Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

[Sidonie]

I can't see how a comet can be described as "a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame". And its the word "roar" that bothers me the most.

besides:

"He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone"

for all we know the comet was there for quite some time....

I think a dragon was born metaphorically and the dragon was Tyrion...

I'm not sure that this will be cleared up in the series. but I guess you're right, we'll only have to wait and see :)

You know, maybe what Summer "saw" was actually some form of the Greensight. Maybe he saw the comet, but intuitively understood, and somehow "saw" in a flash of intuitive understanding, its true meaning- which was the return of the dragons.

[Serie]

You know, maybe what Summer "saw" was actually some form of the Greensight. Maybe he saw the comet, but intuitively understood, and somehow "saw" in a flash of intuitive understanding, its true meaning- which was the return of the dragons.

yes, that makes sense :)

[Dilshan Muthalib]

There was something in the crypts/underground for JOn..most people assume that it his mother, Lyanna ..may be there is more to it, if we except the fact he is a special Targ then we know nothing is more precious to a Targarian then a dragon. Plus in various other threads it has been discussed in detail why lightbringer can not be just a sward and has to be more but at the same time Danny's dragons are not strong enough to take on the others. But if there was a Hidden dragoon that was awaken it must be quite a powerful and big beast that could take on the others..we might see a dragon coming to the wall to aid Jon as he is fighting death (bit like in Merlyn)....this will also mean Jon being one of the key players in the story if not the main player, he does not have to rely on anyone or be at a disadvantage to Deny, who might have people closer to her she holds dearer then Jon and she wants the Iron Throne undisputed and does not come across as she might want to share.

[Dilshan Muthalib]

also we know from Deny's dragons that they are not always visible, they disappear for days and relatively small one cause huge havoc..now if a sleeping one had been awaken havoc it causes will wipe out villages and with war raging and no one being prepared to believe that dragons exist and add to the fact it seems in war you burn villages to the ground, a village burned out by a dragon will and can easily be mistaken for a village that has been burnt down by a rival. Further mel can only bring back jon as a undead from what we know and if his wounds are fatal then it will need a greater magic to heal him, dragon breath..born of fire AA

[TheRiderThatMounts]

Since Bran is a seer, what if that vision is a vision of the future rather than the present?

[Ser Me]

What about this theory on how the dragon ended up beneath Winterfell.

We all know Bran the Builder (the first Stark) had something to do with fighting of / holding back the others (not considering the theory the first Starks were in league with them) because he built the Wall. This makes him a candidate for being or working with the original Azor Ahai.

Lightbringer, the burning sword Azor Ahai was wielding, might have been a dragon (dragons have been described as burning sword in ADWD).

After the Others were defeated, Bran built the Wall and Winterfell (the place where winter fell to Azor Ahai?). What if Azor Ahai / Bran simply stored Lightbringer (the dragon) beneath Winterfell / the Heart tree so that it can be called upon again when needed? It's near the Wall, ergo close to the front.

Or has this been brought up before?

[Bushido]

It is certainly fitting circumstance that would awaken a dragon (hatch an egg) - having in mind the pyre and people who have died,however,hatched dragons do not breathe fire,fly,etc.

Melisandre surely believes dragon can be awaken from the stone.

However,I think it is a lupine interpretation which at some point will make perfect sense. Martin said it is quite challenging to write from direwolves' perspective.

My first post,greetings to all! :)

[Jayce]

This is my new favorite theory, at least in regards to the "Winterfell Dragon". After reading the chapter back again, and making my way through this thread there just seems like there is too much guess wok going on, assuming that the 'Waking a dragon form the Stone'; wasn't about Dragonstone, asuming that Summer wasn't being overly poetic (the snake in the sky, I don't think it was said to be flying horizontal, perhaps it could have been just one of Winterfell's towers burning brightly, or exploding in flames, and then stopping or something similar???) The Rhy'llor-type vision seems like a plausible explanation that would explain the none sighting buy any of Bolton's men or Theon, or any mentions later in the book from any source (also I think this ties in nicely with my theory that all the Gods are the same being or two beings, cause why would a Red Worshipper Prophecy coem to something that is presumably and Old Gods patron) Also, the Winged "Snake" doesnt' seem to fit with me... while i'm fairly sure the Dragons of 'The World' aren't so much like European Dragons, they certainly aren't like the Chinese ones... I always pictured them as having to legs and arms/wings, I would'nt have sdaid they would fly looking like a snake???

