Theories for TWoW, round 2 [SPOILERS]

[Set_Gecko]

I won't make predictions on major events, because they seem futile to me. Instead, I'm more concerned with the logistics of naval communication through Eastwatch by the sea. Remember about dead things in the water? Also, I think Melissandre tells Jon about a dark wave overwhelming that castle. We have 2-3 crucial voyages that might need Eastwatch by the sea and therefore might fail: Braavos banker getting back with that signed contract and Massey, bringing the sells words from across the sea for Stannis by Massey, bringing Rickon back from Skagos by Davos (some will tell that Davos might go back for White Harbour, but don't forget that he has to remain stealthy, and he might as well go straight for Westeros by the shortest route). Now, depending on Martin's whim I see either of those 3 being sabotaged by the dead things in the water

[Chalky]

On Ramsay Bolton:

I think his importance is underestimated on this board. Martin loves the cripples, bastards and broken things after all. Even the horrible ones.

With that in mind i predict:

Stannis defeats freys as per many theories already posted.

Manderly does the trojan horse trick and defeats Roose, allows stannis in and both theon and roose are executed.

HOWEVER...

Ramsay is still outside and misses Stannis' party. He also finds out that he's lost winterfell. This leaves two equally possible choices:

1) Head to the wall and attempt to kill Jon, Theon et all out of spite (he obviously won't know the jobs already done

2) head back to the dreadfort and lick his wounds.

Either way, stannis marshals the forces to stop the others and ramsay offers his support in exchange for a pardon.

Under point 1, Alliser probably would accept Ramsay into the nights watch as he needs more troops to bolster his anti Jon support. Ramsay would probably end up killing Thorne to side with Stannis (and Jon if he wakes up). Unless the others attack in which case he can deservedly die.

under point 2, stannis will probably pardon him in order to shore up the north into rallying against the others.

I know its my idea and I'm hideously biased but I like the possibilities from having ramsay and Jon near each other...Ramsay could attack stannis and/or jon at any point, adding to the drama

[mrlukeduke]

stannis spoke to jon of having a large store of dragonglass on dragonstone, and last we heard ser loras was "dying" on dragonstone from wounds received while taking the castle,

but maybe loras is up to something else on dragonstone, and maybe the dragonglass has something to do with that...?

Yeah this is what I'm thinking too, excellent points. I just made a new thread about Dragonstone and the suspicious events relating to this place, and how very significant this ancient fortress is to the big Ice & Fire plot in just so many ways. It should feature prominently in TWoW I hope!

[STANN1SBARATHEON]

Yeah this is what I'm thinking too, excellent points. I just made a new thread about Dragonstone and the suspicious events relating to this place, and how very significant this ancient fortress is to the big Ice & Fire plot in just so many ways. It should feature prominently in TWoW I hope!

oh for sure, i can't wait for TWOW,

and usually with Martin, nothing is written about without it being important to the story for some reason, sam and the broken horn he carries all the way from beyond the wall to oldtown is important (i think it's the real horn of winter), and Stannis mentioning the Dragonglass store on Dragonstone is definitely important, and Loras supposedly "dying" there only makes me more suspicious that there's something more going on at the old Targ stronghold than we know

maybe we should start a new thread about things like this that are mentioned in the books, that we know are important, but which yet to have their storylines revealed to us

can anyone think of any others?

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

under point 2, stannis will probably pardon him in order to shore up the north into rallying against the others.

A pardon for Ramsay would alienate the rest of the North and only gain whatever small number of swords Ramsay can still command so I can’t see GRRM having Stannis do that.

1) Head to the wall and attempt to kill Jon, Theon et all out of spite (he obviously won't know the jobs already done

I very much can see GRRM having Ramsay escape the (hopefully) destruction of Bolton power and reappear down the line seeking vengeance.

