Bonkers

Possible ways forward from Alayne sample chapter...

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In the feast a huge lemon cake is made and usually lemons mean sadness and bitterness in this story. So I expect Sansa's plans to fail in the upcoming tourney.This could mean anything, like Harry will be killed/dishonored/arrested, Robert will die,Sansa realizing  Littlefinger is using her,Myranda becoming extremely jealous of her. In the end Sansa will have to adjust to the new situation by using her wits.

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2 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

In the feast a huge lemon cake is made and usually lemons mean sadness and bitterness in this story. 

Since when?

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7 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Since when?

I can't find the exact text of that theory but it's meaning is that lemons in ASOIAF usually mean bitterness mixed with innocence.Examples:

  • The lemon tree in the house with the red door symbolizes Dany's lost childhood
  • Sansa puts some perfume with lemon and waits to go to Highgarden but some time later is forced to marry Tyrion (SOS, Sansa III).

 

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On 3/1/2017 at 9:26 AM, Colonel Green said:

Kettleblack is an agent of Littlefinger working against her, but Lancel, fair enough.

He is a freelancer, true style, LF didn't tell him to kill the old High Septon, Cersei did.

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Posted (edited)

The way I see it, LittleFinger's plan has been laid out for us through what he explains to Sansa. He is betting on Sansa marrying Harry. However his plan up to this point includes a hedge knight who most likely realizes Alayne is Sansa, so if plans fall apart (harry dies or refuses, he is no longer suitable, or Sansa refuses, LF is accused of something) and if Shadrich figures it will then he may attempt to steal Sansa himself which could be smooth or death. LittleFinger's has also included Nestor Royce. I believe that even though LF won him over by giving him a lordship, he is suspicious of LF. His daughter Myranda attempted to pry out info from Alayne about herself and LF. I think this is an obvious sign that Royce suspects something, Sansa needs to be careful around Myranda. If Royce finds out then he may try detain Sansa. LittleFinger openly admitted to Sansa that Lyn Corbray is his man too. Lyn seems satisfied with coin and sex He's at the tournament but his task as explained by LF is to learn of any conspiracy by the Vale Lords against LF. Sansa's path foretold by LittleFinger is probably NOT gonna work out, either Harry dies or someone discovers who Alayne is before the marriage is arranged, or perhaps LF is jeopardized with evidence, killing Lysa. Overall this is gonna be huge and I cannot wait. A great moment crafted by the author himself. Tell everyone the plan which everyone is dying to want happen but immediately creates doubts and plays on our paranoia.

Now if LF's plan goes to shit then Sansa will probably attempt or find opportunity to release herself from LF.

Edited by Zulaica

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On 4/3/2017 at 2:15 PM, Whitering said:

He is a freelancer, true style, LF didn't tell him to kill the old High Septon, Cersei did.

No, Littlefinger had him infiltrate Cersei's household and become one of her minions.  There's no conflict between those directives.

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16 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

No, Littlefinger had him infiltrate Cersei's household and become one of her minions.  There's no conflict between those directives.

Wait until one of them tells the High Septon (because he's being tortured), that Littlefinger is pulling his strings.

I mean, I know what you are saying there, I wonder if LF would have supported that action? Probably.

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On 3/23/2017 at 1:41 AM, Endymion I Targaryen said:

In the feast a huge lemon cake is made and usually lemons mean sadness and bitterness in this story. So I expect Sansa's plans to fail in the upcoming tourney.This could mean anything, like Harry will be killed/dishonored/arrested, Robert will die,Sansa realizing  Littlefinger is using her,Myranda becoming extremely jealous of her. In the end Sansa will have to adjust to the new situation by using her wits.

Lemons.

I associate lemons with false pasts, and treachery.

Danaerys' infamous lemon tree memory,

Quote

"We will have it all back someday, sweet sister," he would promise her. Sometimes his hands shook when he talked about it. "The jewels and the silks, Dragonstone and King's Landing, the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms, all they have taken from us, we will have it back." Viserys lived for that day. All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.

AGOT Danaerys I

 

the death of the Old Bear, that lemon lover,

Quote

Jon opened a shuttered window, took the flagon of beer off the outside ledge, and filled a horn. Hobb had given him a lemon, still cold from the Wall. Jon crushed it in his fist. The juice trickled through his fingers. Mormont drank lemon in his beer every day, and claimed that was why he still had his own teeth.

AGOT Jon IX

and, of course, Sansa Stark

Quote

Sansa did not like being interrupted, but she had to admit, lemon cakes sounded more interesting than most of what had gone on in the throne room. "Let's see," she said.

 

AGOT Sansa III

 

In any case,  that monstrous 'subtlety', a 12 foot high representation of the Giant's Lance, is made of lemon cake and forms part of a banquet on the eve of a tourney where we may expect many diverse things to happen, almost happen and be prevented from happening.

 

 

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I wish I could remember that topic that discussed this, but someone had a great analogy regarding Littlefinger's method. The premise was people see a boat with a hole in it and so they reject it as useless, but Littlefinger hops into the boat and paddles to the next sinking boat, and then to the next, and on and on. The point being that he attaches himself to opportunities or circumstances, even flimsy ones, and uses them to propel himself to the next advantageous situation. Deconstructed a little further, while he may have convinced some of the lords of the Vale (Specifically Lady... Waynwood? her name is escaping me right now) that his intention is to marry his bastard daughter to Harry the Heir, he could just be using that pretense to accomplish something else. I guess that would make the betrothal a red herring of sorts? A distraction from what he actually intends to accomplish. '

While I do believe Sansa's arc is now in a place where Petyr will be a mentor to her, he's still not likely to confide the complete truth with her. He needs her to play the part as the eligible maid for Harry to complete his plan, so he spins her a tale about a beautiful wedding where she's dramatically revealed to the lords of the Vale as a Stark and everything is sweetness and light. To me, including all those details about a wedding was his way of manipulating her into compliance. I don't think the kind of game Petyr plays can be taught directly, but as Sansa sees things unfold she will learn.

What is that next step in is plan? I have no idea. I do think he would like to have her for himself in the end, so marrying her off to Harry seems like an odd choice. But, being a flesh peddler, maybe he doesn't mind having "used goods," so to speak. I have enjoyed reading other people's thoughts on the future for Sansa. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry dies in the tourney, or something else dramatic happens. I forget who Petyr was speaking to when Alayne visits him in the beginning, perhaps that would clue is in to something.

What excites me most about Sansa's chapters is we will get more and more insights into Littlefinger, as he has proven himself to be quite the chessmaster. Don't get me wrong, I've always liked Sansa as well. It'll be nice to see her become a player instead of a pawn. It'd be interesting to have a POV counterpart interacting with Varys in future chapters, as I think it all ultimately boils down him and LF.

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On 09.02.2017 at 6:33 AM, PCK said:

Sansa and the reader both should quickly realize that Harry inheriting the Vale is not in LF's interest.

 

But isn't that his initial plan? At least that's what I got from him in AFFC.

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6 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But isn't that his initial plan? At least that's what I got from him in AFFC.

"Do and say things that appear to go against my interests." He means to off Harry at some point. My first thought was when the Vale went to take back WF, but possibly sooner. The one really being replaced is Robert Arryn. He could marry Sansa after she gets pregnant with Harry's heir. Harry the heir, Harrold Hardying almost does sound like red herring.

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