I listened to an interview with George recently and he described his dragons as being more like the Chinese ones. Long and thin and having 4 limbs (wings are limbs) not 6 (which is the more European Dragon). Only problem is I can't find the interview now.

[Bushido]

Actually,GRRM's dragons are very Chinese- they have wings and fore arms,more serpentine than reptile.

[Hempen Dan the Ropemaker]

anyone know of any good art based on GRRMs dragons? Was totally picturing Euro dragons while reading the book, not Chinese. Gonna have to go back and re read some late dance dany chapters.

[Opkio]

I think to add to the idea it is a dragon and no one has seen it there might be a reason why.

Lets compare for a moment.

Dany's Drogon or whatever it is called, escaped and headed to a cave far away. However, it was never found, except when it came back. So there is a possibility if, i am not saying there was a dragon, but if the case may be that there was, perhaps it flew to a secluded location(the north is huge) away from towns or villages as drogon did. thus following the same behavior we saw from the dragon we know it exists.

[Ser Me]

I think to add to the idea it is a dragon and no one has seen it there might be a reason why.

Lets compare for a moment.

Dany's Drogon or whatever it is called, escaped and headed to a cave far away. However, it was never found, except when it came back. So there is a possibility if, i am not saying there was a dragon, but if the case may be that there was, perhaps it flew to a secluded location(the north is huge) away from towns or villages as drogon did. thus following the same behavior we saw from the dragon we know it exists.

Actually, I believe Tyrion saw Drogon when he was on the boat with the Griffs.

[Eira Seren]

much as i like the idea of the dragon beneath winterfell, i'm not yet convinced by the evidence. when i first read this part, i always thought it was the comet, or a giant explosion. mainly the comet, since i think i remember reading that summer 'bares his teeth' at it when it makes an appearance earlier in the story--can't recall if that was at the end of GOT or the beginning of COK.

also, i wonder about a dragon going unnoticed. guess there's lots of snacks available in the north. . . but with the riverlands at war, it seems to me there'd be a smorgasboard. nobody's complained of having to chase a dragon off the battlefield when they were cleaning up, for instance. you'd think a dragon would be attracted to the noise, fires, bodies. . . . Nymeria's wolves certainly are. eventually, the temptation of spending those end-of-summer days at the perpetual barbeque next door would win out. throw in a few cold ones, and i'm in! (no, not really)

after reading all 5 books, i'm wondering if it was foreshadowing. maybe something happens later on. i REALLY wonder what it is up there in the heart of winter that bran sees, the thing that scares him. the thing with the spikes that dreamseers die on. . . especially now that we know that when allowed to grow out in the open, a dragon can become gigantic. . .

and maybe there is a 'dragon' buried in the winterfell crypts. who knows?

[Aegon I]

bump

[The Knight of Swagga]

Okay. Suppose that the Dragon in question isn't just any old Dragon, but rather THE Dragon. That might change things around a bit. One good way to test this theory would be to see someone make their way into Winterfell and see if the Hot Springs are still hot. If they are not, then it MUST have been a Dragon heating them.

You probably noticed this already, but when I read your comment I just had to open A Dance with Dragons and turn to Theon's Prince of Winterfell chapter and read it over. But i didn't even need to :) The first sentence says "The hearth was caked with cold black ash, the room UNHEATED but for candles."

That makes your theory a little bit stronger, does it not?

[Ser Pollo Loco]

You probably noticed this already, but when I read your comment I just had to open A Dance with Dragons and turn to Theon's Prince of Winterfell chapter and read it over. But i didn't even need to :) The first sentence says "The hearth was caked with cold black ash, the room UNHEATED but for candles."

That makes your theory a little bit stronger, does it not?

