LordBloodraven Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Everybody has his favorite characters but Jon Snow never get a rest. Y u not castrated Jon Snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBrightflameII Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Jon is a good character, Darkstar is a great character - in one chapter he triggered a war, Daario is a cruel strutting peacock . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I don't really care much for the character. The only time I liked the guy was when he got really pissed about what was happening to Arya and considered going South. Aside from that he came across as very bland to me and I found no real reason to like the man. His arcs only interesting because of his interactions with funny characters like Tormund n Ygritte, the backdrop of the Others and the wall; then Stannis arrival. But for the most part I felt like he was just a pair of eyes to relay info about whats going on at the wall to the reader. He just doesn't seem to have as much of a character or personality or be anywhere near as interesting as say Jamie, or Tyrion, or even Theon as a POV character. Also, I don't think he suffered any real setbacks or suffered to anywhere near the extent of the other characters; nor did he have to contend with massive failure. Other characters have a lot of weakness (Dany) or they suffer a lot (Arya). Jon does not, nor does it come across. He joins an order, he immediately ingratiates himself with the wildlings, he escapes, saves the wall and becomes Lord Commander. He then does an extremely good job of running the wall, but is stabbed by a handful of traitors which ends his lucky star quite randomly. Until that point very few (if any) other characters had had it as good as Jon Snow. Hes a character without flaws and in this series its his only defining trait and you get the feeling from Tyrions POV that we're supposed to feel that "this guy should be a King". In other words, we're meant to be impressed by this guy and thats why we're supposed to like him. I don't know, just didn't care for the guy and the character. So, whats his appeal meant to be exactly? He's hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The Bastard Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Different things will appeal to different people. The beauty of GRRM's characters is in the sense they seem real IMHO... Personally, I enjoy Jon's story for personal reasons. One, my name is Jon. Two, I never knew my biological Father. I was adopted as a young child and raised by a wonderful family that attempted to shield me from where I came from. I did reconnect with my Mother in my adult life. All these things make Jon's story very intriguing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I disagree. We know that Bowen hardly speaks for the "men of the Watch." What I took from the DwD chapters is that Bowen + Co increasingly form a fringe coterie of members who do not agree with Jon here. But fine, let's say that they represent more men than I'm suggesting; let's think about why they don't agree with Jon, shall we? Wildlings are bad Wildlings are not men We should seal the gate Wun Wun is a dangerous monster Satin is "too homosexual" to be Jon's steward We hate wildlings The issues that they harp on all come down to their irrational hatred and prejudice for certain people. That Bowen appeals to the fact that there is little food is completely disingenuous; it's all about the fact that he wants no wildlings. I don't believe that what you said undermines Jon's abilities as a leader in any way. Again, there were many fringe dissenters who disagreed with the great men I already mentioned. In no way do I believe that the fact that they angered people to drastic action mitigates how great of leaders these people were. IMO, it says far more about the dissenters' being wrong and limited than it does about the leader being assassinated. I know this post is 3 years old but still. Jon doesn't get stabbed because people don't like the wildlings. He gets stabbed because he just announced he will lead an army to WF to help Stannis. The people are afraid his actions will destroy the watch if Stannis loses the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 He's the most empathic character in the series and one of the few, along with Jaime, who rises above the stupid prejudices and laws in the world he lives in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord of blogfell Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I don't think a person (or character, for that matter) needs to be extremely flawed and/or have suffered a lot to be likable/liked. plus: but that make him even more likeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I really don't care about his character for most of the reasons the OP mentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I see no reason to dislike him. It seems the ones who do go out of their way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Two things: - he's a good 'person' with well elaborated, deep characterization and (for me) a likeable personality and - his storyline after he met the wildlings is very interesting (I admit that before that point I didn't care much about him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Blues Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 No real setbacks? Well, apart from never knowing who his mother was, the loss of his father, brothers, sisters and uncle, being forced into a double betrayal, the death of his first real love as a result of the second of those betrayals, having to deliberately cut himself off from his friends, and a few more I could throw in but won't, maybe. Jon is to some extent less colourful and vividly drawn than, say, Jaime or Tyrion. But that doesn't make him less interesting. He shows real growth as a character, has real strength of character, he struggles and makes mistakes but retains a desire to do the right thing, even while having to find out what that is more ore less by himself. I enjoy his chapters immensely. Sorry. Just thought this was too great not to post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Knute Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I don't really care much for the character. The only time I liked the guy was when he got really pissed about what was happening to Arya and considered going South. Aside from that he came across as very bland to me and I found no real reason to like the man. His arcs only interesting because of his interactions with funny characters like Tormund n Ygritte, the backdrop of the Others and the wall; then Stannis arrival. But for the most part I felt like he was just a pair of eyes to relay info about whats going on at the wall to the reader. He just doesn't seem to have as much of a character or personality or be anywhere near as interesting as say Jamie, or Tyrion, or