Fall Bass

Bakker LI - The Darkness That Lies Ahead (TUC Spoilers!)

411 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, Summer Bass said:

So if Nayu could still be damned, but the gods are blind to him, does that mean that he's basically auto-aimed for oblivion upon death (assuming he doesn't get fed into the No-God Machine)? Nobody is going to grab him in the Outside. 

It's an open question, honestly. Do the gods lose their blindness of NC once the No-God is stopped? Were they ever blind to him in the first place, since we know that he didn't actually end up being the end of them? Is his soul stored somewhere in Ark?

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2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

We don't. We know Nau-Cayuti went in. We don't know that he was tortured. We don't know what circumstances were used. We don't know any of it. If Bakker wanted to change it, he could, and it wouldn't be that bad. 

We also don't know if Seswatha slept with Celmomas's wife. 

Now, the implication is that these things are all accurate, but we all know what implications mean with Bakker, don't we? :P

Being blind to the gods doesn't change at all what the inverse fire would see. The gods don't determine your damnation. 

I don't remember though - what is the PoV perspective for Nau-Cayuti? Is it first-person?

Well he seen nothing of note, but a fire on the ceiling. I think it's certain Maui is the wretch, just my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Well he seen nothing of note, but a fire on the ceiling. I think it's certain Maui is the wretch, just my opinion.

Oh, I think NC is that wretch too. But I don't know if it means he was also invisible to the gods like Kelmomas is, I don't know if that's actually how it happened or is an image of what someone wants Akka to see, I don't know that NC saw nothing. None of these things are things I would say I actually know, given that they are the dreams of an erratic wizard about events that only a very few set of people know happened, and almost certainly have no reliable witnesses. 

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8 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Was that any good? I have..reservations about it.

It was strange. 

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Just now, unJon said:

It was strange. 

Heh, that doesn't really answer the question. Stop avoiding the question! (haha sorry)

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5 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Heh, that doesn't really answer the question. Stop avoiding the question! (haha sorry)

It intoroduces some potentially new magic or divine power. I guess that's something. 

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Has anyone addressed the idea of NC's soul "bouncing" back from the outside when the NG was brought down the first time and winding up in Kelmomas?

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1 hour ago, unJon said:

It intoroduces some potentially new magic or divine power. I guess that's something. 

Oh, hah, I meant the collection as a whole.

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5 hours ago, RorschachShip said:

It really isn't as indigestible as he seems to think.

Elevator pitch! And...go! :)

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On 9/25/2017 at 0:29 PM, Darth Richard II said:

Yes, you know. But no one else does.

For your sake I do hope that was a deliberate misreading of my post, even if it was attempting snark. But I can't be sure.

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9 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Oh, hah, I meant the collection as a whole.

Oh. Hah. Only read the Bakker story. 

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13 hours ago, Callan S. said:

For your sake I do hope that was a deliberate misreading of my post, even if it was attempting snark. But I can't be sure.

Maybe I'm being too obtuse? You started talking about Die Hard and Cooties and no one in this thread knows what you were on about, see @Let's Get Kraken above.

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Continuing my reread. As a denizen of the Phoenix metro, I love the Khemema chapter in TWP. 

I'm surprised that Kellhus shouted out to his father upon reaching Enathpaneah, as it could have raised suspicions among the Holy War concerning his true motives. Definite evidence that he's not as rational as he perceives himself. Perhaps the heat got to him. Bakker might have just wanted to allude to Paul's THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED moment from the Dune film, of course. If I recall correctly, Kellhus confided in Esmi about his father to a certain degree prior to her knowing his Dunyain identity as well.

Currently wondering if Wutteat will show up under the No-God's control in the new series. Judging by Seswatha's dream, it seems like wracu retain their individuality when the No-God is awakened instead of becoming a collective horde like Sranc.

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21 minutes ago, Cithrin's Ale said:

it seems like wracu retain their individuality when the No-God is awakened instead of becoming a collective horde like Sranc.

Well Wracu have souls, right?

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8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Maybe I'm being too obtuse? You started talking about Die Hard and Cooties and no one in this thread knows what you were on about, see @Let's Get Kraken above.

That's fine, it just seems I read some kind of other book to everyone else. As if the romantic entanglement of Akka and Esme wasn't there. And dare I say it, there was a love triangle.

Didn't you (or someone) give the example of star ship troopers? As I understand the original novels they were kind of love letter to a facist regime. Where as the movie kind of parodied fascist regimes.

Have I lost you in saying that - I wouldn't think I have.

1. If I haven't lost you, can you see how the movie director changed the emphasis of the book?

2. Now everyone was suggesting changing male characters into women in a prince of nothing TV/movie adaption.

3. To me, it screws with themes - one of the most obvious is how can Mimara get pregnant by seducing female Akka? They just scissor that good?

4. I would suggest instead of changing genders (or even along with changing genders), do a massive emphasis shift like the star ship troopers movie did (heck, I'm kinda just chiming in with agreement with the posters who mentioned star ship troopers and its change).

5. An action movie is a massive emphasis shift. A romance movie is a massive emphasis shift. Both genres are pretty damn popular.

6. Changing Akka into a woman, just by itself, is not going to somehow make the movies ball bustingly popular. That's not gunna do it.

So hit me up on which number I start speaking some kind of moon language to ya'll. With #6 if you just disagree on that, that's fair enough - I think #6 is the case, but I've had my chance to say it so I'm happy with leaving it at that.

 

 

Edited by Callan S.
some clarification

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I didn't mention Starship Troopers. I don't remember who did, and not to go too "um, actually" on you but Verhoven actually never read Starship Troopers, and in act the film started out as something completely separate until the movie company bought the rights to the book and decided about halfway through production that the film was now a Starship Troopers film.

(in fact they even change some of the characters, the few from the book, genders, haha).

Also not sure why we're talking movies, as last I heard it was a script for a pilot for some random tv network.

And yes, I'm pretty sure you did read a different book.

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Oh and love triangle would imply Kellhus is in love with Esmi, which I find hilarious and disgusting.

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On 9/25/2017 at 8:20 PM, Let's Get Kraken said:

Has anyone addressed the idea of NC's soul "bouncing" back from the outside when the NG was brought down the first time and winding up in Kelmomas?

Bakker says it's something about the structure of the Anasurimbor brain being able to replicate those of the original Inchoroi Insertant's.  So I don't think that li'l Kel has NC's soul.

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1 hour ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Well Wracu have souls, right?

I'm not sure if products of the tekne can be ensouled. That being said, the vast differences in personality between Skuthula (the neckbeardiest of dragons), Wutteat (a hermit who enjoys trolling) and Skafra (speaks with ye olde english accent) indicate it might be so.

Speaking of Skafra, he indicates that the No-God has more thoughts beyond existential questioning, stating that he acknowledged the death of Celmomas; Kellhus made a similar statement when he confronted Aurang-as-Esmi in TTT, saying that the No-God would punish him for his failures. The religious significance Skafra attaches to the No-God is also interesting. Far from being a mere weapon, the No-God is viewed as a deity in its own right.

DR II, Kellhus' actions in TUC indicate he loves Esmi. He had no reason to save Kelmomas beyond appeasing her. I like MSJ's idea that Kellhus feels a love that we would find quite alien. Granted, this might be Ajokli influencing Kellhus; maybe Ajokli's a horny God, as the emphasis on his phallus in artwork suggests?  

Edited by Cithrin's Ale

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