The Princess and the Queen [SPOILERS]

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I believe Lord Varys is correct that all the eggs seem as if they've turned to stone. Here are what should be all of the relevant quotes, (one from TMK, many from aGoT) note the descriptions of weight:

Lord Butterwell had placed it on a black velvet cushion atop a marble plinth. It was much bigger than a hen's egg, though not so big as he'd imagined. Fine red scales covered its surface, shining bright as jewels by the light of lamps and candles. Dunk dropped the dwarf and picked up the egg, just to feel it for a moment. It was heavier than he'd expected. You could smash a man's head with this, and never crack the shell. The scales were smooth beneath his fingers, and the deep, rich red seemed to shimmer as he turned the egg in his hands. Blood and flame, he thought, but there were gold flecks in it as well, and whorls of midnight black.

a stone reference from TMK:

The sight of it made him think back on the words the Fiddler had spoken, up on the roof. I dreamed that you were all in white from head to heel, with a long pale cloak flowing from those broad shoulders. Dunk snorted. Aye, and you dreamed of dragons hatching from stone eggs. One is likely as tother.

Dany sees the eggs for the first time:

They were the most beautiful things she had ever seen, each different than the others, patterned in such rich colors that at first she thought they were crusted with jewels, and so large it took both of her hands to hold one. She lifted it delicately, expecting that it would be made of some fine porcelain or delicate enamel, or even blown glass, but it was much heavier than that, as if it were all of solid stone. The surface of the shell was covered with tiny scales, and as she turned the egg between her fingers, they shimmered like polished metal in the light of the setting sun. One egg was a deep green, with burnished bronze flecks that came and went depending on how Dany turned it. Another was pale cream streaked with gold. The last was black, as black as a midnight sea, yet alive with scarlet ripples and swirls. What are they? she asked, her voice hushed and full of wonder.

Dragons eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, said Magister Illyrio. The eons have turned them to stone, yet still they burn bright with beauty.

So it is Illyrio who plants the suggestion that they are extremely old. "Shimmering like polished metal" etc. The descriptions don't actually sound very stone-like, except for the weight. Yet later multiple times she describes them as stony in some form or another.

As for the bonding, Dany clearly seems to be bonding with Drogon very very early on in the process. This is only her 3rd chapter:

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her, She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. Khaleesi, Jhiqui said, what is wrong? Are you sick?

I was, she answered, standing over the dragons eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shelf. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers... or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously.

Yet as the quote indicates, that is her second dragon dream. The first comes *before she has the eggs* yet she is clearly dreaming of hatching dragons:

There are no more dragons, Dany thought, staring at her brother, though she did not dare say it aloud.

Yet that night she dreamt of one. Viserys was hitting her, hurting her. She was naked, clumsy with fear. She ran from him, but her body seemed thick and ungainly. He struck her again. She

stumbled and fell. You woke the dragon, he screamed as he kicked her. You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon. Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again, Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found hers, she woke, shaking and covered with a fine sheen of sweat. She had never been so afraid...

... until the day of her wedding came at last.

more, Dany tries to convince herself that the heat from the eggs is natural:

As she let the door flap close behind her, Dany saw a finger of dusty red light reach out to touch her dragons eggs across the tent. For an instant a thousand droplets of scarlet flame swam before her eyes. She blinked, and they were gone.

Stone, she told herself. They are only stone, even Illyrio said so, the dragons are all dead. She put her palm against the black egg, fingers spread gently across the curve of the shell. The stone was warm. Almost hot. The sun, Dany whispered. The sun warmed them as they rode.

As an aside, this tidbit is interesting though not particularly related:

She had heard that the first dragons had come from the east, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai and the islands of the Jade Sea. Perhaps some were still living there, in realms strange and wild.

With Rhaegal's egg, no heat, but a sense that Rhaego is bonding with it?

Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her... as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood.

More descriptions of stoniness:

No. He cannot have my son. She would not weep, she decided. She would not shiver with fear. The Usurper has woken the dragon now, she told herself... and her eyes went to the dragons eggs resting in their nest of dark velvet. The shifting lamplight linmed their stony scales, and shimmering motes of jade and scarlet and gold swam in the air around them, like courtiers around a king.

and:

When the coals were afire, Dany sent Ser Jorah from her. She had to be alone to do what she must do. This is madness, she told herself as she lifted the black-and-scarlet egg from the velvet. It will only crack and Burn, and its so beautiful, Ser Jorah will call me a fool if I ruin it, and yet, and yet...