[Starkbringer]

The battle at Slaver's Bay, Dany and her new khalisar along with the battle in the North. Also, Aegon's quest in the south and Cercei's trail. I hope we learn of Jamie and Brienne's fate too. A dead Bolton and a living Jon Snow would make me happy but alas, I fear Jon will remain the un-reborn AA throughout most of TWOW.

[Chalky]

A pardon for Ramsay would alienate the rest of the North and only gain whatever small number of swords Ramsay can still command so I can’t see GRRM having Stannis do that.

Sadly when others invade he'd be in the dreadfort and behind stannis' troops. Diplomacy would be the only solution to guard stannis' backside. Roose can be blamed (justly) for the red wedding and theon blamed for sacking winterfell...

He's the last rival you want behind you when you attack the others. Mad enough to ruin everything out of spite...

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Sadly when others invade he'd be in the dreadfort and behind stannis' troops. Diplomacy would be the only solution to guard stannis' backside. Roose can be blamed (justly) for the red wedding and theon blamed for sacking winterfell...

He's the last rival you want behind you when you attack the others. Mad enough to ruin everything out of spite...

His reputation is pretty black ("The Boltons have always been as cruel as they are cunning, but this one seems a beast in human skin") and he’s won no friends through diplomacy since becoming the “true born” Lord of Winterfell. If he gets his hands on him Stannis would be best lopping his head off. If the Others appear on the horizon then the Dreadfort men will join the fight even if their Lords have been executed. If Ramsay escapes to the Dreadfort then better to leave a force besieging him than add him to the army. He’d not be a trustworthy ally..as you say he's mad enough to riun everything out of spite.

[Chalky]

His reputation is pretty black ("The Boltons have always been as cruel as they are cunning, but this one seems a beast in human skin") and he’s won no friends through diplomacy since becoming the “true born” Lord of Winterfell. If he gets his hands on him Stannis would be best lopping his head off. If the Others appear on the horizon then the Dreadfort men will join the fight even if their Lords have been executed. If Ramsay escapes to the Dreadfort then better to leave a force besieging him than add him to the army. He’d not be a trustworthy ally..as you say he's mad enough to riun everything out of spite.

Ironic solution for Jon and Stannis straight out of the Roose Bolton Guide to Tactics :

Post him on the front line. :cool4:

I think it would be more intere3sting if he joins the nights watch and cause problems that way though, especially for Jon and "Arya"

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

I think it would be more intere3sting if he joins the nights watch and cause problems that way though, especially for Jon and "Arya"

for sure...the longer Ramsay lives the more havoc he can sow.

[jeg521]

i dont think ramsay would be able to join the watch. with jon out of the picture for a while, the wildlings and the remaining watch will be at each others throat. Especially with bowen marsh leading the watch at castle black..

Jon will probably stay inside ghost for a while. Melisander saw that in one of her fires. she saw jon as a man, then a wolf, than a man again. So i think that last turn will probably make him azor ahai. Im still wondering what part will Val play with all of this

[Chalky]

i dont think ramsay would be able to join the watch. with jon out of the picture for a while, the wildlings and the remaining watch will be at each others throat. Especially with bowen marsh leading the watch at castle black..

They will. Which is why Ramsay would be welcomed by Bowen. Extra men with an anti-Jon sentiment to boot. The wildlings wouldnt be so keen but they might have left to join stannis by then anyhow

[Runaway Penguin]

I guess Bowen will be in no position to welcome anyone in the watch after Wun Wun treatment.Or Tormund treatment. Or Leathers treatment. Or Ranger treatment...

Even IF he took control of Castle Black (by no means sure), other garrisons (especially Wildling ones) would not recognize him - and ight at the Castle Black there is a LOT of people who are either fond of Jon or at least grateful to him for letting them to the Wall's safety. A LOT of people who wanted to join him in march on Winterfell. And even within the NW, Bowen may be a bigwig Steward, but the "sword" of the Watch - Rangers - probably would not like the development.

