Dragon-Wolf Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yeah, Khal Raggat was generally a complete prick, but I did feel a little bad for him at the end. His main problem was his sense of entitlement which both Darry and Illyrio nurtured, we know in Illyrio's case that it was for his own personal gain (somehow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark4life Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I also believe that the Mad King fathered Cersie and Jaime. This could explain the Cersie's madness, and maybe the incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 In regards to incest, for some reason Targaryens and those who have a strong dose of Targaryen blood have these emotions. the Martells were the closest Targaryen relation, that is why the Mad King chose Elia Martell to marry Rheagar when he had no sisters to marry (Dany was not born yet). Doran's daughter Arrianne had a thing for her uncle, The red viper. There is a pattern. Jaime and Cersie acted just like Targaryen brother /sister siblings. It is simply two obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evamitchelle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 In regards to incest, for some reason Targaryens and those who have a strong dose of Targaryen blood have these emotions. the Martells were the closest Targaryen relation, that is why the Mad King chose Elia Martell to marry Rheagar when he had no sisters to marry (Dany was not born yet). Doran's daughter Arrianne had a thing for her uncle, The red viper. There is a pattern. Jaime and Cersie acted just like Targaryen brother /sister siblings. It is simply two obvious.Tywin and Joanna were incestuous cousins. It's not just a Targaryen thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 double post, shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Tywin and Joanna were incestuous cousins. It's not just a Targaryen thing. cousins and siblings and aunts and uncles are somewhat different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood! Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 "Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake" "truth now, do you really want to see your brother sit the iron throne? Viserys is described as truly Aerys' son....it does not make him a moral man that he would threaten the life of his sister and her unborn child just to get his "crown." He was delusional and insane but does that excuse his inherent cruelty?I am not saying that Viserys was a great man, he wasn't even a particularly good one, still he wasn't an evil man either and under different circumstanses he would have been a decent man.As for his "inherent cruelty" I say such a thing is nonexistent, what it the most cruel thing he actually did?He was big on emty threats but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadphoenix Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Have you read all the books? Hint, read especially Dany and Barristan's interactions in ADWD. Then look at the pov, where Jaime is watching Cersie after she sets the Tower of the Hand on fire early in AFFC. Then, come back to this comment and re-think it.Yes I have. But you don't have to be a Targaryan to be mad...Jaime recalls how crazy Aerys looked while looking at fire and sees that same insanity in Cersei's face. But that doesn't make her the spawn of Aerys, just similarly crazy. I would think this would be the dumbest and most unnecessary twist ever if they revealed they were Targaryans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm thinking the madness is a result of inbreeding, so if R+L=J is true, Jon's chances of becoming "mad" are lessened. However, I think it's been hinted at that you have to have two Targaryen parents in order for dragons to "like" you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurararaFTW Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 mad, crazy and specifically getting off on fire are different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinso Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think that the whole thing with the madness is blown out of proportion, both in the setting and among the fandom. I mean, really, which Targaryens are downright crazy? Aerys, maybe Viserys (though his case might as well be just a severe form of douchebaggeriticus); from the history we have Aerion Brightflame, Rhaegel and maybe Baelor the Blessed. And that's about it. Two characters from the books and maybe three from history. Against tens of perfectly sane and normal Targaryens (some of them were dicks or slobs, but they were perfectly fine mentally).Assuming that R+L=J and that "Aegon" is real (funny enough, I actually disagree with both possibilities), we have two perfectly normal young men who have shown no tendency towards madness whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I liked Aerion Brightflame, the man knew how to be batshit crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 What we've witnessed so far with the Targaryens is that, if they are mad, they've been mad since birth. Barristan even comments to Dany that he noticed Viserys had the "taint", which her father also had. It seems to take a huge event in their lives to turn this taint into full on madness, however; for Aerys, this was the Defiance at Duskendale, and for Viserys it was selling his mother's crown.Daenerys, so far, has shown no signs of the taint. She is very proud and fierce, but not mad (she reminds me of the top business men and women who came from nothing). Aegon, on the other hand, real or not, seems to have the taint (see: his game of cyvasse with Tyrion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 