Cradling the egg with both hands, she carried it to the fire and pushed it down amongst the burning coals. The black scales seemed to glow as they drank the heat. Flames licked against the stone with small red tongues. Dany placed the other two eggs beside the black one in the fire. As she stepped back from the brazier, the breath trembled in her throat.

She watched until the coals had turned to ashes. Drifting sparks floated up and out of the smokehole. Heat shimmered in waves around the dragons eggs. And that was all.

Your brother Rhaegar was the last dragon, Ser Jorah had said. Dany gazed at her eggs sadly. What had she expected? A thousand thousand years ago they had been alive, but now they were only pretty rocks.

They could not make a dragon. A dragon was air and fire. Living flesh, not dead stone.

Fever dreaming of the birth of dragons, the death of her son (which has happened already, though she is not aware) and foreshadowing/predicting herself riding Drogon over the Dothraki sea at the end of aDwD:

Viserys stood before her, screaming. The dragon does not beg, slut. You do not command the dragon. I am the dragon, and I will be crowned. The molten gold trickled down his face like wax, burning deep channels in his flesh. I am the dragon and I will be crowned! he shrieked, and his fingers snapped like snakes, biting at her nipples, pinching, twisting, even as his eyes burst and ran like jelly down seared and blackened cheeks.

... dont want to wake the dragon

The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run.

... dont want to wake the dragon

She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogos copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

... want to wake the dragon...

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. Faster, they cried, faster, faster. She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. Faster! the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

wake the dragon

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

... the dragon...

And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. The last dragon, Ser Jorahs voice whispered faintly. The last, the last. Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.

Later she tries to crawl towards the eggs, knowing she must do something important, despite her utter weakness, fever and pain.

She does feel the heat off Viserion's egg, though she has only dreamed of Drogon still:

Bring me... she murmured, her voice slurred and drowsy. Bring... I want to hold...

Yes? the maegi asked. What is it you wish, Khaleesi?

Bring me... egg... dragons egg... please... Her lashes turned to lead, and she was too weary to hold them up.

When she woke the third time, a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent, and her arms were wrapped around a dragons egg. It was the pale one, its scales the color of butter cream, veined with whorls of gold and bronze, and Dany could feel the heat of it. Beneath her bedsilks, a fine sheen of perspiration covered her bare skin. Dragondew, she thought. Her fingers trailed lightly across the surface of the shell, tracing the wisps of gold, and deep in the stone she felt something twist and stretch in response. It did not frighten her. All her fear was gone, burned away.

But no one else seems to feel the heat:

Ser Jorah and Mirri Maz Duur entered a few moments later, and found Dany standing over the other dragons eggs, the two still in their chest. It seemed to her that they felt as hot as the one she had slept with, which was passing strange. Ser Jorah, come here, she said. She took his hand and placed it on the black egg with the scarlet swirls. What do you feel?

Shell, hard as rock. The knight was wary. Scales.

Heat?

No. Cold stone.

I wonder if there is foreshadowing in the placement of the eggs on the pyre. The spoiler chapters hint at Viserion possibly having a connection to Tyrion, though not in any certain terms. Tyrion would be an amusing connection given the placement of Viserion's egg... at Drogo's crotch:

She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-andstars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs. When she kissed him for the last time, Dany could taste the sweetness of the oil on his lips.

More similarities to stone during the birth of the dragons:

She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder.

Only death can pay for life.

And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear.for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, dont you see? Dont you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world.

That should be all the relevant quotes, though perhaps I'm missing Dany remembering detail about the eggs much later, or a reference in another book I'm not thinking of.

P.S. while searching for "egg" in aGoT I sure did learn a lot about leggings and begging. Then there's searching for "egg" in the Dunk and Egg novellas...

good job on the search

I think Dany'eggs Were not fossils based on this.

