White Ravens

[MizasterJ]

I was wondering, since the Night's watch are often referred to as Crows, and we have lots and lots of animal symbolism...We know that White Ravens are more rare ,larger, and smarter than black ones, and they will fight black ravens if near making them mirror opposites of black ravens.The white ravens are used only by Maesters to signify a change in season so in a sense they represent change.  We have many groups of characters that could conceivably represent a crow or raven, but what person and group of people represent the white ravens? 

[ravenous reader]

1 hour ago, MizasterJ said:

I was wondering, since the Night's watch are often referred to as Crows, and we have lots and lots of animal symbolism...We know that White Ravens are more rare ,larger, and smarter than black ones, and they will fight black ravens if near making them mirror opposites of black ravens.The white ravens are used only by Maesters to signify a change in season so in a sense they represent change.  We have many groups of characters that could conceivably represent a crow or raven, but what person and group of people represent the white ravens? 

The Others who bring and/or accompany the cold, the harbingers of Winter, the 'sword which slays the season' -- the 'white (br)others' to the 'black brothers'!

In fact, we saw a contest between 'black crows' and 'white ravens' in the Prologue,  with the 3 Night's Watch brothers facing off against the 6 Others, respectively.  

Patchface spelled it out:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI

They found Her Grace sewing by the fire, whilst her fool danced about to music only he could hear, the cowbells on his antlers clanging. "The crow, the crow," Patchface cried when he saw Jon. "Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh." Princess Shireen was curled up in a window seat, her hood drawn up to hide the worst of the greyscale that had disfigured her face.

 

[Damon_Tor]

1 hour ago, MizasterJ said:

I was wondering, since the Night's watch are often referred to as Crows, and we have lots and lots of animal symbolism...We know that White Ravens are more rare ,larger, and smarter than black ones, and they will fight black ravens if near making them mirror opposites of black ravens.The white ravens are used only by Maesters to signify a change in season so in a sense they represent change.  We have many groups of characters that could conceivably represent a crow or raven, but what person and group of people represent the white ravens? 

Extremely interesting topic.

I believe the history of Westeros can be best understood as a conflict between the Children of the Forest and a group of humans who are in modern Westeros best identified with the Citadel (but are more properly identified as the houses which predate the First Men, such as Hightower and Dayne.)

Inside the Citadel there appears to be two schools of thought regarding magic: destroy it and deprive their enemy of their most potent weapons, or to harness it for themselves.

The white ravens appear to be a part of the second faction, in which the maesters are hoping to replicate the massive spy network the Children have at their disposal.

[GyantSpyder]

Also the brotherhood of "white cloaks" refers to the Kingsguard.

There may be a symbolic relationship between the Kingsguard and the Others - especially when you consider that the Others live out in the middle of frickin' nowhere, and in the prologue the Night's Watch confronts three Others - and the Tower of Joy is out in the middle of frickin' nowhere, and in the fever dream Ned and his buddies face off against three kingsguard.

And, if the Others need to use human babies to make more Others, there might be a connection with the celibacy clauses of both the Night's Watch oath and the Kingsguard oath.

But if the Others are guarding something important out in the Land of Always Winter, that connection could make even more sense. It doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility for them to have a king - or, like Gerold, Oswell and Arthur - for them to have a dead king and be protecting some legacy of his or hope for the future - or at least some sort of persistence.

If Jaime Lannister ends up abandoning his army and joining the Brotherhood without Banners, they could also become "white cloaks" in the winter (to distinguish them from the yellow cloak of Lem Lemoncloak - Jamie also has two colors to his two identities - the golden-armored lion, and the white-cloaked brother - changing from yellow to white like the Brotherhood, perhaps).

Note also that "Theon Turncloak" - during his traumatic torture, transformation, and rebirth cycle - goes from having dark hair to having white hair. In effect, he turns his cloak from black to white, like the white raven of winter replacing the black raven of the other seasons.

Or, you know, like a rabbit. (that's just a non sequitur)

Theon also is involved in an intense struggle on his own behalf and the behalf of others: "you have to remember your name."

To spin that out - if we look at the Others from a "cold preserves" mentality, and have them off in frickin' nowhere guarding something since the dawn of days - maybe they're the ones who actually know what is (frickin') going on in the world, and they remember their history. Maybe white turncloaks remember their names.

It's interesting to think of the White Book of the Kingsguard - the Book of Brothers - in this context - as the definition of a person coming from what that person does in life, rather than who that person was before. All this starts looking very textured.

