What exactly is the appeal of Jon Snow?

[lyvyathan]

The problem is not that Jon makes moral choices (he does). It's that he keeps getting saved from the consequences of them,

Jon decides to desert and go to war with Robb? Sam saves him from the consequences.

Jon decides to let the Enemy escape because he can't kill a woman? Qhorin ignores it.

Jon doesn't want to kill Qhorin? Qhorin and Ghost force him to.

Jon decides not to kill the old man? Ygritte saves him from the consequences.

Jon is caught in a Mance dilemma? Stannis turns up just in time.

So what? Other characters get saved by other characters or by fate or chance as well. For example....

Catelyn faces an assasin armed with a valyrian blade but manages to use her bare hands against Valyrian steel to save herself. IIRC a direwolf steps in to save her.

Catelyn comes face to face with a dwarf whom her pimp friend claims may have something to do with her son's attempted assasination - she manages to rouse strangers at the Inn to save her from this fearful midget and to transport him to see her wacky sister cloistered in an area surrounded by murderous mountain clansmen. Most of her armed escort gets killed in the process, except for her - thanks to... said dwarf whom she hates, Tyrion Lannister.

Catelyn gets saved by Tyrion in the Vale from said mountain clansmen.

Catelyn is sent on a mission to parley an alliance with Renly - she eventually runs off with the person everyone suspects as the assasin. Somehow she manages to ninja her way out with the suspected assasin and escapes Renly's camp.

Catelyn releases Jamie Lannister - a vital enemy prisoner but Robb saves her and puts her in a room to sew and knit as opposed to hanging her for treason.

Catelyn is finally killed at RW and is thrown into the river where she lies for a couple of days - unfortunately it does not improve her temper one bit. And the deux ex machina happens again - guess what? She gets resurrected back to life!!!!

I think you need to stop placing the leech on Bolton's behind.

[lyvyathan]

So...You wish Jon was dead is pretty much what you're saying? Correct me if I'm wrong. This is a fantasy series, in order to manufacture drama characters are put in life and death situations all the time. It wouldn't be much of a series if A)These characters weren't put into life and death situations, and B)These characters were, and then died.

I can imagine the complainer screaming in frustration at the end of the Lord of the Rings trilogy when the Eagles show up to save the day. Or when Han Solo shows up in Star Wars (also called The New Hope) and helps shoots down/distract Dark Vader and the other two Tie-fighters from shooting down Luke Skywalker.

A more interesting question is why people who love irrational stupid characters like Catelyn Stark nee Tully hate Jon Snow?

[lyvyathan]

Let's accept your premise that Bowen is as bad morally and incompetent as you claim (I have my doubts, but let's leave this aside for now). Why did Jon kept him as what amount to his second or third in command then and didn't do anything to keep an eye on him? Isn't this a serious failure of leadership?

Other great leaders have suffered from similar backstabbings... Julius Caesar for example and in recent times, Kevin Rudd (haha)... Just because they got assasinated by someone close to them doesn't necessarily make them bad leaders.

[lyvyathan]

Jon is a character we get to watch evolving from a boy into a man while enduring very personal struggles of self, love, duty, and honor. He is hated by Cat but still deeply loves all his siblings. He excludes himself from the Starks to convince Ned to keep the direwolves, lies to Robb about his mother being kind when he said goodbye to Bran, and is able to make friends with Tyrion despite the open hostility between Lannisters and Starks.

All there in the First Book - I really like the fact that he lied to Robb - hiding Catelyn's horrible outburst to him - I fond that truly admirable and worth emulating. Now if he was truly whiny, he'd have reported what Catelyn said to him to Robb and let him know how he felt about it. But the fact that he hid his anger and hurt from his step-brother was a really powerful scene and shed a lot of positive light on Jon's character.

[lyvyathan]

Said another way, it's not because simple bread has been sustaining men for millenia, and is something I regularly eat, that it's not bland and less interesting than a dish, or even simply toast with marmalade. When you are not understanding why some people find Jon uninteresting, it is just as if you were not understanding why at a feast, people would find the little foie gras and fig toasts accompanied by a flute of champagne more interesting than white bread with a glass of tap water.

Yay for strawmen and believing originality is binary.

I find it ironic then that you brought up the food comparison analogy then. Strawmen? Maybe you meant the foie gras. hahaha.

[lostcause]

This conversation still going, ha.

Simply put, Jon Snow appeals to people that like to read the inner turmoil of a generally good character.

Luckily for his haters, there are plenty of vile characters they can embrace and/or relate to in the story. :)

[Seelmann]

Is this a troll? Jon was set up to be the most likeable character in the whole series, he reminds me of Ned. Jon is the only person apart from Arya who I actually want to survive the series.

[House Balstroko]

He's the underdog in the series. Gets rejected due to his origins and needs to find ways to work around them in order to survive. He has good intentions and doesn't discard individuals based off their origins (wildlings, giants).

Other points:

-great respect for his Stark brothers and sisters

-helps Sam find his place in the NW

-Establishes a common front on the wall (union of NW, wildlings, giants, king's men)

-Is progressive in his ideals (believes in the greater common good, rather than letting his wows restrict his views)

[TalalOfDorne]

I admit that I only read his chapters to find out what is happening in the wall and beyond. But I dont think he has no personality he migh just be less open towards his emotions, and he did NOT have it easy and the proof of that is all the reasons that were mentioned before. Even if he was Kingly material i wouldnt want to see hime in the Iron Throne it would be too predictable

To me he is a good character, but not a favorite.

