Infidelity - when, if ever is it acceptable.

[turinturambar]

Raidne,

This seems more than fair. Of course, we're only getting the one side of it, but I see what you mean, and on the basis we have, it would be really freaking cool of the guy to be more obviously interested in her well-being.

Of course there's no evidence at all that the OP's friend shows very little concern for his SO. He did after all mention that his friend has talked to his wife and tried to get her to seek help, but that she refuses to seek said help. IMO if wasn't concerned for her he wouldn't be trying to get her help, and he surely wouldn't be waiting for her to come around for 13 months after refusing said help. But everybody has their breaking point, it just depends on whether he goes about this the right way, or gives into temptation.

[Lord Mord]

turinturambar,

Of course there's no evidence at all that the OP's friend shows very little concern for his SO. He did after all mention that his friend has talked to his wife and tried to get her to seek help, but that she refuses to seek said help. IMO if wasn't concerned for her he wouldn't be trying to get her help, and he surely wouldn't be waiting for her to come around for 13 months after refusing said help. But everybody has their breaking point, it just depends on whether he goes about this the right way, or gives into temptation.

Emphasis mine.

Overall, I think this is a very cool post. However, I do call bullshit on the bolded part. There's simply no such animal.

[palimpsest.]

What is the significance of PTSD in this context? Are you saying that if she is so afflicted, that makes it the more morally imperative that he puts his own desires on hold? If so, may I ask why that should be the case? He's not getting any and he wants it, and the cause why she's not giving him what he wants seems to me irrelevant. He's not going to magically want it less just because she's ill, nor does it make sense to call it a moral failing if he doesn't.

Well, there is some significance to it. If the woman suffers from PTSD (or PPD), the way of solving the problem is different than if she didn't have it, and her behaviour and reasoning will likely be different as well.

Even if she claims she doesn't need any help, this certainly doesn't mean he can just give up on it (as some people in this topic pointed out that if she doesn't want help, then there is nothing you can do about it). He could go ask a doctor for advice on how to help her as much as he can, or how to try to convince her to seek help. I don't know how much is PPD alike to 'ordinary' depression disorder, but if it is, and if she has it, then pestering her about sex definitely isn't helping. I, too, noticed how the OP (and his friend) dismissed the possibility of medical problems with 'she says so, therefore it must be true'. What kind of reasoning is that? He can see how she has changed, and what's keeping him from googling her symptoms or asking his doctor about it? Knowing whether she is really just tired or whether she has PPD is the first step of dealing with the problem. If he's too lazy to do it (or unwilling, or whatever) and would rather just 'solve' it the easy way (by cheating), then he is an asshole. At the very least, he should be honest about it and divorce her. I understand that he might have his own problems and feels unable to be as much of help as she needs him to be (it's never easy to help a partner who is suffering from depression or any other kind of mental/psychological issue, this I can say from my personal experience), but then he should face the consequences of his decision.

So, while turinturambar has a point, I still think that the husband could do more about it and just decided not to. As for Sheep the Evicted: man, nobody said relationships were easy. Succumbing to frustration after you've done just about everything you could is reasonable, but I don't think OP's situation is really like this. Surely, we don't have enough information, but from what I've read, it seems to me that the OP's friend is being more frustrated about sex and less concerned about his wife's health while all he did was 'talk to her' - to what extent and in what way, we don't know. For this,we can hardly call him a saint for his efforts, but we also can't really say that he's being a dick. Damn lack of information. :P

[turinturambar]

Trin, very good post and I agree with it all for the most part. I do, however, think that at a point some responsibility has to be put on the depressed party to realize they have a problem and seek help. I've seen too many peole use depression as an excuse to treat people badly or neglect the people they love. While sympathy can be given to them and we must try to understand them, they also have to retain a certain level of responsibility for their actions or inactions.

[alguien]

I thought this recent article on sex after childbirth from CNN was pretty timely and appropriate for this thread.

Besides exhaustion, there are biological reasons why some women don't return to their previous sex lives after childbirth, said Dr. Irwin Goldstein, director of sexual medicine at Alvarado Hospital in San Diego, California. Testosterone goes down for some women after the delivery, and breast-feeding releases the hormone prolactin, which inhibits arousal.

While Viagra has been a popular remedy for men with low sex drive, there is no medical treatment on the market for female sexual dysfunction, despite the number of women who are unable to resume their pre-childbirth intimacy levels. A drug called Flibanserin, currently under Food and Drug Administration review, could be available as soon as this year and would treat chemical imbalances that impede a mother's sexual desire, Goldstein said.

