Moments of Foreshadowing v.12

[divica]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Nice.

As to Benerro's warning...

Tyrion VII, Dance 27

In-story, this appears to be intended to stoke support for Daenerys and against the ruling class in Volantis, paving the way for a slave revolt. 

However, I like the way you connect it to the warnings of Moqorro and Quaithe, as if all three of them are seeing shadows of the same threats. So what those threats?

In-story, the dark eye is the great other. The minions of night are those who do his bidding whether wittingly or unwittingly. In this case the ruling class of Volantis. Presumably, the ruling class either prays to different gods, or they fail to show sufficient devotion to R'hllor, thus praying to false gods in temples of deceit. The godless outlanders would be their hired mercenaries and the Ghiscari allies. 

If the dark eye is the same as Quaithe’s kraken, and Moqorro's tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, then the minions of the night would be the Ironmen who pray to the Downed God. But who would be the godless outlanders? If Victarion allies with the Dothraki, they are not likely to betray Daenerys. 

The godless outlanders are probably euron and those that have followed him since the beguining. He is considered to be godless and has relations to people in essos. So it makes sense if the masters or some of their allies are conspiring with euron (that just happened to send a dragon binding horn to meereen to steal danny dragons) against danny. It is just a matter of knowing who are euron allies...

[LynnS]

12 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I would suggest that Euron is the dark eye, and his emissary Vicarion and the Iron fleet are represented by the “godless outlanders”.

As for the temples of deceit...

I believe the Warlocks and whatever their version of the Old Gods is, are the minions of night (shade of the evening) and their houses the temples of deceit.

Do you think that Euron has been inside the HoU and left something of himself behind?  Is he the kingly man that Dany's sees and is this why he doesn't go to Dany himself?  Would she recognize him?

Why does Euron wear a black patch or a red patch?  

Spoiler

He starts out as the crow's eye (the black eye) and ends up as the blood eye and no longer wears a patch at all. 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

24 minutes ago, LynnS said:

How many black roads are there leading from Volantis? Ten?

  Reveal hidden contents

Then there is Aeron's vision of Euron commanding Kraken's, sphynxes, manticores etc.

I'm guessing that Euron is allied with the dark eye in Volantis.

That would be very, very interesting. I don't believe I have seen that suggested before. Can you elaborate? Or is it just a hunch? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

17 minutes ago, divica said:

The godless outlanders are probably euron and those that have followed him since the beguining. He is considered to be godless and has relations to people in essos. So it makes sense if the masters or some of their allies are conspiring with euron (that just happened to send a dragon binding horn to meereen to steal danny dragons) against danny. It is just a matter of knowing who are euron allies...

Hmm... Maybe so. 

[LynnS]

11 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

That would be very, very interesting. I don't believe I have seen that suggested before. Can you elaborate? Or is it just a hunch? 

Spoiler

This bit about blowing a horn and Krakens, dragons, sphynx, manticores comes from Aeron's shade of the evening vision in the Foresaken chapter.

So I found it curious that Tyrion passes a gate in Volantis with these creatures carved on the gate.  So I'm not sure what the dragon-binding horn actually does or who will be answering the horn's call.  But they seem to be allies of Volantis.  I'm guessing that Dany will go to war with Volantis and Euron will be there.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

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This bit about blowing a horn and Krakens, dragons, sphynx, manticores comes from Aeron's shade of the evening vision in the Foresaken chapter.

So I found it curious that Tyrion passes a gate in Volantis with these creatures carved on the gate.  So I'm not sure what the dragon-binding horn actually does or who will be answering the horn's call.  But they seem to be allies of Volantis.  I'm guessing that Dany will go to war with Volantis and Euron will be there.

Hmmm. Interesting convo going on right now.

One thing about Volantis and Meereen, doesn't the Demon road connect the two? I forsee Daenerys traveling the Demon road to Volantis for this war.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

34 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Do you think that Euron has been inside the HoU and left something of himself behind?  Is he the kingly man that Dany's sees and is this why he doesn't go to Dany himself?  Would she recognize him?

I believe the kingly man who greets her in the false heart room is one of the Undying Dany meets in the last room... that vision being more of how the Undying see themselves than anything else, the dream version of the Undying, all lies of course. Just like Bloodraven’s lair, it is a place of darkness and bones.

So no I don’t think it’s Euron.

But I’m not at all sure if he’s been in the House of the Undying.

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Why does Euron wear a black patch or a red patch?  

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He starts out as the crow's eye (the black eye) and ends up as the blood eye and no longer wears a patch at all. 

 

I don’t understand the end there...

Euron has one blue eye and one black eye (he covers with a patch, red or black leather)... 

what do you mean by blood eye?