[jeg521]

im confident ramsay wouldnt be able to join the watch. think on it, what would bowen gain? nothing, just 1 cruel boy without an army and all north as an enemy, and if he lets ramsay join he would make an enemy of queen selyse and the remaining knights, plus the wildlings. looking at it thats pure death sentence already. Also if you look at the timeline, immediately after the attack on jon there would likely be chaos. With that, i dont see bowen surviving for too long. Especially with Wun wun, leathers, tormund around. Besides not all NW are loyal to bowen.

[Silverwind]

am I the only one who thinks Roose is so into fat walda he's willing to get rid of Ramsay? I mean its implied he knows ramsay will try to kill any other children he fathers.

[jeg521]

Roose wont kill ramsay. If he wanted to, he would have done it long ago. Roose believes its too late for him to father another son to be heir of dreadfort. That's why he's left with no choice but Ramsay. It makes no sense for him to arrange ramsay to be lord of winterfell only to kill him afterwards.

[Mojo the Hutt]

Well, this description is online. WoW is supposed to be 704 pages. It reads more like something for book 7 though, so beware.

Full description for The Winds of Winter

• Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sowrn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany's fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final clomactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance.
  

http://www.bookdepos...n/9780002247412

[malek]

What Sam will somehow learn in Oldtown, is how to kill dragons...

[setmyheartafire]

Is that a real synopsis?? Anyone have clarification?

[chrisdaw]

Victarion, Barristan and Tyrion's crew fight it out in Mereen with Dany arriving to finish up the victory. Tyrion becomes a dragon rider. Dany heads West.

Cersei wins her trial when Robert Strong annihilates Theodan.

Aegon and Arianne marry. The HS sides with Aegon and opens KL to him. Arianne is Cersei's younger more beautiful queen and sets out dismantling everything Cersei. Aegon spares Tommen/Myrcella, Doran dies, Arianne marries Trsytane to Myrcella.

Sand Snakes uncover and relay Cersei's treachery to the Tyrell's, Mace dies, Willas declares for Aegon, as do much of the Riverlands due to religious and Targaryen fervour.

Whatever happens on Hotah's hunt, he survives, his future and probable end will come under the command of his little princess.

Garlan leads his host against the Ironborn and defeats Harras Harlaw in glorious combat and becomes the owner of Nightfall.

Tyrion and Vic destroy the Lord of Waters. Vic ends up with the prized belongings of House Celtigar either directly (takes Claw Isle himself) or indirectly (takes the loot from another who has already taken the Isle).

Dany won't give The Tattered Prince Pentos, he tries to take it through trickery and fails, Dany appoints Pretty Meris the leader of the Windblown, Rakharo gets Caggo's Valyrian arakh.

Dany arrives with Aegon seated on the throne and in control of the South, Reach and Stormlands. There is a tepid truce between the two, as Aegon wants a dragon Dany isn't inclined to give him, Arianne turns Aegon against Dany and Dany finds playing second fiddle not how she imagined the other side of the red door.

Tyrion fans the flames behind the scenes, pitting one side against the other, pushing the theory Aegon is a pretender in Dany's ear and pushing his case for Casterly rock in Aegon's. By whatever means Aegon gets his dragon and Tyrion possibly with Aegon set out to conquer the Westerlands. They succeed and their return the Dance with Dragons 2 breaks out, Aegon vs Dany. Tyrion plays coy, sitting back waiting for the other two to destroy each other and the opportunity for himself to break both and seize the throne.

By the time Jaime and Brienne leave the BWB, one will be undead and Oathkeeper can be set alight Beric style.

Stannis wins the battle of Ice, takes Winterfell, he heads back to the wall with Mance where everything is in chaos and the two set about putting things in order.

Jon becomes Ghost. As ghost he travels to WF crypts. Bran revives him as an intelligent wight through the sacrifice of either BR or Theon.

Sandor returns, possibly something washes up on the Isle that brings him back. He kills Lyn Corbray and takes Lady Forlorn.