I think this brings light as to where illyrio got the eggs he probably stole it from dragonstone island

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I can't believe I completely missed that post. However, unless I'm missing some other post, nothing was said about the youngest son being responsible for "hatching" his own egg---just that "the 5th son (age 6, I think) only had an egg", in the context of him not (yet?) having an actual dragon. That's not confirmation that the Targs were actually responsible for hatching those eggs. After all, you still run into the problem of why, exactly, the eggs stopped hatching even though the Targs continued with the egg-in-cradle practice.

One possible reason for the Targs to have been constantly carrying eggs around ("There were references to some other children with dragon eggs who carry them everywhere and sleep with them") might have been to cover themselves in the eggs' scent---as a means of "masking" themselves so they could eventually trick the dragons into letting them approach (to use a dragon horn? We don't know how it works yet, but I've speculated elsewhere that the process might be twofold: smear your blood on the horn, smear your blood on a dragon, blow the horn, and you end up with a bonded dragon.) Dragons might very well be able to smell those eggs in a way that humans cannot, and there's a long tradition in fantasy of people getting past a monster by covering themselves in something belonging to that monster, so the monster doesn't see/smell them and therefore doesn't attack. The principle appears in ASOIAF in the story of Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, as Serwyn was able to get close to the dragon because he was "shielded" by something that reflected the dragon, so the dragon only saw "itself", not him. The Targs might have been operating under the same principle (but to allow them to get close enough to control the dragons, not to kill them).

I.e., in order to get close enough to a dragon to ride it (or use the dragon horn on it), the Targs first needed to smell like dragons, otherwise they'd get charbroiled. They didn't have actual dragon blood, so they needed an artificial method to trick the dragons. By keeping a dragon egg on their person 24/7 for some period of time, they would have been covering themselves in the egg's scent, which would mean that when they went to try and tame an adult dragon (or even a newly-hatched dragon), the dragon wouldn't (entirely, at least) smell them, only a dragon egg/baby dragon, and so would allow them to get close enough to get on the dragon's back and start the "taming" process. If the "give a kid an egg" practice had nothing to do with the eggs' actual hatching, that would explain why the hatchings stopped while the "egg" practice continued. And as time passed, the Targs kept doing the whole "give each kid a dragon egg" thing, but forgot the reasoning behind it.

Somewhere (it may have been the CapClave thread if it's not in this one) I read the quote as the child "hadn't managed to hatch his egg yet" indicating that he was held responsible for the hatching. There was discussion about it as well... I'll have to see if I can fish it up.

Interesting idea about dragon scent and the horn. I have to say though, the Rhaenyra baby (paired with Rhaego) is highly indicative that there is something different about Targ blood, as if they were indeed part dragon.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Somewhere (it may have been the CapClave thread if it's not in this one) I read the quote as the child "hadn't managed to hatch his egg yet" indicating that he was held responsible for the hatching. There was discussion about it as well... I'll have to see if I can fish it up.

Interesting idea about dragon scent and the horn. I have to say though, the Rhaenyra baby (paired with Rhaego) is highly indicative that there is something different about Targ blood, as if they were indeed part dragon.

I agree someone made an interesting theory that Valyrian sorcerers used magic to bind dragons to their blood and blood of their descendants

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

As to the question of why the eggs stopped hatching post DoD I think is cause of there being no dragons

Quaithe said dragons brought magic to the world perhaps them dying took away the magic to hatch them

[Good King Daemon]

I agree someone made an interesting theory that Valyrian sorcerers used magic to bind dragons to their blood and blood of their descendants

I agree it seems that the dragons and their descendants were bound to a family and their descendants (explains the reason for incest marriages) but why then did Dany's eggs hatch for her? If they were from Asshai they would not be bound to the targaryens. I suppose if you buy the Ilyrio/Serra/Varys are Blackfyres theory it might be the eggs that belonged to Daemon Blackfyre and his family(assuming they had any).

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I agree it seems that the dragons and their descendants were bound to a family and their descendants (explains the reason for incest marriages) but why then did Dany's eggs hatch for her? If they were from Asshai they would not be bound to the targaryens. I suppose if you buy the Ilyrio/Serra/Varys are Blackfyres theory it might be the eggs that belonged to Daemon Blackfyre and his family(assuming they had any).