[LynnS]

18 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I don’t understand the end there...

Euron has one blue eye and one black eye (he covers with a patch, red or black leather)... 

what do you mean by blood eye?

I'm sorry.  Maybe you haven't read the Foresaken chapter from TWOW?  Maybe I shouldn't say any more.

Spoiler

In the Foresaken chapter, Euron stops wearing an eye patch altogether and he is no longer called the Crow's Eye but the Blood Eye. This also seems a reference to his personal sigil. 

 

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell V

"Who would be so mad as to raid this close to Oldtown?"

Xhondo pointed at a half-sunken longship in the shallows. The remnants of a banner drooped from her stern, smoke-stained and ragged. The charge was one Sam had never seen before: a red eye with a black pupil, beneath a black iron crown supported by two crows. "Whose banner is that?" Sam asked. Xhondo only shrugged.

 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

32 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm sorry.  Maybe you haven't read the Foresaken chapter from TWOW?  Maybe I shouldn't say any more.

  Reveal hidden contents

In the Foresaken chapter, Euron stops wearing an eye patch altogether and he is no longer called the Crow's Eye but the Blood Eye. This also seems a reference to his personal sigil. 

 

http://nationaleclipse.com/images/eclipse1.png

It’s interesting, I always pictured this as a completely blood filled eye... like have you ever seen a vein completely burst in an eye and all the white (sclera) turns red. I hadn’t really thought about it but do you think Euron’s black eye had an iris at all?

Or was it just a black pupil in a white eye, now red?

I see this as a parallel to a black kraken in a sea of blood...

[LynnS]

8 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

It’s interesting, I always pictured this as a completely blood filled eye... like have you ever seen a vein completely burst in an eye and all the white (sclera) turns red. I hadn’t really thought about it but do you think Euron’s black eye had an iris at all?

Or was it just a black pupil in a white eye, now red?

I see this as a parallel to a black kraken in a sea of blood...

I always imagined that Euron had some head trauma after his fall as a boy which caused the pupil of one eye to be permanently dilated.  Hence, the need for a patch and his moniker Crow's Eye.  I'm not sure why this is now the blood eye.  But what does the the sigil suggest?

[LiveFirstDieLater]

15 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I always imagined that Euron had some head trauma after his fall as a boy which caused the pupil of one eye to be permanently dilated.  Hence, the need for a patch and his moniker Crow's Eye.

I like that!

15 minutes ago, LynnS said:

  I'm not sure why this is now the blood eye.  But what does the the sigil suggest?

Having seen the white of someone’s eye turn red, it does look something like a bloody tide... 

As for the sigil, it’s unavoidably reminiscent of Sauron... 

bit the crows suspending a crown is interesting, especially because we know the “crows” of the nights watch have sworn off crowns...

who do you think the shadow lady with white flames is?

[LynnS]

20 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I like that!

Having seen the white of someone’s eye turn red, it does look something like a bloody tide... 

As for the sigil, it’s unavoidably reminiscent of Sauron... 

bit the crows suspending a crown is interesting, especially because we know the “crows” of the nights watch have sworn off crowns...

who do you think the shadow lady with white flames is?

Definately reminiscent of Sauron.  The original sigil in the wiki was a cat's eye pupil, but I see that's been changed.

If I recall, the shadow lady has pale hands and for some reason, I think it's Melisandre because she is often described that way.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

  Hide contents

This bit about blowing a horn and Krakens, dragons, sphynx, manticores comes from Aeron's shade of the evening vision in the Foresaken chapter.

So I found it curious that Tyrion passes a gate in Volantis with these creatures carved on the gate.  So I'm not sure what the dragon-binding horn actually does or who will be answering the horn's call.  But they seem to be allies of Volantis.  I'm guessing that Dany will go to war with Volantis and Euron will be there.

I don't know... There are no krakens mentioned in Volantis and

Spoiler

there are no manticores mentioned in Aeron's vision. 

In Vaes Dothrak, we have dragons, griffins, manticores, and other beasts that Daenerys couldn't name. In Qarth, we have griffins, dragons, and manticores. And on Dragonstone, we have wyverns, griffins, demons, manticores, minotaurs, basilisks, hellhounds, cockatrices, and a thousand queer creatures. 

[LynnS]

8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't know... There are no krakens mentioned in Volantis and

  Hide contents

there are no manticores mentioned in Aeron's vision. 

In Vaes Dothrak, we have dragons, griffins, manticores, and other beasts that Daenerys couldn't name. In Qarth, we have griffins, dragons, and manticores. And on Dragonstone, we have wyverns, griffins, demons, manticores, minotaurs, basilisks, hellhounds, cockatrices, and a thousand queer creatures. 

