Who do you think will be the REAL Villain?

[butterbumps!]

A lot of other threads have been spilling into talk about who people think the real villain, bad guy, great evil to overcome will be. Do you think there's an epic villain or entity? Who or what do you think the "Final Boss/es" will be (and why?)

Some ideas tossed out from other recent threads:

Dany

Euron

Littlefinger

Bloodraven/ Bran

Varys

Humans

Human use of Magic*

Dragons

White Walkers

The Great Other (apparently, Hodor)

R'hllor

Gumpkin Army*

(* my preferred theories)

ETA: Thnx Censored Wolf

[kwvapor]

Old Nan and Hodor.

You forgot to list Dany, that'd get this thread going.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Hot Pie!

ETA. Gumpkin Army?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Lady Hodor]

Littlefinger. It is known.

[butterbumps!]

Hot Pie! ETA. Gumpkin Army?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You know I can't pass up an opportunity to lobby for those fluffy little grumpkins! But I actually am genuinely curious about what people are thinking of this and why-- we kind of dance around it a lot around here.

[Victarions Secret]

LoL, its going to be Ros the hooker... Everybody fucks her, until everybody realizes they've been fucked. Ros got AIDS ^^ trollololol!

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think that it will probably the both the Others and the Dragons as forces of destruction, with "Extremes" being the "real villain," so to speak. The successful hero or heroes will restore balance, and that means getting rid of both the extremes of ice (Others) and the extremes of fire (dragons).

[Gingerly Grumkin]

You know I can't pass up an opportunity to lobby for those fluffy little grumpkins! But I actually am genuinely curious about what people are thinking of this and why-- we kind of dance around it a lot around here.

No Grumkis are chill, just don't make eye contact. It's the damn Snarks you gotta watch out far

[Lord Ben]

I don't know if there will be one. Just groups of people working at cross purposes.

Or the proper answer would be "the side that doesn't get to write history"

[Jamie Lannister]

Ramsay might pull it off, if he sticks around. He's pretty much made it his life's mission to make as many people as possible want to kill him.

[Dr. Pepper]

I think dragons are the most obvious villains. It's easy to point this out so it's not satisfying to debate.

I think humans will prove to be the most villainous. Anything shown to be evil in the series is actually the creation of humans - everything from R'hollor to the Faith to using magic to hatching dragons to games of the nobles to war to rape to....you get the idea. It sort of works that way in real life. All the bad that exists in the world is human-created. We are our own worst enemy.

[ARYa_Nym]

I don't think that there will be a villain but perhaps all forms of magic needs to go by the end of the series.

[butterbumps!]

I think dragons are the most obvious villains. It's easy to point this out so it's not satisfying to debate.

I think humans will prove to be the most villainous. Anything shown to be evil in the series is actually the creation of humans - everything from R'hollor to the Faith to using magic to hatching dragons to games of the nobles to war to rape to....you get the idea. It sort of works that way in real life. All the bad that exists in the world is human-created. We are our own worst enemy.

I think that's really interesting and highly debatable. I got the sense that popular consensus is that the White Walkers or what have you up North is the great enemy that humanity will fight against, and that Dany will be needed at the Wall to vanquish this enemy with dragons (also popularly considered "Lightbringer"). Like your post in the other thread- how GOT is bookended by 2 "powers"- WW in the prologue and dragons in the finale, and that one has been set up as evil and the other as a means of ridding that evil.

[Lan the Clever]

I think the REAL villain won't be a physical entity, but rather all the hate/distrust that comes from difference, from lack of understanding, of acceptance and respect for others. All the wrongs ultimately come from conflict between sides who don't necessarily want opposite things, but aren't willing to aknowledge that.

[the Scorpion Knight]

the darkness of the human heart

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

There won't be one singular entity that can be recognized as the real villain.

[Jolene Brown]

I think Varys and Littlefinger are truly the real villains. I actually hate them even more than sickos like the Mountain and Ramsay, because I think they have caused the maximum amount of suffering through their manipulations. It also kills me that people like Jaime and Kevan are still thinking of Littlefinger as a good option for the Hand and Edmure speaks of Littlefinger fondly (!!!!) in A Feast for Crows. Jesus. Oh, and the total self-justifying bullshit Varys spews as he murders Kevan, one of the very few mostly genuinely decent people in this series, enrages me beyond words.

[Lan the Clever]

I think Varys and Littlefinger are truly the real villains. I actually hate them even more than sickos like the Mountain and Ramsay, because I think they have caused the maximum amount of suffering through their manipulations. It also kills me that people like Jaime and Kevan are still thinking of Littlefinger as a good option for the Hand and Edmure speaks of Littlefinger fondly (!!!!) in A Feast for Crows. Jesus. Oh, and the total self-justifying bullshit Varys spews as he murders Kevan, one of the very few mostly genuinely decent people in this series, enrages me beyond words.

Edmure doesn't know Littlefinger as well as we do.

[Dr. Pepper]

I think that's really interesting and highly debatable. I got the sense that popular consensus is that the White Walkers or what have you up North is the great enemy that humanity will fight against, and that Dany will be needed at the Wall to vanquish this enemy with dragons (also popularly considered "Lightbringer"). Like your post in the other thread- how GOT is bookended by 2 "powers"- WW in the prologue and dragons in the finale, and that one has been set up as evil and the other as a means of ridding that evil.

Yes, I meant to mention the Others along with the dragons, but honestly my mind was still blown from you pointing out the monsters bookend in AGOT. :bowdown: I started thinking about it and my thought process at the moment was that the Others weren't evil.

Here is the process...AGOT begins with the Others presented as totally evil and scary and OMFG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE and then ends with the dragons presented as these cool, mystical, and totally OMG NOW WE'RE SAVED. But as the story goes on, we get a lot closer look at what a dragon actually is. We see dragons burn and kill. We get the history of dragons being used to enslave an entire region and used to conquer continents. We begin to see that they aren't actually good. And what have we got with the Others? Well, they have language and seem to have humor and they can forge their own weapons and they generally don't randomly attack. To me, it's unclear whether or not they create wights as wights are risen even in the absence of the Others. Basically, we've had no clear evidence that they are bad despite the very first prologue painting them as dreary, evil things while we've had clear evidence that dragons are bad despite them being narrated as pretty cool.

I guess my point is that your mind blow detail of the monsters bookend just makes me reconsider how I view the Others. I still am of the opinion that extremes aren't generally good, but I'm starting to wonder if they are necessarily bad just because it's an extreme.

[Christine K]

Something I don't get (and feel like an idiot for) is the difference between Others, wights, and White Walkers. Can someone please explain it to me?