My crackpot is that varys stole the eggs from dragonstone and gave it to illryio as part of their plans

[RumHam]

I agree someone made an interesting theory that Valyrian sorcerers used magic to bind dragons to their blood and blood of their descendants

Hey, I think that was me! Though I probably wasn't the first.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

good job on the search

I think Dany'eggs Were not fossils based on this.

I think this brings light as to where illyrio got the eggs he probably stole it from dragonstone island

I agree that the eggs most likely came from Westeros, not Asshai. We discussed this another thread last week. Since the likely smuggler would be Varys, KL might be a more likely place for their origin. Considering the Targ cradle egg practice-- it seems reasonable to theorize that the three Targs remaining in KL (Aerys, Rhaenys and Aegon) would have their eggs with them. Since no one ever found any eggs in KL after the Sack, we could assume someone removed them (if indeed they were ever there) Since the quantity fits and Varys would have had the opportunity it feels right to me. Of course, Egg also mentioned a cache on Dragonstone, so we can't rule that out either.

[Lord Varys]

Tze,

I think I came up with the assumption that the dragons of Rhaenyra's elder sons - the final say on the matter seems to be that the three Velaryon-Strong and Aegon III had the dragons, but as of yet only the elder two sons are involved in the war as envoys. The third Velaryon-Strong son does not have his dragon fully under control yet (at least that's Rhaenyra's assessment), and Aegon's III dragon being not yet big enough for him.

The fact that the age and size of the dragons of Rhaenyra's sons coincide with the age of the sons themselves along with the fact that Viserys II still carries an egg around strongly suggests to me that the dragons of Rhaenyra's sons all came from eggs that were given to them at birth. The only other option would be that the Targaryen dragons produced offspring whenever Rhaenyra got pregnant, as well. This would be a huge coincidence. And there is indeed a quote from the first report on Rhaenyra's sons and their dragons that her younger sons - Aegon III and Viserys II - had not yet hatched their eggs. I think the theory has at least some plausibility. Especially since GRRM introduced the concept of 'wild dragons' on Dragonstone in this story as well. If 'wild dragons' are riderless dragons out in the wild, how are they then different from the Targaryen dragons? 'Retired dragons' don't seem to the same as wild dragons. They appear to be tamed dragons who happen to be have no riders. But they seem to be among the nine dragons Rhaenyra has. The three wild dragons are named separately.

More importantly, we know that many Targaryen kings after the Dance, from Aegon III to Baelor the Blessed, to Aegon IV, all the way to Egg tried to hatch their remaining dragon eggs through magical means (well, okay, the Unworthy built wooden dragons and tried to transform them into living creatures). I would not be surprised if Aerys I also came up with a dragon-hatching plan, by the way.

It would simply made no sense to assume that the Targaryens assumed that they could hatch their dragon eggs if no Targaryen had ever hatched a dragon egg before. Everything seems to indicate that after the Dance the whole dragon-hatching just did not work anymore. Perhaps because there were no living dragons around anymore.

I remember a line about the last two twisted she-dragons who died during the reign of Aegon III: 'The last dragons they [i.e. the Targaryens] hatched on Dragonstone...' This is most likely from one of the D&E novels. So we could have known or suspected this thing for quite a long time...

By the way: My guess is that one of those last two she-dragons is going to come from the Egg of Viserys II. He is a six-year-old in 129 AC, so it's very likely that he is not going to get involved in the fighting directly. But Aegon III already has a dragon, and it might be grow large enough for him to ride it in 130 or 131 AC.

On dragonspawn freak children:

I'd not be surprised one bit if there have been more such freaky stillbirths like Rhaego and Rhaenyra's daughter. Back in Valyria as well as on Dragonstone and during the Targaryen reign up until the Dance. This could be a side effect both of a magical connection between the Targaryens and their dragons as well as of the incest. Especially any mad or sick Targaryen women during this time could have produced such offspring. We don't know way too less about all the dragon girls. Aegon and Aenys had daughters, and perhaps Jaehaerys and Alysanne as well. Not to speak about any sisters or cousins of Viserys I.