I'd say the krakens are the Iron Born outlanders and we're not really talking about magical beasts although I'm not sure about manticores and dragons. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm sorry.  Maybe you haven't read the Foresaken chapter from TWOW?  Maybe I shouldn't say any more.

  Hide contents

In the Foresaken chapter, Euron stops wearing an eye patch altogether and he is no longer called the Crow's Eye but the Blood Eye. This also seems a reference to his personal sigil. 

 

As of the end of Dance, Euron wears a black patch over his left eye. His right eye is blue--his smiling eye. We don't know the color of Euron's hidden eye, but it should be noted that the Greyjoys tend to have black eyes. 

In Theon, Winds, 

Spoiler

Theon suggests that Euron's hidden eye is black, shining with malice. 

In The Forsaken, Winds, 

Spoiler

Euron wears a red eye patch when he tells Aeon to drink with him. During the vision that followed, Euron covered his smiling eye and showed the world his blood eye, dark and terrible. 

Note that the normally hidden eye is called the blood eye, as opposed to the smiling eye, but it is not described as red; it's dark and terrible. 

And again, Euron is only showing the world his blood eye in Aeron's vision. 

When Euron commands his brother to drink again, Aeron notes that Euron's smiling eye is glittering, blue and bold and full of malice. 

Aeron continues to refer to his brother as the Crow's Eye. No one refers to him as the Blood Eye. 

 

[LynnS]

9 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

As of the end of Dance, Euron wears a black patch over his left eye. His right eye is blue--his smiling eye. We don't know the color of Euron's hidden eye, but it should be noted that the Greyjoys tend to have black eyes. 

In Theon, Winds, 

  Reveal hidden contents

Theon suggests that Euron's hidden eye is black, shining with malice. 

In The Forsaken, Winds, 

  Reveal hidden contents

Euron wears a red eye patch when he tells Aeon to drink with him. During the vision that followed, Euron covered his smiling eye and showed the world his blood eye, dark and terrible. 

Note that the normally hidden eye is called the blood eye, as opposed to the smiling eye, but it is not described as red; it's dark and terrible. 

And again, Euron is only showing the world his blood eye in Aeron's vision. 

When Euron commands his brother to drink again, Aeron notes that Euron's smiling eye is glittering, blue and bold and full of malice. 

Aeron continues to refer to his brother as the Crow's Eye. No one refers to him as the Blood Eye. 

 

I think that makes Euron the dark eye without a doubt.  Oddly, Melisandre never uses that term for the ancient enemy. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

I still don't see the alliance between Euron and the ruling class in Volantis. 

[LynnS]

10 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I still don't see the alliance between Euron and the ruling class in Volantis. 

Boy, you can't find this chapter anymore.  Some digging turns up:

Spoiler

 

He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible. Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him…

Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded…

 

No manticores! LOL

[LiveFirstDieLater]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

Definately reminiscent of Sauron.  The original sigil in the wiki was a cat's eye pupil, but I see that's been changed.

Of course red eyes are another symbol of the Old Gods... especially combined with pale skin.

Also I did see some parallel between the dream of Euron on the iron throne with the gods of all sorts or religions impaled on spikes as super similar to how the Weirwoods impale bones of dreamers... also, no Old Gods among the impaled!

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

If I recall, the shadow lady has pale hands and for some reason, I think it's Melisandre because she is often described that way.

Oh I’m so glad, I agree...

and I think the following passage is very relevant to the conversation... especially since Mel doesn’t seem to mention a dark eye. So while I think she’s often confused/misinterpreting, I’m not sure about identifying the enemy.

I’ll have to keep an eye out for the nameless gods who live in darkness and have pale worms amidst the cold. Hmmmmmmm...

Quote

 

"The war?" asked Davos.

"The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." She clasped the bars of his cell with her slender white hands. The great ruby at her throat seemed to pulse with its own radiance. "So tell me, Ser Davos Seaworth, and tell me truly—does your heart burn with the shining light of R'hllor? Or is it black and cold and full of worms?" She reached through the bars and laid three fingers upon his breast, as if to feel the truth of him through flesh and wool and leather. 

"My heart," Davos said slowly, "is full of doubts."

 

[LynnS]

7 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I’ll have to keep an eye out for the nameless gods who live in darkness and have pale worms amidst the cold. Hmmmmmmm...

 

To which we have this description of Euron:

Spoiler

The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood­-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed…

And this description of Pyat Pree in HoU:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV 

"No," Pyat screeched. "No, to me, come to me, to meeeeeee." His face crumbled inward, changing to something pale and wormlike.