What we've witnessed so far with the Targaryens is that, if they are mad, they've been mad since birth. Barristan even comments to Dany that he noticed Viserys had the "taint", which her father also had. It seems to take a huge event in their lives to turn this taint into full on madness, however; for Aerys, this was the Defiance at Duskendale, and for Viserys it was selling his mother's crown.Daenerys, so far, has shown no signs of the taint. She is very proud and fierce, but not mad (she reminds me of the top business men and women who came from nothing). Aegon, on the other hand, real or not, seems to have the taint (see: his game of cyvasse with Tyrion).Agreed. Aegon irks me in a way Dany never does. I mean he was outwitted in a game of wits by one of the smartest characters in the entire universe, learn from it dawg don't flip out. As for Viserys earlier I agree he had a shitty life and selling the crown was a turning point for him but he hit Dany. "Waking the dragon" ya know. Robert slapped Cersei once and he's never lived it down on these boards but it hardly gets mentioned how much of a douche Viserys was to Dany. It's cruel to hit a defenseless girl of 13 years old who is also your sister, kinda hart to dispute that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantôme Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 What we've witnessed so far with the Targaryens is that, if they are mad, they've been mad since birth. Barristan even comments to Dany that he noticed Viserys had the "taint", which her father also had. It seems to take a huge event in their lives to turn this taint into full on madness, however; for Aerys, this was the Defiance at Duskendale, and for Viserys it was selling his mother's crown.Daenerys, so far, has shown no signs of the taint. She is very proud and fierce, but not mad (she reminds me of the top business men and women who came from nothing). Aegon, on the other hand, real or not, seems to have the taint (see: his game of cyvasse with Tyrion).A bit of a childish temper doesn't equal "the taint" to me. If anything I'd be more worried about Dany comparing herself to a god. I don't think either of them are mad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinso Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Wait, "Aegon" throwing a tiny tantrum means he has "the taint"? Really? It means that he is young, rash and maybe a tendency towards being an asshole if something doesn't go his way, but madness? Come on, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 A bit of a childish temper doesn't equal "the taint" to me. If anything I'd be more worried about Dany comparing herself to a god. I don't think either of them are mad though. Childish temper? Aegon was born before Rhaegar had even eloped with Lyanna, meaning he is around two years older than Dany, correct? That means he's around 18 during ADWD. That's well past the age where kicking a cyvasse table can just be excused as having a "childish temper".All I'm saying is that Aegon's behaviour is currently more in line with the actions of Viserys and Aerys than Dany's has ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantôme Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Childish temper? Aegon was born before Rhaegar had even eloped with Lyanna, meaning he is around two years older than Dany, correct? That means he's around 18 during ADWD. That's well past the age where kicking a cyvasse table can just be excused as having a "childish temper".All I'm saying is that Aegon's behaviour is currently more in line with the actions of Viserys and Aerys than Dany's has ever been.Childish can apply to anyone of any age you know. I know he's 18, that's why it's worth noticing he behaves like a child then..I don't agree. I don't see anything that shows his behaviour closer to Viserys than Dany's. I don't think either of them are close to behaving like him actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadphoenix Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 To anyone claiming Aegon's behavior after losing to Tyrion indicates he is insane, do you guys not have overcompetitive friends at all? One of my friends came to an event we set up on the beach to play volleyball and grill out for an afternoon / evening. The very first game him and his team got beaten badly and he slammed the ball down and stormed home, the rest of us stayed out for another 4-5 hours as planned. Back in college I had a friend who would lose to me in Madden, throw my controller onto the ground with force, and then go home and not talk to me until he cooled down. Personally I just want to have fun, don't care if I win or lose games which have no real stakes to them...but some people are just wired to always want to win and be, frankly, assholes when they don't. These guys are / were older than Aegon is in the books BTW.Did I think my friends were crazy or insane? Not at all, both of those guys are actually really cool and have given me good, sound advice multiple times. They just are bad sports, it is a personality flaw of theirs IMO. But not one that makes them bad people. So I refuse to put so much weight on Aegon being a bad sport.Think of it this way, if you didn't know Targaryans historically had a propensity for madness, would you even have cared so much he did that beyond just thinking, "what a jerk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurararaFTW Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I suppose Jorah is totally Aerys level for actually hitting Tyrion when he makes a joke he doesn't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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