even Theon as a POV character. Also, I don't think he suffered any real setbacks or suffered to anywhere near the extent of the other characters; nor did he have to contend with massive failure. Other characters have a lot of weakness (Dany) or they suffer a lot (Arya). Jon does not, nor does it come across. He joins an order, he immediately ingratiates himself with the wildlings, he escapes, saves the wall and becomes Lord Commander. He then does an extremely good job of running the wall, but is stabbed by a handful of traitors which ends his lucky star quite randomly. Until that point very few (if any) other characters had had it as good as Jon Snow. Hes a character without flaws and in this series its his only defining trait and you get the feeling from Tyrions POV that we're supposed to feel that "this guy should be a King". In other words, we're meant to be impressed by this guy and thats why we're supposed to like him. I don't know, just didn't care for the guy and the character. So, whats his appeal meant to be exactly? <Dalton> Opinions vary. </Dalton> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 The appeal of Jon Snow is that he is the typical archetype fantasy hero troupe (very 80's fantasy) - basically the only one who is in ASOIAF. Some people like the bastard/orphan who really has secret royal blood, will have secret magic abilities and will defeat all the evil-doers, become the King and will live happily ever after with a beautiful queen story. He is ASOIAF's Aragorn. If I were a Jon fan though, I would be worried that Jon is TOO much like the archetype fantasy hero. These books are not typical fantasy and the author likes to overturn the apple cart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic. Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 You don't have to look further to it than the fact that he's likely the most legitimate person for the throne in a world surrounded by characters that want its power while he could care less about it. Also helps that he actually sees the real threat that humanity faces and isn't blinded by something else. In simpler terms he's one of the few characters not driven by power or revenge and probably the only that can fit into the hero archetype. Something this series at this point needs and someone easy to root for even if many consider him boring because he's a bit of a Mary Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damsel in Distress Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I don't find Jon appealing. There are other more interesting characters at the wall and that helped me get through his chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Jon is, with Daenerys, the closest to a standard fantasy hero in a world full of grey, flawed characters (and Dany is becoming increasingly grey or being put in situations in which she will have to become so). Some will hate him for that, while others will love him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 He's a small, undeveloped kid who doesn't feel like he's really part of the family around him, who ends up proving himself to be a real bad-ass and gets to bang a cute red-head. It's simple wish-fulfillment for a large portion of the fantasy-reading population, who tend to be nerdy weaklings who don't fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Since he doesn't make you giggle everytime he opens his mouth like a certain dwarf or is a hot exotic princess from an almost extinct family he's boring. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastetcat Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hmm... not really. Kit Harrington may be pretty (for the girls who are into the pretty boy with curls type), but he isn't at all Jon. For me, these two represent two very different characters who only have the name in common. I feel indifferent toward or even dislike clueless Jon Show, but love Book!Jon. I guess a more detailed discussion is not really warranted here though. :leaving: I sooo agree with you. TV Jon is so boring. The same dull face all the time. No sarcasm, no witty comment, no humor... He looks like his puppy just has been kicked.. so annoying. I am not against Kit H. but his (always) dumb expression annoys me to no end. In the TV show I don't see his evolution, his progress. He is basically the same person from the very first episode. Hi es just a "pretty face". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastetcat Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 He hasn't suffered enough?? Aside from all other things (betrayals,deaths,battles,plots, vs vs.) only being at the Wall and being a member of NW can be seen as a punishment.It's bloody cold out there,and Jon has to deal with a huge host of wildlings who are only running from WW.He was a bastard from the beginning and he was never truly loved at Winterfell either.Cat despised him and from what I can guess whatever the secret behind his birth,Eddard showed him little affection (I am not saying he didn't have affection,but he didn't show.He had a family in which he was already lonely and lost that family too.He lost his first love,he lost his uncle and countless other things.He has suffered enough.Jamie Lannister havent suffered for his entire life,so losing his hand of course changed him.Same is not true for Jon. In my opinion Jon's POV is sometimes boring,but his character is not boring.I think the Wall was really boring before Stannis arrived but when Jon was out there,amongst the free folk and climbing the Wall with Magnar's men etc it was epic. Jon is an honourable man.He has shown us he can be ruthless and he is also pragmatic too.In the entire series,Starks were flawless except their pride and their extraordinary self-righteousness.Jon being a bastard does not have that. Yeah,he is the good guy.But in the GRRM world good guy freezes at the Wall whereas incest-born psychos or drunks rule the kingdom. I agree. Jamie Lannister had EVERYTHING. He is a spoilt brat who had money, prestige, and fame, not to mention good appearance. Jamie had to loose his hand, to sit in a prison for half a year to START to become a decent person. Till this he was selfish - his only concerns is to be with Cercei and being a knight. He tried to kill a kid to continue to live his golden-dream live. He has done the right thing ONCE - to kill Aerys. Which was a right decision, but then for about 14 years he was like - "I have saved KL, now I have done enough. No one has the right to ask more from me." This was what I was feeling all the time I was reading Jamie. He JUST started to became the kind of man Jon Snow is at 14. So every time someone says Jamie developed so much, and he is a misunderstand hero, I laugh. He has a lot to learn. I could say: "You know nothing Jamie Lannister." Edit: spelling I found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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