I wonder if that has something to do with there must always be a stark in winterfell, i think that ice magic might not be as straight forth as fire magic i.e. when you die south of the wall you won't be come a wight because the magic in the wall stops it as long as the watch stays true, so maybe there is similar magic in winterfell as long as there is a stark in winterfell

[Lord Steward]

You probably noticed this already, but when I read your comment I just had to open A Dance with Dragons and turn to Theon's Prince of Winterfell chapter and read it over. But i didn't even need to :) The first sentence says "The hearth was caked with cold black ash, the room UNHEATED but for candles."

That makes your theory a little bit stronger, does it not?

I'm glad somebody has pointed this out. There's another reference too, when Theon and the spearwives are rescuing Jeyne, Theon makes note of how the spearwives don't act right in the kitchens while they're waiting for the water to be heated. So the hot springs or whatever was providing the hot water in Winterfell is definitely out of action.

Another thing a couple of people have already mentioned is that Tyrion saw a dragon, which was almost definitely Drogon. Earlier on in this thread (I mean, over a year ago) there was a heated discussion about why Bran didn't mention having seen a dragon through Summer's eyes. Some people said it was because such a fleeting vision in such a chaotic scenario is easily forgotten or dismissed. The fact that Tyrion also sees something dragon-like for a split second, then doesn't bother mentioning it to anyone or even thinking about it after, shows that it's not so inconceivable that Bran didn't mention it.

The 'comet crashing' theory strikes me as pretty unlikely for two reasons. The first, as others have said, is that a comet making impact would be a cataclysmic event, and would be far more worthy of note later than a dragon. The second is the sheer improbability. Somebody a long time ago on this thread described a dragon coming out of Winterfell as a deus ex machina. The comet making impact at that place and time would be even more of one. A dragon rising could be in come way caused by the commotion above, but fighting on the ground can in no way influence the landing of a comet, so the coincidence is too great.

On the other hand to everything I've just said, the fact that we've now had three books (I know Feast and Dance were mostly concurrent but still...) since this event makes the problem of witnesses a big one, especially since in Dance we've seen Theon, Ramsay and Wex. I'm not discounting it though. If a dragon in the Sorrows can go unnoticed in the fog save for Tyrion seeing it fleetingly, then the same is possible in the smoke and ash at Winterfell. If a dragon was awoken, I'll wager it high-tailed it to Skagos or Skane, so perhaps Davos will encounter it whilst attempting to retrieve Rickon?

[Lordling]

I also like the allusory aspect of Merlin and the tower that wouldn't be built. There was a lake beneath that tower. From Wikipedia on Merlin:

the British king Vortigern was trying to erect a tower. The tower always collapsed before completion, and his wise men told him the only solution was to sprinkle the foundation with the blood of a child born without a father. Ambrosius (Merlin) was rumoured to be such a child, but when brought before the king, he revealed the real reason for the tower's collapse: below the foundation was a lake containing two dragons who destroyed the tower by fighting.

At Winterfell, there was hot water running out on the surface after the sack, so maybe there was an underground lake at Winterfell as well.

[Lord of Insignificance]

Perhaps there is an egg that was left in winterfell (maybe in the dunk and egg series, maybe by Queen Alysanne). When Dany did the dragon hatching spell, she may have also activated other eggs in existence. I.e. Eurons dragon in the sea, a dragon in winterfell (maybe Rhaegars egg he picked up from the ruins of summerhall.) and the egg hatched, thus the heat appearing at the same time.

[Duir]

Very encouraging to see that this thread still lives, kind of.

I just badly want it to be a dragon so I'm sticking to it.

And just as an addition, people all through the books keep on pointing out that magic is awakening and getting stronger. Mel says it, Marwyn ( I think) says it about the glass candles and the pyromancers say it as well when the concocted the wildifre.

Which feels rather interesting and important when dealing with a "sleeping" dragon beneath winterfell. The fire alone would not have done the deed, and as you know - timing is everything so the dragon wakes together with the magic that also awake (or the other way around if you will).

AND I LOVE THE CONNECTION TO THE HEATED POOLS NOT BEING HEATED ANYMORE.

...even if they're just dried up or something. I still applaud you all to the find. I didn't even notice.

:bowdown:

EDIT: Bad phrasing. too eager.