Tyrion, for example).  

But sometimes it's just because of the fact that I'm looking at a skilled actor physically portraying a character I already have a connection to.  I also felt this way as well watching the Lord of the Rings movies.  There's something unavoidably distant and abstract about book characters, and conversely something more intimate and real about having the visuals. 

Getting rid of LSH and severely streamlining ADwD, AFfC, and some of TWoW were great choices the show made.  I have eventually even come around to the idea of replacing Jeyne with Sansa (I was always on board with her going to Winterfell...  just not so much the actually marries Ramsey and gets raped part)...  

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48 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Starting with Season 1 and mostly throughout, for me most of the characters are just fundamentally more likable than their book counterparts.  Sometimes this is because of whitewashing / altering their appearance and/or personality (like Tyrion, for example).  

But sometimes it's just because of the fact that I'm looking at a skilled actor physically portraying a character I already have a connection to.  I also felt this way as well watching the Lord of the Rings movies.  There's something unavoidably distant and abstract about book characters, and conversely something more intimate and real about having the visuals. 

Getting rid of LSH and severely streamlining ADwD, AFfC, and some of TWoW were great choices the show made.  I have eventually even come around to the idea of replacing Jeyne with Sansa (I was always on board with her going to Winterfell...  just not so much the actually marries Ramsey and gets raped part)...  

Very interesting stuff.

Based on comments in this thread, perhaps I've not consciously placed enough value on the "change of medium" itself, which provides some things the books simply CANNOT.

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8 hours ago, braveniler58 said:

In general, I've been okay with the changes, just because I understand it's difficult to properly adapt a series in general, much less ASoIaF. That said, I've got a short list of things I really liked and things I didn't.

Liked:

-Aging up of the children

-Skipping over the travelling (aka Jetpacking), although I do think they could have designed the episodes/scenes a little better

-Bronn

-Brienne/Hound

-Brienne executing Stannis (to be fair on two points - we don't know if that's how Stannis dies in the books, and Renly is one of my favorites so I've always been a little bitter about Stannis, so yeah.) 

 

Didn't like:

-Lack of prophecies/Azor Ahai/TPTWP (It shouldn't matter if D&D like it or not, it's a big part of the books, so it should be in the show also, plus the omitting of the valonqar part of Cersei's prophecy)

-The rapes (Not talking about Sansa, although that was pretty fucked up, but talking about Jaime raping Cersei and Drogo raping Daenerys when neither happened in the books)

-Getting rid of Arya and Jon's warging

-The whole Dorne storyline (Cutting out Arianne was a mistake, but the whole sand snakes thing was just pathetic, it almost feels like they did it on purpose)

-Loras Tyrell (really hate the whole anti-gay storyline)

-No Lady Stoneheart

 

The rest, I can live with.

 

I actually may be in the minority but I was quite pleased they omitted Arya and Jon's warging. Bran is one of my favourite characters in both the book and show and I have always found him and his story fascinating. This in itself is rare because I generally prefer the political/scheming aspect of asoiaf/GoT than the fantasy element. I felt omitting their warging abilities made Bran seem that much more special and powerful. Saying that I did not like the general exclusion of direwolves though but I can understand the financial motives behind this. 

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9 hours ago, braveniler58 said:

 

Didn't like:

 

-The rapes (Not talking about Sansa, although that was pretty fucked up, but talking about Jaime raping Cersei and Drogo raping Daenerys when neither happened in the books)

 

I actually was re-reading the books, and while I can't even begin to defend other rapes, I can understand why they did the one where Drogo raped Dany on their wedding night. In the books, its kind of weird. First, he is inexplicably gentle with her on her first night and then immediately after he starts mercilessly raping her on daily basis till she gets some pointers and takes control like in the show. In the show, the sequence is far more believable.

***************

I liked: 

Removal of Tyrion acrobatic antics

Aging up children 

No Travelogues, I could barely get over Brianne's chapters. Though lately the jumps between scenes became far more abrupt with less transitioning

Removal of filler characters- fAegon, JonCon, etc

 

Disliked:

The first few seasons sextopositions. I understood that they had to add some explanation, but those scenes were jarring. I am glad they stopped doing that after 2nd-3rd season?

Dorne obviously. But I can't blame them while Sand Snakes and Doran conspiracy sounds cool so far, I expect it would end up being big fat nothing. 

Rape of Sansa, they probably could have done something better with her even if they couldn't leave her as in books in Vale, which would have basically took her out of show till last seasons. Just disliked that they didn't get her growth sequence properly. It would have been far better, if they didn't have the ending they did with "dark Sansa" in season 4. If they left it as in books, her still under control of her "father" it would have been far more believable.