[Child of Storm]

Personally, I really like Jon Snow. I love his POVs and he's gone through a huge transformation from boy to man. The notion that Jon hasn't suffered enough is just...whoa...not true. Not in the least. He's suffered a lot. Yes, to varying degrees than the other characters, but has still suffered. I think the only difference is that he's dealt with his suffering in a better way than some of the other characters. He's not going to allow his setbacks to destroy him.

[Jaime's Wench]

Jon is one of my least favourite POV characters, too, but that isn't because I think 'he's had it easy'. The temperature at the Wall makes it difficult enough for him. Plus he fell in love with the wrong woman, fought against her in a battle, then watched her die. On a personal level, that's pretty heart wrenching. Plus he never wanted the position of LC but was wheedled into it by Sam.

But like the OP, I enjoy Jaime and Tyrion's chapters far more because of their wittiness and the situations they are put in. The events of the wall just aren't as interesting. I do not find 'The Others' an interesting enemy because they are not human and neither have I engaged in the power struggles, squabbles and difficulties of the Night Watch brothers as much as I have the characters in the rest of Westeros.

Jon has some really brilliant aspects to his personality. He's very much his father's son in the sense that he's honour-bound, reserved, with a strong sense of duty, but he's also prone to rash decisions as shown by his short-lived but passionate relationship with Ygritte and the way he deals with the Ramsay letter. I think GRRM has dealt with his inner-conflicts well. But the 'interesting' bits have been few and far between.

[Darkstar is the Key]

If you don't like Jon Snow, you're just a miserable joke who hates life. Probably gothic and don't ever go outside and just want to read about misery. You all suck.

[Scipio Africanus]

If you don't like Jon Snow, you're just a miserable joke who hates life. Probably gothic and don't ever go outside and just want to read about misery. You all suck.

Well this might be construed as an opinionated and inflamitory post.

[The GreatRon]

I think too many people mesh HBO Jon into ASoIaF Jon. Especially after the abomination S2 portrayal.

Kind of surprised Jon doesn't interest a lot of people at this point in the story.

-R+J

-Robbs letter still out there

-Aegon 6 in Westeros and Dany still in the east. So is above is true and Aegon is real there are three Targs again.

-His cliffhanger is awesome and has to led to great discussions and theories about what is going to happen to him

[PatrickStormborn]

I think too many people mesh HBO Jon into ASoIaF Jon. Especially after the abomination S2 portrayal.

How could Jon not interest you at this point in the story.

-R+J

-Robbs letter still out there

-Aegon 6 in Westeros and Dany still in the east. So is above is true and Aegon is real there are three Targs again.

-His cliffhanger is awesome and has to led to great discussions and theories about what is going to happen to him

He doesn't interest me because he doesn't interest me. Don't use ridiculous sweeping generalisations, please; I'm very well aware that HBO Jon and ASOIAF Jon are different (although, as it stands, I prefer HBO's Jon because the world doesn't bend to make him special).

[Arkash]

He has a sense of humor unlike what is said

Wait...... what ?

He's only attempts at jokes were not even funny in a stupid way.

That's what makes him interesting, imo: he has no humor, he tries to have one, because he understands it is an important thing, but he just cant... he's dull, he's shy, he's stern... yes, he is boring, but in a way, that is what makes him interesting... and he's smart and intelligent, despite being a dull ass, I so enjoyed his decisions in Dance !

[King Aemon I]

Wait...... what ?

He's only attempts at jokes were not even funny in a stupid way.

That's what makes him interesting, imo: he has no humor, he tries to have one, because he understands it is an important thing, but he just cant... he's dull, he's shy, he's stern... yes, he is boring, but in a way, that is what makes him interesting... and he's smart and intelligent, despite being a dull ass, I so enjoyed his decisions in Dance !

I don't think Martin took it that far, giving everyone different senses of humors...

[Budj]

I actually found Jon funny...but hey....I like dry humor...

[Jaime's Wench]

I agree that Jon has an (occasional) dry sense of humour. But whenever I read the word 'TYRION' at the top of a chapter, I know that I will laugh at some point in the next twenty minutes. My gut has actually throbbed with pain before from laughing at some of his remarks. Very few men in real life can make me laugh that much. In that sense, Jon has a more 'realistic' sense of humour.

I find him sullen, though. I also find this 'hype' about R + L = J incredibly annoying and would love for it to not be true.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Probably gothic

You gotta be kidding! Dude dresses in all black, hangs out with an albino direwolf, Has a semi-ambivalent outlook on things that dont directly concern him and his (the wildlings certainly count as him and his if you think about it), has a real grasp of irony, goes "lol" at the sign of jerky authority figures, and is just pretty damn cool in general. Dude IS the Westerosi equivalent of a goth! XD Goths would love this guy! I do!

Another thing i love about Jon: He starts off as rather angsty and pretty emo about his being a bastard. But after a bit, he mans up and goes "im angsting for no good goddamn reason...I had it better than guys like Grenn..." and becomes a BADASS in the long run.

Besides Arya, i think hes actually my absolute favorite character in the series.