Tea Bagging

[Fatuous]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1754038' date='Apr 13 2009, 22.11']If taxes are excessively high to begin with, and you lower them temporarily to a point that is still far too high (while increasing taxes in other areas to compensate), then how is that truly making progress? I object to income tax, to gift tax, and to many of the taxes that we have. Let us instead have a flat sales tax, and everyone can pay an equal share based on what they spend. As for the representation, do you really feel that way? Do you really think that you have any representation in Washington? Truly? "And they say I'm the one that's Daft!"[/quote]

:thumbsdown:

A sales tax based system {especially a flat one} would put the onus of taxation on people struggling from paycheck to paycheck while the system would just increase the flux of cash to the top to unprecedented levels. This is typical of the type of moronic ideas that would come from the mind of Steve Forbes. Why not just suggest his flat rate income tax plan while you're at it?

What would be an excessively high tax? I swear, people yell and scream like the Government was taking their firstborn every year. Incidentally, taxes are far too low. It's called the Debt for a reason, you know. "10 trillion dollars of debt is fine but 11 Trillion is too much, it'll bankrupt this country!" It just gives me such a headache...

You earn 30K, 40K a year and you have it "tough". Boo fucking hoo. I was born under the poverty level and I'm probably going to die under the poverty level and that's with my science degree, my highly efficient mind and my dedicated work ethic. There's just too many people willing to work entry level lab positions for entry level pay with much better degrees than I have.

America, the Land of... ah hell, what is it now? Whiners? Sore losers? Insane Selfish Greedy Fucking Bastards?

[AndyP]

[quote name='Fatuous' post='1754100' date='Apr 13 2009, 22.47']What would be an excessively high tax? I swear, people yell and scream like the Government was taking their firstborn every year. Incidentally, taxes are far too low. It's called the Debt for a reason, you know. "10 trillion dollars of debt is fine but 11 Trillion is too much, it'll bankrupt this country!" It just gives me such a headache...[/quote]

Fatuous
You have hit upon the real issue is the debt not taxes. The problem I am having is that after 6 years of ruinous spending President Bush and Co TARP the country bailing out everyone under the sun. Then the Congress then passes the ridiculous stimulus bill which spends most of the money after 2010 which oddly is after the predicted start of the recovery. Now we are looking at a massive increase in the deficit with the new budget. Look elections have consequences so everyone should have expected a Democratic administration and Congress to expand government programs. Just be honest and tell the American people how much their taxes are going to be raised and doing so on the riches 5% isn't going to get the job done.

[SquireThomas]

[quote]I object to income tax, to gift tax, and to many of the taxes that we have. Let us instead have a flat sales tax, and everyone can pay an equal share based on what they spend.[/quote]

Right. Do you have any idea how high this new sales tax would have to be to get anywhere near matching our current levels of income? Believe me, if you tried to raise the sales tax to 30%, you would have an [i]actual[/i] revolution, as opposed to this pathetic tea-bag conservative circle jerk that you're now passing off for one.

[mormont]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1753823' date='Apr 13 2009, 23.07']Yes, I do work at a University. I am still very much a "Working Class stiff" by my definition.[/quote]

Then you have an inaccurate definition. You have a white-collar job earning around the median for the US, and considerably more than the lowest quartile of the population. By no means do you qualify as 'working class'.

But then, you appear not to even know how these tax proposals actually affect you. So perhaps it's not surprising that you don't understand the concept of 'the working class' either.

[quote]I do not confuse Tyranny with "I didn't vote for it". I define Tyranny as follows:
[b]tyrâ‹…anâ‹…ny[/b] [tir-uh-nee]
�"noun, plural -nies. 1. [b]arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority.[/b]
2. the government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler.
3. a state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler.
4. [b]oppressive or unjustly severe government[/b] on the part of any ruler.
5. undue severity or harshness.
6. [b]a tyrannical act or proceeding.[/b][/quote]

So you [i]do[/i] confuse 'tyranny' for 'I didn't vote for it'. President Obama's tax plans were approved by the electorate, so don't even marginally qualify as 'arbitrary' or 'unrestrained', let alone 'despotic', 'oppressive' or 'unjust'. The only way you could imagine that they are any of these things is if you didn't vote for them and are now pissed off because you lost.

