total1402 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I mean (correct me if there are pre ADWD examples) but Jon Snow being predicted to be Azzor Ahai happened at the tale end of ADWD. Based on Mels vision and Jons dream with a fiery sword. Which is after a lengthy battery of reasons to label Dany as AA (or at least the prophetic entity the Rhollor worshippers think as being AA). The Comet announcing her coming, a red sword in the heavens.She wakes dragons from stone and the dragons as lightbringer.Quiathe saying that its Dany, not her dragons, but Dany herself that has brought magic back into the world. Specifically enahcning the power of fire magic. This is confirmed by the House of the Undying's attempt to covet her. The HBO adaptation is even more explicit on this point and goes to the point of making her fireproof. She also has the prophetic vision calling her "bride of fire".Suffice to say. It was laid on pretty heavily in the prior books. Then Martin pulls a red herring on this? Jons AA now? I don't see how red herrings like this work in a literary work; they just seem more like a "surprise" factor. Obviously if you like Jon Snow you'd like him having a bit more substance to him. But its just such a U-turn to pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 She as the AA is a red herring, just like the White Walkers are a red herring. It doesnt mean she isnt important, but she will not be the Queen who will unite the country and save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Since its assumed that Azor Ahai, The Stallion The Mounts The World, and The Prince That Was Promised are actually all one in the same, i dont think so. But thats just me. But again....the dragon must have three heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Maybe there are 3 or more AAs, dragon has three heads and all that. Maybe if one dies a new one just takes their place or something too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes and Tyrion says the Red Priests couldn't comprehend more than one saviour. But its a bit late to start establishing Jon as AA out of the blue.Plus, I don't think its coincidence that just as Dany is starting to be seen as AA that Martin immediately changes tac and puts the focus on another character regarding that. To me that suggests that her as AA was intentionally a head herring. Lead a person one way and then turn it on its head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I think it is way too early to say if Dany as AA is a red herring or if Jon as AA is a red herring or if they are both red herrings and AA is actually someone else entirely. Even if neither of them are AA, it is very obvious that they both will be important in their own way, so no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I think Dany is the AA red herring, as everyone except Melisandre believes her to be AA, and she is the most obvious candidate for the reasons stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Nah, it won't be Red Herring for Jon. Not a chance. You start hinting that Snow is something; you can be guarenteed that he is it. If its a red herring for Dany then I'am surprised the show felt the need to establish these things during season 2 and that Martin spent as long as he did on it. Her being or not being it hasn't really impacted her story (no special powers for instance) so saying she isn't it after all, is, kinda meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Nah, it won't be Red Herring for Jon. Not a chance. You start hinting that Snow is something; you can be guarenteed that he is it. If its a red herring for Dany then I'am surprised the show felt the need to establish these things during season 2 and that Martin spent as long as he did on it. Her being or not being it hasn't really impacted her story (no special powers for instance) so saying she isn't it after all, is, kinda meh.Its been hinted ever since we learned of Rhaegars belief that his child's song was one of Ice and Fire. Its been hinted at when Mel was trying to look for Stannis in the flames, but instead she found Jon Snow. It has been subtlety hinted at and honestly I believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZone Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 She wakes dragons from stone and the dragons as lightbringer.Holy crap you just made me realize what Stannis, rather Mel has been trying to do, Dany already did, because I forgot to consider the eggs stones, but Illyrio did say that the times petrified them to stone. Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redviper9 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Some have speculated on this forum that the entire AAR/TPTWP prophecy is a giant red herring: get all the readers focused on the idea that one single individual will fulfill it, when it might be several (or it might not come true at all).While there are more explicit hints at Jon being AAR/TPTWP in ADWD, one can argue that the R+L=J hints are subtle clues about Jon's possible "destiny." It was at the HOTU when we first learned that Rhaeger thought that Aegon was TPTWP, and since Aegon was presumed dead, then Jon (Rhaegar's possible son with Lyanna) could fill that role; it was also at the HOTU that we see the blue rose growing at the Wall. And we have Mormont's raven referring to Jon as "king" before they leave for the Great Ranging. Again, subtle hints that become less subtle once it's revealed that the Ghost of High Heart foresaw that the PTWTP