Unnecessary trolling. They gone out on a campaign that "Dead is Dead" for whole year, while EVERYONE knew he was coming back. That was just silly. They could have been just coy and secretive and it would have been enough to spark the same fan frenzy. Now they are doing the same with Sansa vs Jon, since its obvious that in the end she will NOT turn against him, but they are playing and implying that she will.

Getting rid of Jon and Arya's warging. They might have had couple of scenes to imply that they had little talent there and that it was a family trait, but Bran was the exception and Sansa didn't have it. Or they could have implied that Bran awoke that in them like he did with Jon in the books.

Cersei's valonqar prophecy. It would have added a bit more speculation about Jaime or Tyrion killing Cersei in the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Lord Oaf of Highgarden said:

 

I actually may be in the minority but I was quite pleased they omitted Arya and Jon's warging. Bran is one of my favourite characters in both the book and show and I have always found him and his story fascinating. This in itself is rare because I generally prefer the political/scheming aspect of asoiaf/GoT than the fantasy element. I felt omitting their warging abilities made Bran seem that much more special and powerful. Saying that I did not like the general exclusion of direwolves though but I can understand the financial motives behind this. 

Hmmm...interesting.

If I had made the show, I would have left Arya and Jon's warging in, but it's not a huge loss.

Even in the books, Bran is still very special.  HIs warging is extremely powerful (his ability to warg a human, Hodor, is, I think, basically unheard of) and of course he's a greenseer on top of it.

But again, leaving out Jon and Arya's warging was not a huge loss to me.

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I liked the way Ned Stark and his demise were portrayed in the show better. In the books, because its more nuanced you can see it coming from a while off. In the show its much more shocking (which is good shock in this case). This is helped by Ned being much more of a central character in the season 1 of the show than Ned is a POV in the books. 

Edited by RUSSELL BELL

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On 8/17/2016 at 1:18 PM, Masha said:

Disliked:

Cersei's valonqar prophecy. It would have added a bit more speculation about Jaime or Tyrion killing Cersei in the end.

I think this would have been too, too obvious and reveal too much if they include it. And judging by the way Jaime looks at Cersei in the finale, this mark off the bat.

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On 8/19/2016 at 7:20 AM, RUSSELL BELL said:

I liked the way Ned Stark and his demise were portrayed in the show better. In the books, because its more nuanced you can see it coming from a while off. In the show its much more shocking (which is good shock in this case). This is helped by Ned being much more of a central character in the season 1 of the show than Ned is a POV in the books. 

It's interesting to think about Ned.

He was such a pivotal character early on (book and show), but he's been gone so long.   It's hard to believe he was only in (I believe) 8 out of 60 episodes (only about 13% of the show)

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On 8/17/2016 at 11:57 AM, Lord Oaf of Highgarden said:

 

I actually may be in the minority but I was quite pleased they omitted Arya and Jon's warging. Bran is one of my favourite characters in both the book and show and I have always found him and his story fascinating. This in itself is rare because I generally prefer the political/scheming aspect of asoiaf/GoT than the fantasy element. I felt omitting their warging abilities made Bran seem that much more special and powerful. Saying that I did not like the general exclusion of direwolves though but I can understand the financial motives behind this. 

I agree completely. I thought Arya and Jon's warging made Bran's a lot less interesting. The general lack of magic compared to the books is an additional plus for me.

Positives

- Less warging

- Removal of "where do whores go?"

- Hardhome, Wall storyline in general

Negatives

- Dorne

- Conclusion of Stannis' arc

- Euron

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On 14 août 2016 at 2:43 PM, Woman of War said:

Cersei

She is far more complex, more subtle and more relatable than in the books. In short she is far more interesting and Lena Headey has a huge part in it.

Tywin

His show only scenes with Jaime and Arya were awesome. Charles Dance!

Sansa's story

I prefer Sansa's show story to her book story - so far since I am quite sure that she will get more into the center of attention in the books as well. I guess she will have some ugly experiences in the books too, Martin won't spare her, no more than any other character. Sansa won't go on organizing parties, her book story will be as interesting and as  gruesome as her show story already is.

Margaery

Natalie Dormer's  grown up, clever and sexy Margaery was great.

Hardhome and the battle of the bastards.

I generally prefer that the young characters are older in the show.

I like it that they presented Daenerys' wedding night as what it was: rape. Here Martin in my eyes did a misstep: A frightened and shy  thirteen year old girl getting aroused by a guy who gropes her when she has no choice in It - that is a juicy fantasy for those who love scenarios where virginal girls are "introduced" by a superior aand strong male. Wet dream as long as it stays a fantasy. But In reality a scenario like that is rape and abuse. Now back then when Martin wrote the books we were not aware as much as today of children forcibly  married, women enslaved by terrorists etc. Today Martin might decide to do the scene differently and I am glad that the show did, given the present political situation. Otherwise I would call it rape apology. Be aware that I am not against showing atrocities within a timesetting like that as long as they are presented as atrocities. Shireen's burning was certainly the cruelest of all and it will probably happen in the books as well.