[quote name='RhaegarTar' post='1753914' date='Apr 14 2009, 00.49']the movement is more about debt/big government as it is about "taxes"[/quote]

This movement appears to be about whatever its supporters want it to be about. A sure-fire sign that what it's actually for is grumbling and being a bad loser.

[The Marquis de Leech]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1754115' date='Apr 14 2009, 16.16']You have hit upon the real issue is the debt not taxes. The problem I am having is that after 6 years of ruinous spending President Bush and Co TARP the country bailing out everyone under the sun. Then the Congress then passes the ridiculous stimulus bill which spends most of the money after 2010 which oddly is after the predicted start of the recovery. Now we are looking at a massive increase in the deficit with the new budget. Look elections have consequences so everyone should have expected a Democratic administration and Congress to expand government programs. Just be honest and tell the American people how much their taxes are going to be raised and doing so on the riches 5% isn't going to get the job done.[/quote]

If we're talking skyrocketing debt, go after Reagan, who started the entire ball rolling. Somehow I don't think too many of the teabaggers are burning St Ronnie in effigy, though.

[Inigima]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1754038' date='Apr 13 2009, 22.11']Ballpark, more than 30K, less than 40K. That a good enough "ballpark" for you?[/quote]
Yes, thanks. You're struggling to pay your bills? Is Phoenix that expensive an area? It's not a super amazing salary or anything but it should be possible to live reasonably comfortably on it unless you're supporting a family and are the sole breadwinner.

EDIT: Pretty sure your taxes are being cut, can someone more knowledgeable verify?

[drawkcabi]

Another story from MSNBC:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYwuugolPhs"]Teabagging In a Nutshell[/url]

You only need to watch the first 2:45, there's a nutty pun at least every 10 seconds.

I normally don't like David Shuster he's got no personality, and I hate it when he fills in for Keith Olberman on Countdown. But for this story his deadpan delivery was perfect. I was rollin'! :rofl:

[Balefont]

[font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]So, this discussion prompted me to do a little tax experiment to see just how much more taxes were paid on net taxable income before credits in 1999 vs. 2008. I'm a numbers/visual person so I really had to figure out what the fuss is all about. Below are the tax calculations and the final box is the comparison between 1999 and 2008.

[Sorry for the shit formatting; the board keeps fucking with it be deleting extra spaces.]


[font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][quote][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]1999[/font][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
Single [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]married jointly
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 3,754 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]15.02% [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]3,754 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]15.02%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]50,000 [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]10,660 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]21.32%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 8,411 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]16.82%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]75,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 18,037 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]24.05%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 15,411 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]20.55%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]100,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 25,779 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25.78%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 22,404 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]22.40%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]200,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 60,267 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]30.13%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 55,355 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]27.68%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]300,000 [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]96,267 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]32.09%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 91,961 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]30.65%[/size][/font][/font] [font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
[/size][/font][/quote][/font][/font][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]


[quote][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]2001[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
Single [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]married jointly
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 3,754 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]15.02%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 3,754 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]15.02%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
50,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 10,376 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]20.75%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 8,107 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]16.21%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]75,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 17,535 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]23.38%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 14,982 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]19.98%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]100,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 25,152 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25.15%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 21,850 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]21.85%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
200,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 58,815 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]29.41%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 53,748 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]26.87%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]300,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 94,410 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]31.47%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 89,343 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]29.78%[/size][/font][/quote][/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]



[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2][quote][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]2003[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]Single [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]married jointly[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
25,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 3,353 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.41%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 2,951 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]11.80%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
50,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 8,850 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]17.70%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 6,709 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.42%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
75,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 15,100 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]20.13%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 11,444 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]15.26%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
100,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 21,978 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]21.98%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 17,688 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]17.69%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]200,000 [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]51,751 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25.88%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 44,744 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]22.37%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]300,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 87,460 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]29.15%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 77,729 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25.91%
[/size][/font][/font][/quote]


