Ygrain Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I do believe Aegon is fake. While "mummer's dragon" could be meant in a strictly possessive sense, i.e. a real dragon belonging to/manipulated by Varys, we also have a hint at "dragons true and false" and a fake cloth dragon from Dany's vision. Vague as the visions and prophecies are, they seem to suggest that at some point, there will appear a false claimant. I do not want to think much what "slayer of lies", as Dany is called, might mean. The truth could only be confirmed by exposing Aegon to the dragons, which seem to be able to detect some property in the Targaryen blood, and that will be a true do or die moment. However, since the dragons hardly care about lineages, they would probably acknowledge a Blackfyre as a Targaryen, as well, or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think he is legit. In their youth Varys and Illryio ran the hustle where Varys would steal valuable items and Illryio would "find" them. Let me ask what could be more valuable than the true heir to the Iron Throne of Westeros? It's the ultimate score for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Why would the company founded by Bittersteel want to aid a legitimate Targaryen?Because he is at least a Targaryen? And if the Blackfyres are all dead then the company has probably lost its purpose.The company as we meet it is barely Westerosi anymore and they do not seem overly concerned about who is rightful ruler of Westeros. During the meeting of the officers one makes a comment like 'he may even be the real Aegon' - they are not too interested in whether Aegon has a rightful claim but in having a cause that can take them back to Westeros. The family could have fallen on hard times after the Ninepenny Kings war.A life of slavery is an extreme version of hard-times. We have seen that misfortune can make even the high-born slaves with Jorah and Tyrion, but if you have friends and resources you are not going to remain a slave long. The Blackfyres had 10,000 friends in the form of the golden company - so I find it unlikely that a Blackfyre woman would somehow end up being sold as a bedwarmer to a Pentoshi merchant. Surely if the family is extinct, he'd have just said, "The Blackfyres are extinct." Saying it's "male-line extinct" leaves open the possibility that it's still alive in the female line. Kind of like when Martin would only say that Rhaenys was killed and didn't make a call on Aegon.40 years ago the male line was exhausted, suggesting there were female line claimants still around then. That does not mean the female line did not die out 20 years ago, or 30.Or maybe the female line Blackfyres refers to the line of courtesans in Bravos? The one that bought oysters from Arya. They would not be eligable for a crown as they are presumably bastard born. Or are they descended from a different Targaryen?I think Aegon is a fake, but he and Connington appear to believe he's not. If Illyrio wants to win over Blackfyre supporters and tells them Aegon is actually a female-line descendant rather than Rhaegar's son, isn't that risky? What if they talk, accidentally or intentionally, and injure Aegon's cause with the Westerosi nobles or inspire the new King Aegon to turn against Illyrio because he was lied to? I've only read the first Dunk story, so I admit this is all a bit confusing to me.This is a really good point.I would also add that only Homelass Harry Strickland (and perhaps his second-in-command) even knew why the GC was near Volantis. It seems unlikely the whole company (or even the whole officers cadre) got let in on this big secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yes, using physical appearance as genetic proof is a very superficial tool in storytelling. But it still is what kicked off the entire story... It felt weird at the time, but .now i more or less accepted it as part of the asoiaf universe(begrudgingly).So it's a weird turn that it does not seem to matter anymore for aegon and jon. If ned would have caught cersei and jaimie in the act, or if he had found a love letter, we wouldn't have this discussion in the first place.Not necessarily weird. I think in one of Tyrion’s chapters he notes that the brothels were full of silver haired purple eyed people and that, coupled with GRRM’s remark, makes it more than possible that Aegon is actually Fagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanthemedium Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 yeah...I guess it seems too much of a coincidence. But maybe, he IS actually a dragon, only he is 'fake' because he isn't 'THE dragon' of the prophecies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Not necessarily weird. I think in one of Tyrion’s chapters he notes that the brothels were full of silver haired purple eyed people and that, coupled with GRRM’s remark, makes it more than possible that Aegon is actually Fagon.Huh, the descendants of other survivors of Valyria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 What if he thinks he is Aegon? seriously how would he know, connington does not even know for sure. Even if he is a a fake or a Blackfyre he could still be a good king, but with the walkers coming all bets are off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Huh, the descendants of other survivors of Valyria? Valyria is located in Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 What if he thinks he is Aegon? seriously how would he know, connington does not even know for sure. Even if he is a a fake or a Blackfyre he could still be a good king, but with the walkers coming all bets are offHe probably does think he's Aegon. That's what makes the plan so brilliant and so tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaeva Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 He probably does think he's Aegon. That's what makes the plan so brilliant and so tricky.Agreed.*If* Aegon is a pretender, as I believe he is, I don't think he is in on the fact that he's not Aegon. For the security of the plot he was raised believing he is the prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 A life of slavery is an extreme version of hard-times. We have seen that misfortune can make even the high-born slaves with Jorah and Tyrion, but if you have friends and resources you are not going to remain a slave long. The Blackfyres had 10,000 friends in the form of the golden company - so I find it unlikely that a Blackfyre woman would somehow end up being sold as a bedwarmer to a Pentoshi merchant.It could easily depend on where the Blackfyre women were and how bad the defeat on the Stepstones was during the War of the nine penny kings. We see people being reduced to slavery through war, through debt, by being captured - the possibilities for a nice ordered life to be turned upside down by a series of unfortunate events (or even just one stroke of bad luck) seem almost limitless at times in Westeros.Again with Blackfyres running about among the Free Cities for generations the chances that there were marriages into local families who later fell on hard times seem quite good (or bad depending on how you look at it).And if you don't want to run with a Blackfyre we are told that people in Lys look Valyrian and Aurienne Waters looks like Rhaegar despite not, apparently, being his son. Your basic Targaryen-look-alike stock with Lillac to Purple eyes and silver blond(e) hair doesn't seem rare in those parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 *If* Aegon is a pretender, as I believe he is, I don't think he is in on the fact that he's not Aegon. For the security of the plot he was raised believing he is the prince.If so, it is one of the great parallels GRRM seems to love. We have a fake raised as a prince, he 'knows' he is a prince and is sure to be in his right if he claims his rights. And we have a prince who is not raised as a prince, who does not know he is a prince and as a bastard has no rights to claim.Nice parallel plotlines.edited for fuzzy English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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