KFC Inn

Show Shae 

Tyrion and Dany have met!

 

 

Cersei better in the show? I actually think there is some nuance to her in the books, because we learn what drives her: the fact she hates being a woman, which is central in her character and is absent of the show mainly. I disagree with most of your points anyway, especially the Sansa stuff, but I agree about the great acting of Tywin and Margeary.

On 15 août 2016 at 11:26 PM, Darkstream said:

 

The King's procession arriving at Winterfell in the first episode.

The Moon Door being in the floor instead of the wall.

Ned's encounter with Jaime in King's Landing, returning from the brothel. I don't think it was necessarily better in the show, and I prefer the book version, but I think it was the right decision for the medium.

And count me as another :thumbsdown: for Bronn. 

I never thought about the Moon Door, but in my recent reread when I saw it was on the wall I thought it was weird, I agree completely!

On 16 août 2016 at 9:50 AM, JonSnowed said:

In my opinion there are several things the show does better than the books:

- Hardholme (obvious choice)

- Cutting most of the crap from Tyrions journey to Meereen.

- Some scenes are better visually (particuarly those in the North in early seasons which were shot in Iceland).

- Battle for the Wall I felt was done better in the show than the books.

- No Quentyn, Aerys Oakheart and some of the other seemingly pointless stuff from AFFC/ADWD.

 

Equally there are things the books do better than the show.

Quentyn, Aerys etc. are pointless for you? I think their POVs help us learn a lot about Dorne, about the Free Cities, about duty and a lot of themes. I really liked them (even if Quentyn is a bit of a moron at the end). 

On 17 août 2016 at 9:06 AM, Cron said:

Great post, I read it all with interest, lotta food for thought

Regarding the Dorne stuff in particular:  I agree completely about Arianne (I was shocked when I discovered she had been omitted from the show), but believe it or not, I'm probably one of the very rare people who enjoyed the Dorne storyline in Season 5 (which probably puts me in about a 5% minority among book readers, I'd guess.  Maybe less.)  The only part I didn't like was when Myrcella died at the end, but of course she's doomed anyway, it is prophecy from GRRM himself.

I'm curious: why do you like the Dorne plots in the show? I really want to understand how someone can like them.

On 19 août 2016 at 6:20 AM, RUSSELL BELL said:

I liked the way Ned Stark and his demise were portrayed in the show better. In the books, because its more nuanced you can see it coming from a while off. In the show its much more shocking (which is good shock in this case). This is helped by Ned being much more of a central character in the season 1 of the show than Ned is a POV in the books. 

In the first book Ned is clearly the central character, he has a lot of POVs.

 

 

As for the OP question:

I liked Bronn in the beginning, but now they use it way too much. I liked the Tywin/Arya scenes, the aging of the characters and I liked The Hound/Brienne. Oberyn was also great, way better than in the books I think. There might be a few things here and there, but I don't like the show a lot so...

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1 hour ago, Anton Martell said:

I'm curious: why do you like the Dorne plots in the show? I really want to understand how someone can like them.

 

Well, it's a matter of personal preference, and I surely do not expect to change anyone else's mind about the Dorne scenes (since I beileve so many people have already formed a strong opinion that they are to be reviled), but here's my answer:

There are many characters I like on the show, but I like Jaime a lot, and I like Bronn a lot and I like the interaction between them a LOT.  I think they complement each other well, cuz their personalities and desires are SO different, and I think it's cool how Bronn is kind of a link between Jaime and Tyrion (since in the show, Bronn has been very good friends with both Lannister brothers, even though Jaime and Tyrion themselves are so very different).  So I liked the Dorne scenes cuz we got to see a lot of Jaime and Bronn.

I'm fine with the Sand Snakes, loved their interaction with Bronn; loved the dinner scene while Jaime was talking with Doran, loved when they brought Bronn in and Areo Hotah decked him.  I loved seeing how Trystane and Myrcella were in love, and how happy they both were in Dorne together.  I loved seeing Dorne, Sunspear, the Water Gardens, and we would have had far less opportunity to see those great places if Jaime and Bronn had not gone to Dorne.

I loved the scene with Jaime and Myrcella (before they left on the ship; this scene was in Myrcella's room, I believe), thought it was funny to see Jaime trying to deal with Myrcella in the role of a father (even though at that time the secret was not yet open between Jaime and Myrcella), and I enjoy re-watchiing that scene knowing Myrcella knew all along that Jaime was her father.