[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2][quote][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]2005[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2] [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
Single [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]married jointly[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
25,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 3,389 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.56% [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]3,024 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]12.10%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
50,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 9,171 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]18.34% [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]6,774 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.55%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]75,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 15,514 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]20.69% [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]12,086 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]16.11%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
100,000 [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]22,507 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]22.51%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 18,330 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]18.33%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
200,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 52,999 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]26.50% [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]46,592 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]23.30%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
300,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 88,996 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]29.67% [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]79,592 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]26.53%
[/size][/font][/quote]

[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2][quote][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]2007[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]Single [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]married jointly
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 3,363 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.45%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 2,971 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]11.88%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]50,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 8,930 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]17.86%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 6,721 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.44%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]75,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 15,180 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]20.24%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 11,604 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]15.47%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
100,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 22,111 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]22.11%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 17,848 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]17.85%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
200,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 52,068 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]26.03%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 45,200 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]22.60%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
300,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 85,068 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]28.36%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 78,200 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]26.07%
[/size][/font][/quote]

[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]

[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2][quote][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]2008[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2] [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
Single [/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]married jointly[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
25,000 [/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]3,353 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.41%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 2,951 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]11.80%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
50,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 8,850 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]17.70%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 6,701 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]13.40%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
75,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 15,100 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]20.13%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 11,444 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]15.26%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
100,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 21,978 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]21.98%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 17,688 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]17.69%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
200,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 51,751 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25.88%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 44,744 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]22.37%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
300,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 84,751 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]28.25%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] 77,729 [/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]25.91%[/size][/font][/quote]

[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]

[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][quote][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]Tax "Savings"[/font]
[/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]......................Single......................[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]married jointly[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
..25,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]..........401....[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]1.60%...............[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]803....[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]3.21%
[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]..50,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"].......1,810....[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]3.62%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"].............1,710....[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]3.42%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
..75,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"].......2,937....[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]3.92%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"].............[i][b]3,967[/b][/i]...[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2][i][b]5.29%
[/b][/i][/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]100,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"] .......3,801...[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]3.80%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]..............4,716....[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]4.72%[/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]
200,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"]........8,516...[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]4.26%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"].............[i][b]10,611[/b][/i]...[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2][i][b]5.31%
[/b][/i][/size][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]300,000[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"].......11,516...[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]3.84%[/size][/font][size=2][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"].............14,232...[/font][/size][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]4.74%[/size][/font][/quote][/font][/font][font="MS Reference Sans Serif"][size=2]

Of course in 1999 the long-term capital gains tax rate was 20% and the tax on all dividend income was at the ordinary income rates. The 2008 long-term cap gain rate was 15% and the dividend income tax was 0% - 15%. Sure, those tax cuts helped out my family loads. not

[/size][/font]

[WhiteQueen]

