UFT Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 balon and robb could have been just the beginning of everyone deciding "yeah lets just govern ourselves now. screw the iron throne". i find this more poltiically interesting than a united continent and one throne. and robb set a precedent that could have fallen like dominoes. originally they bent the knee to dragons but the dragons are all dead now. in this alternate timeline, cersei and her children are slaughtered by a plot run by baelish (who wants to make chaos, go with it). the war of five kings becomes a mad, chaotic scramble for asserting their new independence and carving up the now leaderless crownlands. robert is king of the mountains. mace is king of the reach. tywin is king of the rock reluctantly. doran retains his title as prince but is basically now a king of dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 What you are proposing is a "Petyr is content with the Vale" scenario He holes up in the Eyre with Lysa and has a few kids by her (IMO her miscarriages are Jon's fault). I agree that the rest could well battle it out. Catelyn's kidnapping of Tyrion has produced a war between the North and Riverlands on one side and Westerlands on the other. Balon being Balon attacks the North. Then gets killed by somebody with a modicum of sense (sense Iron Born style, that is) who then starts raiding much richer targets than the Stony Shore or Cape of Eagles - Westerlands and Reach. In the East Renly and Stannis battle one another for the Crownlands and Stormlands. Stannis being Stannis claims supreme Kingship over Westeros. The Tyrrels could impress upon Renly to do same, thus expanding the Baratheon civil war to include the Reach. The weight of the Reach may win the day for Renly. What happens once Stannis is dead/holed up on Dragonstone depends on events elsewhere. However, maybe Stannis subverts Florent's and Tarly's and there is a civil war inside the Reach too. Dorne - with Doran being Doran - stays on the sidelines. This period in Westerosi history goes down in annals as The Shitstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFT Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 yeah i think stannis is a problem. its too easy however for renly to get a truly gigantic army against stannis and kill him for the stormlands. then it turns into a war between king renly and king tywin for the crownlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Stannis has his Shadow baby wunderwaffe If he offs Renly as per canon he may offer a Shireen-Loras betrothal - Mace happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 7 hours ago, UFT said: balon and robb could have been just the beginning of everyone deciding "yeah lets just govern ourselves now. screw the iron throne". i find this more poltiically interesting than a united continent and one throne. and robb set a precedent that could have fallen like dominoes. originally they bent the knee to dragons but the dragons are all dead now. in this alternate timeline, cersei and her children are slaughtered by a plot run by baelish (who wants to make chaos, go with it). the war of five kings becomes a mad, chaotic scramble for asserting their new independence and carving up the now leaderless crownlands. robert is king of the mountains. mace is king of the reach. tywin is king of the rock reluctantly. doran retains his title as prince but is basically now a king of dorne. "Who are you?" "I am your king." "King, eh? I didn't vote for you." "You don't vote for kings." "Well I want to be king then." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 39 minutes ago, John Suburbs said: "Who are you?" "I am your king." "King, eh? I didn't vote for you." "You don't vote for kings." "Well I want to be king then." Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elder brother jonothor dar Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 10 hours ago, UFT said: balon and robb could have been just the beginning of everyone deciding "yeah lets just govern ourselves now. screw the iron throne". i find this more poltiically interesting than a united continent and one thron. and robb set a precedent that could have fallen like dominoes. I don't get the question all the regions either rebelled or abstained from the crown. Dorne and Vale have annexed themselves from the crown it's just that the crown have not realised it so far. Rulers of each region keep changing (Doran & Mace only exception) and their loyalty changes with each new ruler for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 H&H Magnum Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 12 hours ago, UFT said: balon and robb could have been just the beginning of everyone deciding "yeah lets just govern ourselves now. screw the iron throne". i find this more poltiically interesting than a united continent and one throne. and robb set a precedent that could have fallen like dominoes. originally they bent the knee to dragons but the dragons are all dead now. in this alternate timeline, cersei and her children are slaughtered by a plot run by baelish (who wants to make chaos, go with it). the war of five kings becomes a mad, chaotic scramble for asserting their new independence and carving up the now leaderless crownlands. robert is king of the mountains. mace is king of the reach. tywin is king of the rock reluctantly. doran retains his title as prince but is basically now a king of dorne. Calling yourself a king doesn't make you a king. The land you stand on belongs to the iron throne. You have to take the land first and then the iron throne concedes first before you can be king of the land. Balon and Robb tried but failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpg2016 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 On 7/16/2017 at 5:30 PM, 300 H&H Magnum said: Calling yourself a king doesn't make you a king. The land you stand on belongs to the iron throne. You have to take the land first and then the iron throne concedes first before you can be king of the land. Balon and Robb tried but failed. I think the idea he's proposing is that all the constituent regions of Westeros declared independence and none of them made a play for the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tai Pan Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 When the lords rebel against their king the smallfolk rebelling against their lords won't be far behind. It is for the best in the long-term to just suffer your king until his reign ends. Just so you don't set an example for your vassals. Everyone has to believe that the right to rule is divine. Lords declaring themselves kings will only threaten their right to rule in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpg2016 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Ian Dunross said: When the lords rebel against their king the smallfolk rebelling against their lords won't be far behind. It is for the best in the long-term to just suffer your king until his reign ends. Just so you don't set an example for your vassals. Everyone has to believe that the right to rule is divine. Lords declaring themselves kings will only threaten their right to rule in the long term. This is an absurd and evil philosophy. Why in the world shouldn't Ned Stark rebel against Aerys? He saw Aerys defend is sister's rape and abduction, the imprisonment of his brother, and the murder of same brother and his father. And after all that, he calls for Ned's head, too. Resisting tyranny is legitimate. Saying "just sit it out, and who cares if everyone you love is raped, tortured, and killed?" is immoral. Feudalism is a contract between lord and vassal. If the liege is not holding up his end of the bargain, the contract is no longer valid. Rebelling for no reason, or for purely personal advancement? In that case, you're correct. But it's worth remembering that in the bigger picture, the Starks and Lannisters and Arryns and everyone have always been kings, and their subordinate status to the Iron Throne is very much a blip on the historical radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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