Only things I can think of that I DIDN'T like about the Dorne scenes:  Omission of Arianne that Kingsguard, and Darkstar, and the death of Myrcella, which was really a bogus way to end the trip.

Edited by Cron

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1 hour ago, Cron said:

Well, it's a matter of personal preference, and I surely do not expect to change anyone else's mind about the Dorne scenes (since I beileve so many people have already formed a strong opinion that they are to be reviled), but here's my answer:

There are many characters I like on the show, but I like Jaime a lot, and I like Bronn a lot and I like the interaction between them a LOT.  I think they complement each other well, cuz their personalities and desires are SO different, and I think it's cool how Bronn is kind of a link between Jaime and Tyrion (since in the show, Bronn has been very good friends with both Lannister brothers, even though Jaime and Tyrion themselves are so very different).  So I liked the Dorne scenes cuz we got to see a lot of Jaime and Bronn.

I'm fine with the Sand Snakes, loved their interaction with Bronn; loved the dinner scene while Jaime was talking with Doran, loved when they brought Bronn in and Areo Hotah decked him.  I loved seeing how Trystane and Myrcella were in love, and how happy they both were in Dorne together.  I loved seeing Dorne, Sunspear, the Water Gardens, and we would have had far less opportunity to see those great places if Jaime and Bronn had not gone to Dorne.

I loved the scene with Jaime and Myrcella (before they left on the ship; this scene was in Myrcella's room, I believe), thought it was funny to see Jaime trying to deal with Myrcella in the role of a father (even though at that time the secret was not yet open between Jaime and Myrcella), and I enjoy re-watchiing that scene knowing Myrcella knew all along that Jaime was her father.

Only things I can think of that I DIDN'T like about the Dorne scenes:  Omission of Arianne that Kingsguard, and Darkstar, and the death of Myrcella, which was really a bogus way to end the trip.

I didn't like Dorne, and I think most people at their core don't almost purely bc the fight scene between the 5 was choreographed so poorly. That and "bad poooosy" were both so meme-able that it ruined the entire plotline.

In addition, the Book's Dorne plotline is so awesome and Doran's fire and blood impact is much better. He, Trystane, and Myrcella and Areo all dying really sour it for me.

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7 minutes ago, MakeWesterosGreatAgain said:

I didn't like Dorne, and I think most people at their core don't almost purely bc the fight scene between the 5 was choreographed so poorly. That and "bad poooosy" were both so meme-able that it ruined the entire plotline.

In addition, the Book's Dorne plotline is so awesome and Doran's fire and blood impact is much better. He, Trystane, and Myrcella and Areo all dying really sour it for me.

I think a lot of people reacted really negatively to the Dorne scenes in Season 5 b/c it was the first really major departure from the books (unless I'm forgetting something else, I guess.  Talisa was a big replacement for Jeyne Westerling, but Jeyne was not even that major a character in the books.  The Dorne stuff, though, was a major departure that lasted pretty much an entire season for a few major characters, and even more "second tier" characters).  in sum, I think a lot of "purist" fans had an almost immediate VERY strong reaction against it.

In my opinion, many people were already harshly opposed to the Dorne sub-plot long before the fight scene you mention, and LONG before the Sand Snake's farewell to Bronn, the latter of which happened very close to the end of the sub-plot.

But hey, I'm just making conversation, and it's highly subjective.

Maybe I'm underestimating the impact of those scenes.  

Certainly I acknowledge that I believe I'm in a VERY tiny minority who actually liked the Dorne stuff.

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2 minutes ago, Cron said:

I think a lot of people reacted really negatively to the Dorne scenes in Season 5 b/c it was the first really major departure from the books (unless I'm forgetting something else, I guess.  Talisa was a big replacement for Jeyne Westerling, but Jeyne was not even that major a character in the books.  The Dorne stuff, though, was a major departure that lasted pretty much an entire season for a few major characters, and even more "second tier" characters).  in sum, I think a lot of "purist" fans had an almost immediate VERY strong reaction against it.

In my opinion, many people were already harshly opposed to the Dorne sub-plot long before the fight scene you mention, and LONG before the Sand Snake's farewell to Bronn, the latter of which happened very close to the end of the sub-plot.

But hey, I'm just making conversation, and it's highly subjective.

Maybe I'm underestimating the impact of those scenes.  

Certainly I acknowledge that I believe I'm in a VERY tiny minority who actually liked the Dorne stuff.

Yeah, I admittedly read the books as Dorne developed in the show so my POV is different. The dorne plotline in the books is really good IMHO and it's one of my favorites so I hated seeing it cut. 

I think show-Dorne had a lot of problems but Bronn/Jaime and the first fight scene where he blocks the sword with his golden hand were great.

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