That's curious. So they send the tea bags via mail? But isn't the US post office owned by the gov't? So, each time I buy a stamp the gov't benefits? Well, then, fuck, no, I am sending nothing, this oppressive government has already gotten plenty of my involuntary contributions.
However, regarding the original movement of tea parties of 2009 – I am proud to say that I will be attending one on April 15th in NY - Newt Gingrich will be speaking and he's a very smart and quite funny guy. Definitely not a presidential material but very witty and clever. I do not know about the millions that's going to show up, (not unlike EHK, I find it hard to believe), but definitely about a thousand people will come to hang out which is pretty decent for a liberal city like New York. It is also true that Republicans are not exactly pitchfork and torch material, but this is the first time I wanted to actually get up and do something - and I am definitely not your typical protestor – my schedule is plenty busy with
• my kids: the older one is turning 7 in 10 days, the younger one is recovering from pneumonia
• my job – I lead a highly profitable department for a very successful investment bank that did not need to be bailed out.
• my maniacal daily work-outs - getting ready for another race - San Diego marathon 5/31 – here I come;
• In addition, just next week I have to fly to a bachelorette party in Vegas, from which I am flying directly to the business meeting in So-Cal, after returning from which I will find myself organizing the birthday party and getting ready for an upcoming vacation. Hence, evidently, I do not have time for meetings and crap like that. Yet I want to go and give my $0.02. Every American can visit the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) estimates for Obama’s 2010 budget. (CBO’s Estimate of the Effect of the President’s Budget on Baseline Deficits, Table 1-5, p. 13, as of April 9, 2009). You will find that for the next ten years, President Obama’s 2010 budget will increase the federal debt by a total of $9.4 trillion. If we include Obama’s spending from 2009, Americans will have to pay off over $9,446,000, 000,000. Like any form of debt, this debt comes with a steep interest rate. The repayment of the debt comes from your taxes. I am already in the highest possible bracket, and a subject to AMT. With spending like Obama's, do you really think he will only tax the wealthy? There are not enough wealthy people to tax with his grandiose plans. Average middle class Americans are next, and then lower middleclass - everyone's taxes will be increased, don't be naive. So, I am going on April 15 to the "Tea Party" mainly to let my kids know that I cannot let President Obama continue to finance the spending today with the economic prosperity of the future, their and other children prosperity.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Drawkcabi' post='1754564' date='Apr 14 2009, 12.15']Another story from MSNBC:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYwuugolPhs"]Teabagging In a Nutshell[/url]

You only need to watch the first 2:45, there's a nutty pun at least every 10 seconds.

I normally don't like David Shuster he's got no personality, and I hate it when he fills in for Keith Olberman on Countdown. But for this story his deadpan delivery was perfect. I was rollin'! :rofl:[/quote]

Gold.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Blauer Dragon

Your story doesn't add up. You're working at an entry level white collar job for a university. First, I've rarely heard of overtime work for universities, unless you're at the physical plant. Second, in my experience, the salary level (I'm guessing 18K to 22K range, on the low side, depending on your geographical location) should be more than enough to cover the basic expenses of a single person with no children to support, who doesn't have cable or phone. Unless you live in the heart of Manhattan or San Francisco, I just don't see how you are having trouble keeping electricity on in your home, unless you have a massive debt load that sucks up 80% of your income, or if you have other expenses we don't know about.



Re: Ken Stone

[quote name='Ken Stone' post='1754011' date='Apr 13 2009, 20.47']Go for it. To protest you could mail cigarette butts to politicians.[/quote]

That's a great idea. Then at least there'll be fewer cigarette butts littering our streets.

[TerraPrime]

[quote name='WhiteQueen' post='1754635' date='Apr 14 2009, 12.25']That's curious. So they send the tea bags via mail? But isn't the US post office owned by the gov't? So, each time I buy a stamp the gov't benefits? Well, then, fuck, no, I am sending nothing, this oppressive government has already gotten plenty of my involuntary contributions.[/quote]

1. USPS has been self-supporting for about 3 decades now. Please update your information. Here's a link: [url="http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?session={f01bd290-2919-11de-627c-000000000000}&event=1&view()=c{1277f8b0-57e2-11dc-51b6-000000000000}&objectId=&eksObjectId=&objectType=Case&isJumpEnabled=false&isContentJumpEnabled=false&vendorKey=&objTitle=&versionId=1961&searchProperties=type:natural&naturalAdvance=false&allStr=&phraseStr=&anyStr=&noneStr=&keywordStr=&tTitle=USPS%20Facts%20and%20Reference&topicFromSub=About%20USPS&topicsORSubUrl=&report(0000)=p{409592d0-6974-11dd-e6c4-000000000000}&bcobjectId={75a1ecb0-6971-11dd-e6c4-000000000000}&search=&topicAndSubtopic=Sending%20Mail$ALL"]USPS FAQ[/url]

2. But, if you purchase a stamp, then it'll be voluntary, right? Because you have the option to use FedEx or UPS, no?

3. What other purchases do you abstain from as a form of protest to the oppressive government?

4. How long, by your standard, has our government been oppressive? Since it's inception? Since the 40s? Since 2008?


[quote]Newt Gingrich will be speaking and he's a very smart and quite funny guy. Definitely not a presidential material but very witty and clever.[/quote]

Yes, not presidential material. I wouldn't want him as a husband, either. If I am going in to a hospital for chemo, the last thing I want is for my husband to come serve me my divorce paper. Just sayin'.