would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella.No matter if the prophecy is fulfilled or not, I think both Dany and Jon will play a crucial role in the final two books and the (seemingly) impending war against the Others. Dany is special: she brought dragons back into the world and is riding one without the aid of a horn or binding spells. Jon is special, too: Melisandre sees him in her flames, he's had visions of fighting with a flaming sword, and he might be the child of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen).And I think Tyrion and Euron will play huge roles, as well. Moqorro does see their shadows looming in the flames, and it appears that he's more adept at interpreting fire visions than Melisandre is. I don't know if that means that they'll be dragon riders, but I wouldn't be shocked if their paths become increasingly intertwined with Dany's and Jon's (hell, Tyrion is already in Meereen) as the series draws to its end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Holy crap you just made me realize what Stannis, rather Mel has been trying to do, Dany already did, because I forgot to consider the eggs stones, but Illyrio did say that the times petrified them to stone. Thanks for that.Its just as reasonable though to think that when Stannis sacrifices Theon before the heart tree that he will wake the Stone Dragon. Jon is probably in some sort of coma and the frozen bodies analogy kept coming up n ADWD. If Jon's body is frozen solid, it will be like Stone and thus Stannis will wake him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 It's not at all too early to conclude that Jon is the red herring, unless you expect Martin to feed us more material from the prophecy that drastically modifies what we have seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Some have speculated on this forum that the entire AAR/TPTWP prophecy is a giant red herring: get all the readers focused on the idea that one single individual will fulfill it, when it might be several (or it might not come true at all).While there are more explicit hints at Jon being AAR/TPTWP in ADWD, one can argue that the R+L=J hints are subtle clues about Jon's possible "destiny." It was at the HOTU when we first learned that Rhaeger thought that Aegon was TPTWP, and since Aegon was presumed dead, then Jon (Rhaegar's possible son with Lyanna) could fill that role; it was also at the HOTU that we see the blue rose growing at the Wall. And we have Mormont's raven referring to Jon as "king" before they leave for the Great Ranging. Again, subtle hints that become less subtle once it's revealed that the Ghost of High Heart foresaw that the PTWTP would come from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella.No matter if the prophecy is fulfilled or not, I think both Dany and Jon will play a crucial role in the final two books and the (seemingly) impending war against the Others. Dany is special: she brought dragons back into the world and is riding one without the aid of a horn or binding spells. Jon is special, too: Melisandre sees him in her flames, he's had visions of fighting with a flaming sword, and he might be the child of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen).And I think Tyrion and Euron will play huge roles, as well. Moqorro does see their shadows looming in the flames, and it appears that he's more adept at interpreting fire visions than Melisandre is. I don't know if that means that they'll be dragon riders, but I wouldn't be shocked if their paths become increasingly intertwined with Dany's and Jon's (hell, Tyrion is already in Meereen) as the series draws to its end.Completely agree with thisI think honestly that GRRM presumably killed Jon because he wanted us to think that he was a red herring, when in fact he isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZone Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Its just as reasonable though to think that when Stannis sacrifices Theon before the heart tree that he will wake the Stone Dragon. Jon is probably in some sort of coma and the frozen bodies analogy kept coming up n ADWD. If Jon's body is frozen solid, it will be like Stone and thus Stannis will wake him.That is true, he is a dragon, but maybe it will be more in the Stark custom of making life like gravestones, thus a stone dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I still think AA is 3 (the 3 heads of the dragon) to 7 (7 kingdoms...7 Gods etc.) people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yep, I think Dany is a red herring, Jon is AA, the NW is Lightbringer, and Dany will be little more than another scheming, violent southern power trying to take the throne at the expense of the commoners whilst Jon saves ass up in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Generally, I'd say anybody who is outright called Azor Ahai in the text (Stannis, Dany, Aegon) is a Red Herring. Jon seems to be a strong contender, though I wish GRRM was trolling us all and it turned out to be Victarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Hand Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I still think AA is 3 (the 3 heads of the dragon) to 7 (7 kingdoms...7 Gods etc.) people.I think so too. Jon seems like he may be TPTWP, Dany killing Drogo to birth Drogon sounds like AA, but the dragon has 3 heads so the third will probably be another secret Targ.....Tyrion probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Dani is the hero of FireJon is the hero of Ice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.