It might be interesting to go through the text looking for cloaks or coats that change color from black to white and what they have to do with each other, and with both remembering your past or defining your present.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

The Others who bring and/or accompany the cold, the harbingers of Winter, the 'sword which slays the season' -- the 'white (br)others' to the 'black brothers'!

In fact, we saw a contest between 'black crows' and 'white ravens' in the Prologue,  with the 3 Night's Watch brothers facing off against the 6 Others, respectively.  

Patchface spelled it out:

 

Don't white ravens also herald spring and the end of winter?

[ravenous reader]

Just now, Lost Melnibonean said:

Don't white ravens also herald spring and the end of winter?

I think they might do... @White Ravens once clarified it -- and he would be the one to do so!  

[Jon Ice-Eyes]

One of the symbols of many stages of the alchemical process -- transmuting lead into gold, in a spiritual sense -- is a white bird.

Calcination, dissolution, separation, conjunction, fermentation, distillation, and coagulation are the commonly accepted stages (there are tons of sources that all have their foibles). Each has a set of symbols. A good number involve a white bird ascending, descending, or soaring above... lots of other stuff. 

I interpret the fact that they signal the change in seasons to reinforce this same idea. We are moving through stages, developing towards a transformation.

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Don't white ravens also herald spring and the end of winter?

and summer and autumn 

[White Ravens]

The only knowledge I have of white ravens is that which is presented in the books.  They are used by the Citadel to herald the change of seasons.  Maester Cressen learned that summer had ended and autumn had begun when he received a white raven in the prologue of aCoK.

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Prologue

Shireen gave a brave little nod. "Mother said the white raven means it's not summer anymore."

 

"That is so, my lady. The white ravens fly only from the Citadel." Cressen's fingers went to the chain about his neck, each link forged from a different metal, each symbolizing his mastery of another branch of learning; the maester's collar, mark of his order. In the pride of his youth, he had worn it easily, but now it seemed heavy to him, the metal cold against his skin. "They are larger than other ravens, and more clever, bred to carry only the most important messages. This one came to tell us that the Conclave has met, considered the reports and measurements made by maesters all over the realm, and declared this great summer done at last. Ten years, two turns, and sixteen days it lasted, the longest summer in living memory."

 

"Will it get cold now?" Shireen was a summer child, and had never known true cold.

This quote suggests that heralding the change of seasons is the only message we have seen so far that is important enough for the Citadel to send out to the realm.  Later in Clash white ravens also deliver news of the end of summer/beginning of autumn to maesters at the Wall, Winterfell and Riverrun in Clash. 

The next time white ravens appear occurs in the epilogue of Dance when Kevan Lannister sees one in Grand Maester Pycelle's chambers and realizes that winter had begun.  

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Epilogue

Not silver. White. The bird is white.

The white ravens of the Citadel did not carry messages, as their dark cousins did. When they went forth from Oldtown, it was for one purpose only: to herald a change of seasons.

 

"Winter," said Ser Kevan. The word made a white mist in the air. He turned away from the window.

 

This second quote suggests that heralding the changing of the seasons is the only purpose they serve.  The white ravens don't deliver messages, they are the message.  

White ravens are also mentioned in Pate's prologue chapter in Feast.  He is basically a servant to Grand Maester Walgrave who is the leading expert and scholar of ravencraft and keeper of the ravenry at the Citadel.  Pate does all of the grunt work with the ravens and we learn that the white ravens don't remotely get along with the more typical and abundant black ravens and for this reason are kept separate from them.  We also lean that white ravens have some ability to speak words.  I also recall that it is mentioned elsewhere in the books that in the early days of the Citadel all of the ravens they used could talk and that they didn't need to tie messages onto their little legs because the birds could just deliver the message verbally. 

We've seen white ravens referenced in two prologue chapters and one epilogue chapter so far so I think there's a very good chance of seeing more of them in the starts and finishes of the next two books and I think that there is also some possibilities for them to use speech to add far more nuance and subtlety to the messages they deliver.  Maybe Bran could even exploit that ability to use speech.  I always shoot down other posters when they suggest that Bran and/or Bloodraven can simply skinchange with anything from any distance but Bran has demonstrated that can slip into the ravens that inhabit the cave and surrounding area where Bloodraven lives.  Perhaps he could slip into a raven that already has the ability to speak and then fly to someone who he can then have a direct conversation with. 

Hey, I think I might have been cracking pots there for a moment.

[White Ravens]

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

and summer and autumn 

and likely spring as well.