[palimpsest.]

Trin, very good post and I agree with it all for the most part. I do, however, think that at a point some responsibility has to be put on the depressed party to realize they have a problem and seek help. I've seen too many peole use depression as an excuse to treat people badly or neglect the people they love. While sympathy can be given to them and we must try to understand them, they also have to retain a certain level of responsibility for their actions or inactions.

Absolutely. If the depressed person not only declines all offers of help, but is also completely unresponsive to just about any solution his/her partner tries, will not talk about issues etc., then I think the partner has every right to give up. If one really does one's best, but the situation stays the same (and unpleasant), then it's only logical they'll want to quit the relationship.

I had a similar experience myself, and had a hard time figuring out that it's OK to give up on my then-boyfriend, who suddenly became depressive a year and a half into our relationship. He was completely unresponsive, did not want to talk, claimed nobody could understand him and refused to seek medical help. I did actually ask my doctor about it, but I couldn't really do anything since my then-bf didn't live anywhere near me (plus, I was very young at the time). When I finally convinced myself that it was OK to let him go, after half a year of him being unresponsive and distant, he beat me to it, claiming it was all my fault. I still hate him with a passion, and it's been almost 4 years.

[turinturambar]

When I finally convinced myself that it was OK to let him go, after half a year of him being unresponsive and distant, he beat me to it, claiming it was all my fault. I still hate him with a passion, and it's been almost 4 years.

Also very understandable.

[palimpsest.]

Yeah. But, if I return back to the topic, I can imagine how much more complicated it must be when instead of a selfish teenager the depressed person is one's wife who has given birth a year ago.

All the more reasons why cheating on someone is definitely not the solution in this case. I can't say what the solution would be, though. I guess it varies from person to person.

[turinturambar]

Yeah. But, if I return back to the topic, I can imagine how much more complicated it must be when instead of a selfish teenager the depressed person is one's wife who has given birth a year ago.

For sure. Though there's always a limit on how much patience a person will have.

All the more reasons why cheating on someone is definitely not the solution in this case. I can't say what the solution would be, though. I guess it varies from person to person.

Absolutely. Infidelity is never the right answer.

[BigFatCoward]

Absolutely. Infidelity is never the right answer.

what about as revenge on someone like tiger woods, then dump them after you have shown them how it feels?

[Ormond]

what about as revenge on someone like tiger woods, then dump them after you have shown them how it feels?

Nope, still a bad a idea. Not the least reason is that assuming someone who's already cheated on you multiple times would "feel" about it the same way you do is an unreasonable assumption.

[turinturambar]

what about as revenge on someone like tiger woods, then dump them after you have shown them how it feels?

While understandable, still wrong. I'm not of the opinion that two wrongs make a right. No matter the motivation for a negative action, the action is still in and of itself a negative action. Not to mention that revenge sex can also hurt the person who's been used to get said revenge.

[Kalbear]

the action is still in and of itself a negative action.

Maybe. But at the same time, it may be the best of all potential options available.

There are always other choices. Those choices might suck more.

[JungianQueen]

what about as revenge on someone like tiger woods, then dump them after you have shown them how it feels?

Naw. Why lower yourself to that level? He's the one who can't evolve beyond the "animal humping peoples' leg" mentality. Why should she stoop?

[palimpsest.]

what about as revenge on someone like tiger woods, then dump them after you have shown them how it feels?

Well, this might not even count as infidelity anymore (rules have been broken, the relationship is over).

However, I don't really think that having sex with a person just because it might hurt another person is the best way to deal with problems. As Ormond said, the other person probably doesn't even give a damn, and it all leaves you with even more frustration and emotional strain. I don't really think it's worth it.

[turinturambar]

If there is no divorce sought then the relationship isn't over. People overcome invidelity in relationships every day. If she wants revenge, I would think the most satisfying long-term way to get back at her would be to divorce him and take all his money, then buy herself a big house and maybe hire on a nice pool boy.

[fitheach]

If there is no divorce sought then the relationship isn't over. People overcome invidelity in relationships every day. If she wants revenge, I would think the most satisfying long-term way to get back at her would be to divorce him and take all his money, then buy herself a big house and maybe hire on a nice pool boy.

"I call him Ramon"...:thumbsup:

[Iskaral Pust]

Naw. Why lower yourself to that level? He's the one who can't evolve beyond the "animal humping peoples' leg" mentality. Why should she stoop?

I think if he wants to believe that Elin Nordegren is casting around for any old guy (maybe even him; why not him?) to have some no-strings-attached revenge sex, then it's not our place to destroy that fantasy.