[The_BlauerDragon]

[quote name='TerraPrime' post='1754638' date='Apr 14 2009, 10.27']Re: Blauer Dragon

Your story doesn't add up. You're working at an entry level white collar job for a university. First, I've rarely heard of overtime work for universities, unless you're at the physical plant. Second, in my experience, the salary level (I'm guessing 18K to 22K range, on the low side, depending on your geographical location) should be more than enough to cover the basic expenses of a single person with no children to support, who doesn't have cable or phone. Unless you live in the heart of Manhattan or San Francisco, I just don't see how you are having trouble keeping electricity on in your home, unless you have a massive debt load that sucks up 80% of your income, or if you have other expenses we don't know about.
Re: Ken Stone
That's a great idea. Then at least there'll be fewer cigarette butts littering our streets.[/quote]
I'm sorry that you don't like the math, but (trust me) I'd be much happier if you were right about my finances. Much! I don't have an excessive debt load (I have a few debts that aren't getting paid because I don't have the cash). I got an awesome deal on a cheap apartment, and because of my credit the only thing that I could get financed was a new car (a pontiac). My rent and my car payment added together consume approx. 45% of my income. Electricity consumes another 10-12% on average. The rest is mostly food, gas, and cigarettes.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

You´re paying ~200$/month for electricity?

[Shryke]

Grow-op. It's pretty standard.

[C S]

[quote name='WhiteQueen' post='1754635' date='Apr 14 2009, 11.25']There are not enough wealthy people to tax with his grandiose plans. Average middle class Americans are next, and then lower middleclass - everyone's taxes will be increased, don't be naive. So, I am going on April 15 to the "Tea Party" mainly to let my kids know that I cannot let President Obama continue to finance the spending today with the economic prosperity of the future, their and other children prosperity.[/quote]
A tax increase of any consequence on the middle and lower class is certain political suicide. Even if he plans to do it in his second term, there is no way that Congress will go along with it. Typical Republican scare tactics.

On a side note, with a household income above the median for this country, my Federal tax bill for 2008 was slightly more that 1% of my gross household income. It seems to me that this is much ado about nothing.

[Shryke]

Also, there ARE in fact enough rich people to tax for these plans. Well, more that said rich people are more then rich enough for it. Overtaxing the lower classes is terrible for the economy anyway.

[Ormond]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1754661' date='Apr 14 2009, 12.54']I'm sorry that you don't like the math, but (trust me) I'd be much happier if you were right about my finances. Much! I don't have an excessive debt load (I have a few debts that aren't getting paid because I don't have the cash). I got an awesome deal on a cheap apartment, and because of my credit the only thing that I could get financed was a new car (a pontiac). My rent and my car payment added together consume approx. 45% of my income. Electricity consumes another 10-12% on average. The rest is mostly food, gas, and cigarettes.[/quote]

Obviously people have different definitions of these things ---

But to me, if you have ANY "debts that aren't getting paid because" you "don't have the cash", you must have an "excessive debt load" relative to your present income and expenses.

[WhiteQueen]