On the origin of Dany's eggs:

In TMK Egg states that all his brothers have dragon eggs (the Great Bastards did not get any, though, so most likely no dragon eggs for the Blackfyres - Daemon II had none, and this thief called Quickfinger was supposed to steal dragon eggs during the first rebellion), which strongly suggests that all the other trueborn descendants of Daeron the Good also got eggs (Baelor, his sons, Aerys, Rhaegel, his sons etc.); Elaena and her sisters had also eggs, and thus possibly also some of Elaena's children. But the important thing is that Egg also states in TMK that there are more dragon eggs on Dragonstone, 'from before the Dance'. This is apparently no longer the case during the main series. Mace Tyrell claims that Loras has found no trace of 'this fabled hoard of dragon eggs' on Dragonstone, and we also do know that Stannis apparently has no dragon eggs. At least no one mentions dragon eggs when Mel's intention of 'waking dragons from stone' are discussed.

Thus the best guess is that some king - possibly Aerys, but perhaps even Egg in preparation of Summerhall - moved the Targaryen eggs from Dragonstone to KL. If not all the Targaryen eggs were lost/destroyed at Summerhall, Aerys may have taken them to the Red Keep in preparation of his own bodily transformation into a dragon during the burning of King's Landing. Since Robert apparently also has found no dragon eggs, the best guess is that - if Dany's eggs are Targaryen dragon eggs - Varys has secured them during/shortly after the chaos of the Sack of King's Landing.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I agree that the eggs most likely came from Westeros, not Asshai. We discussed this another thread last week. Since the likely smuggler would be Varys, KL might be a more likely place for their origin. Considering the Targ cradle egg practice-- it seems reasonable to theorize that the three Targs remaining in KL (Aerys, Rhaenys and Aegon) would have their eggs with them. Since no one ever found any eggs in KL after the Sack, we could assume someone removed them (if indeed they were ever there) Since the quantity fits and Varys would have had the opportunity it feels right to me. Of course, Egg also mentioned a cache on Dragonstone, so we can't rule that out either.

Thats actually a very good idea.

That would have to mean Viserys and Rhaella had eggs aswell?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Its possible after the events of Summerhall Jaeherys the second may have done something with the rest of the eggs to prevent any one from trying something that drastic again.

[History of Westeros]

Its possible after the events of Summerhall Jaeherys the second may have done something with the rest of the eggs to prevent any one from trying something that drastic again.

I certainly don't recall any mention of Aerys or Rhaegar or Rhaegar's kids etc. having an egg in their cradle. I would guess Egg's children were the last to do it, other than Dany's eggs we haven't seen any make an appearance, with the possible exception of the one Euron probably gave to the HoBaW.

It's possible the last few generations of House Targaryen had no dragon eggs at all, though I still think it likely enough Dany's came via Varys.

[Old-Growth]

On dragons.

So the targaryen children hatched the eggs themselves? without going through the process Dany went through?

Dragon fire hatches dragon eggs. They might still have known that. (Ask yourself this: how did dragons hatch dragon eggs in the wild before they were "tamed" by the Valyrians?)

[jet199]

Random thought:

Some of the more inbred noble families in Scotland used to see dwarf children as proof that their ancestors married fairies or club-footed children as proof that they were descended from mermaids or selkies. These things were, of course, really a sign that they should have stopped marrying their cousins. It may be that valyrian inbreeding culture came first and because they started to miscarry dragon-like babies they thought they must have a blood connection with wild dragons and attempted taming them with magic. For this to work I guess the targ madness would have started by then as well.

[Arataniello]

[mod]

When replying to long (and excellent!) posts, it really is not necessary to quote the entire post to which you are replying. Good board etiquette improves the board for all users! Quote particular points to which you are responding directly.

Thank you. Carry on.

[/mod]

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Its possible after the events of Summerhall Jaeherys the second may have done something with the rest of the eggs to prevent any one from trying something that drastic again.

That's certainly an interesting possibility. It's also possible the egg cache had been moved to Summerhall for whatever they were trying to do there and were lost. I've been involved in speculative discussions that Rhaegar's melancholic obsession with Summerhall may have actual been a cover for his attempt to recover missing eggs.

I certainly don't recall any mention of Aerys or Rhaegar or Rhaegar's kids etc. having an egg in their cradle. I would guess Egg's children were the last to do it, other than Dany's eggs we haven't seen any make an appearance, with the possible exception of the one Euron probably gave to the HoBaW.

It's possible the last few generations of House Targaryen had no dragon eggs at all, though I still think it likely enough Dany's came via Varys.

Just curious, is there anything to indicate they didn't other than lack of information? If it was connected to Summerhall, I'd think that Aerys' children would have been the first to not get eggs. There doesn't seem to be any other reason for believing they would have stopped what appears to be a longstanding family tradition. If eggs were lost at Summerhall, or Jahaerys simply decided to put an end to the practice to protect his children, that would still potentially leave the eggs of the older Targs (Jahaerys, Aerys and Rhaella)that could have been preserved in KL or at DS.

[History of Westeros]

That's certainly an interesting possibility. It's also possible the egg cache had been moved to Summerhall for whatever they were trying to do there and were lost. I've been involved in speculative discussions that Rhaegar's melancholic obsession with Summerhall may have actual been a cover for his attempt to recover missing eggs.

Just curious, is there anything to indicate they didn't other than lack of information? If it was connected to Summerhall, I'd think that Aerys' children would have been the first to not get eggs. There doesn't seem to be any other reason for believing they would have stopped what appears to be a longstanding family tradition. If eggs were lost at Summerhall, or Jahaerys simply decided to put an end to the practice to protect his children, that would still potentially leave the eggs of the older Targs (Jahaerys, Aerys and Rhaella)that could have been preserved in KL or at DS.

Yes, I'm basing that purely on the lack of mention. There have been a ton of opportunities for those eggs to be mentioned. They have huge symbolic value. Consider that some dude named Quickfinger was caught stealing dragon eggs during the 1st BF rebellion. We hear about Aegon III bringing mages over to hatch his, and Summerhall, but not a peep with regards to Rhaegar, Aerys II, etc. Viserys never mentions it to Dany either, which is a huge omission as well. Viserys was older than Aegon but younger than Rhaenys so he'd basically be the 2nd of his generation to get an egg, if there were any. If Rhaenys had one perhaps it was taken by Varys during the sack, but there's just no way Viserys would flee to Dragonstone without his.

There are so many omissions that it becomes compelling (combined with the notion that many were likely destroyed at Summerhall). The idea that not all were lost at Summerhall is an assumption, we need to remember. It's a reasonable assumption but perhaps it's also wrong.

We should consider the possibility that the Targs had no eggs after Summerhall, or at some point not too long after.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Yes, I'm basing that purely on the lack of mention. There have been a ton of opportunities for those eggs to be mentioned. We hear about Aegon III bringing mages over to hatch his, and Summerhall, but not a peep with regards to Rhaegar, Aerys II, etc. Viserys never mentions it to Dany either, which is a huge omission as well.

There are so many omissions that it becomes compelling.

Ah, okay then.

To be honest, the only lack of mention that really bothers me is Viserys. I agree it's pretty clear he never had one and perhaps we could extend that to Rhaegar since they're the same generation. IMO, we dont' have enough to go by one way or the other for Aerys and Rhaella who after all were born before Summerhall. Because if the practice stopped you have to consider the "why?" and Queen_Alysanne's idea about Summerhall seems pretty logical.

[Ygrain]

Ah, okay then.

To be honest, the only lack of mention that really bothers me is Viserys. I agree it's pretty clear he never had one and perhaps we could extend that to Rhaegar since they're the same generation. IMO, we dont' have enough to go by one way or the other for Aerys and Rhaella who after all were born before Summerhall. Because if the practice stopped you have to consider the "why?" and Queen_Alysanne's idea about Summerhall seems pretty logical.

Or they're buried under the ruins and all those emo trips to Summerhall were just a ruse to allow Rhaegar dig for the eggs :P

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Ah, okay then.

To be honest, the only lack of mention that really bothers me is Viserys. I agree it's pretty clear he never had one and perhaps we could extend that to Rhaegar since they're the same generation. IMO, we dont' have enough to go by one way or the other for Aerys and Rhaella who after all were born before Summerhall. Because if the practice stopped you have to consider the "why?" and Queen_Alysanne's idea about Summerhall seems pretty logical.

Yea and especially when, he is the one that said Targaryens are either mad or great shows that he wasn't afraid to condemn his own house.