[quote]I wouldn't want him as a husband, either. If I am going in to a hospital for chemo, the last thing I want is for my husband to come serve me my divorce paper. Just sayin'.[/quote]Oh, stop. I am not going to marry him, you have nothing to worry about, just listen to him speaking. He's not really my type, too old, you know, not cute enough, not wealthy enough, has been married before, etc. But seriously, what does his divorce have to do with anything he could possibly say on Wednesday? I said he was funny and clever, I did not say he was a good husband. You comments are so extraneous at times. :)
[quote name='TerraPrime' post='1754648' date='Apr 14 2009, 13.37']1. USPS has been self-supporting for about 3 decades now. Please update your information. Here's a link: [url="http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?session={f01bd290-2919-11de-627c-000000000000}&event=1&view()=c{1277f8b0-57e2-11dc-51b6-000000000000}&objectId=&eksObjectId=&objectType=Case&isJumpEnabled=false&isContentJumpEnabled=false&vendorKey=&objTitle=&versionId=1961&searchProperties=type:natural&naturalAdvance=false&allStr=&phraseStr=&anyStr=&noneStr=&keywordStr=&tTitle=USPS%20Facts%20and%20Reference&topicFromSub=About%20USPS&topicsORSubUrl=&report(0000)=p{409592d0-6974-11dd-e6c4-000000000000}&bcobjectId={75a1ecb0-6971-11dd-e6c4-000000000000}&search=&topicAndSubtopic=Sending%20Mail$ALL"]USPS FAQ[/url]

2. But, if you purchase a stamp, then it'll be voluntary, right? Because you have the option to use FedEx or UPS, no?

3. What other purchases do you abstain from as a form of protest to the oppressive government?

4. How long, by your standard, has our government been oppressive? Since it's inception? Since the 40s? Since 2008?[/quote]


As for stamps, I was referring to my taxes as my involuntary contributions. Part of my taxes goes to the USPS, right? So, in addition to my involuntary contributions (taxes) I do not wish to make any voluntary ones (like purchasing stamps). And I do use FedEx for all my mailings except for P.O.s. Then, unfortunately, I have to make my voluntary contributions and purchase stamps, because this silly Fedex just does not deliver to the P.O.s.
Regarding the purchases I try to avoid to pay taxes - well, pretty much anything I pay taxes on. I am not above traveling out of state (say, across Hudson to NJ) to avoid taxes or getting things online - more for me - less for them.
Finally, regarding since when I found the government oppressive:
op•pres•sive (-prsv)
adj.
1. Difficult to bear; burdensome: oppressive laws.
2. Exercising power arbitrarily and often unjustly; tyrannical.
3. Weighing heavily on the senses or spirit:
I admit, I never paid much attention to politics in my youth. I used to vote Democrat in college, made my parents donate money to some Black church in East New York, hung out with liberal bohemians. Yep, mea culpa. Then I grew up, started working, and understood how things worked, what things cost, who is worth what and why. Now as a mother and a high earner, I am forced to pay closer attention. And that’s what I find:
I find the government that does not learn form past mistakes oppressive - Obama’s admirers and supporters constitute a people who do not want to be free, and who do not want anyone else to be free. Allowing their emotions to govern their minimal thought and their actions, they have endorsed his notion that everyone must be tied in servitude and sacrifice to everyone else to “work together” for a “more perfect union.” Those who supported him view themselves as “victims,” and he has been the salve of their troubled souls. A majority of the electorate wished for bread and circuses. He has promised them bread and circuses. It has already happened in 1917 in Russia, in the 60s in Cuba, and it failed there, I never thought I would see it here. His "re-writing the Declaration of Independence" and "redistribution of wealth" inspirations are oppressive. The government thinking it could bail out the failed institutions at the expense of the prosperous ones is not only oppressive, but ignorant. Welfare is no longer for the poor because the majority of the voters would depend on government handouts. Not just voters - corporations - (GM). The new president seems determined to repeat every disastrous mistake of the 1930s, at home and abroad. He has already repeated Herbert Hoover’s policy of raising taxes on high income earners, FDR’s policy of trying to micro-manage the economy and Neville Chamberlain’s policy of seeking dialogues with hostile nations while downplaying the dangers they represent. So, to answer your question since when I find the government oppressive, I will have to say since Obama came to power, weighing heavily on senses or spirit of the mob, exercising his power without proper knowledge (throwing away the money, bailing out the losers at the expense of the prosperous and successful ones), introducing his difficult to bear laws.

[RhaegarTar]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1754714' date='Apr 14 2009, 14.31']Grow-op. It's pretty standard.[/quote]

huh?