*BOOM* Varys is working for... (new theory, EXPLAINS IT ALL, Mystery Solved!)

[FrozenFire3]

Or maybe he is the very same infant son of Aerion the Monstrous/Brightflame who was passed over by the Great Council in favour of Aegon V/Egg.

In aCoK Mormont's reference to Aerion's infant son is just a few pages before Tyrion's pivotal question: "Who cut you, Varys? When and why? Who are you, truly?"

Mormont's detailed account, Varys' mysterious past, the use of the italic type in Tyrion's words... I've always felt there was a sort of pattern.

Let's indulge for a moment in the above crackpotting. Is Varys a Targaryen loyalist? Or he is rather a 'Aerion's line' loyalist? As a matter of fact he might have been the legitimate heir to the IT if not for the Great Council's deliberation. Mekar's eldest son, Daeron, died in fact with no male issue and Aerion was Maekar's second son. In this scenario I wonder about Varys' feelings towards the heirs/descendants of Aegon V... I also wonder about his tragic story. If true, who did the blood magic ritual? Why? Did they have a personal agenda or was there also an instigator? Is it possible someone cut Varys to cut once and for all Aerion's line?

Varys' cryptic agenda and motivations have much more to do with lack of information about his past than anything. He'll make sense sooner or later. And I've the feeling his sense will be more about Fire than... Ice.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

I think the question still remains, if Varys is a blackfyre and he really wants aegon, then why is his plan so shitty?

Cos he's overrated?

[NitzanLeo]

Knowing Varys was born and raised in Essos, I do believe it is a bit unlikely that he'd be an actual Targ loyalist, and more likely he is a Blackfyre loyalist. It makes more sense to me. What makes no sense to me is for Martin to suddenly push one character who is so imbued in one of the two main storylines (Long Night and Game of Thrones) into the other without any actuall hint about it. It sounds so ridiculous to me to even think Varys has anything to do with the Others. He has heard about what's happening at the Wall at least once, and never have we even been given a hint about his reaction to the news. And if he really was working at weakening Westeros for the Long Night, I think he would've done a bit of a better job of it. He would've probably stopped the Red Wedding, having it end one war with much less casualties than it should've had. It makes absolutely no sense for him to work for the Others.

I also don't think he had Aegon on a boat for 16 years (not fifteen, sixteen). I'm quite sure Aegon lived somewhere else for many years before. And even though there are many Grey Men in the river to Volantis, I highly doubt that he would've taken that road if he didn't have to.

[The Rise of Dorne]

1. How exactly is Varys' plan shitty? He's causing unrest in Westeros to discredit the ruling dynasty so people will accept the alternative he has stashed away (fAegon) more easily. The Dothraki are only part of the plan in order to cause unrest, they are not supposed to take over. Robert would have two choices: either hiding in his castles, discrediting him as a weak and incompetent king. Or facing the Dothraki on the battlefield, which would be quite risky, because it plays into the Dothraki's strengths. As for Aegon's safety: Yes, there are pirates on that shore. But usually, pirates don't kill people, they rob them. If you give them your goods, you're fine. And Illyrio would always be able to buy fAegon from slavery. Or to turn the question around: Given the assumption that Varys is a Blackfyre loyalist, what else would you propose?

2. As I said in 1., the Dothraki are not central to Varys' plan. They are one possible way of causing unrest in Westeros to discredit the current rulers so people will more easily swallow fAegon as their saviour.

3. Is really magic needed to stop the Others? Where did you get that idea? There hasn't been much magic for 150 years, a perfect time frame for the Others to attack, don't you agree? Instead they waited until magic got stronger to attack? That doesn't make sense - unless the Others themselves profit from heightened magic levels. Which would mean that no magic would be better for fighting them. And indeed, I don't see how magic has ever been truly beneficial in this series.

4. The general problem with your crackpot theory (no offense meant, I've had my share of those over the years, too) is that there's no established connection between Varys and the Others whatsoever, and your few weak links are even built on massive speculation (like magic being needed to defeat the Others).

1. This relies on Aegon living, again, Aegon isn't in a very secure location. They could have kept him in Illyrio's palace. They could have bought him a house in Braavos and hired a faceless man to guard him. The whole rebellion hinges on his safety after all. What are the odds of the Dothraki making it across the narrow sea in the first place? Low, very low.

I can't take that Varys is a Blackfyre loyalist as a given. Why would he be a blackfyre loyalist? Why wouldn't he just change sides? You know to a side with actual resources. If he's working for the Others, I don't think he's an "Other loyalist" just that Varys thinks the Others have an overwhelming force and will win anyway, so he's trying to get on the winning side.

2. Fine, but Dothraki are a terrible way of causing unrest, because they're on the other side of the world.

3. Well the Wall is magic, that stops the others. Lightbringer was magic, that was used to stop the Others. And dragons are magic, and they'd be used to stop the Others.

You're assuming the Others can attack at will. Its been 8,000 years whats plus or minus 150 years to call your banners and get ready when you've been waiting 8,000 and have to get around a magic wall anyway? They have to have means & opportunity to invade. They've had opportunity, but presumably not means, since they didn't attack.

4. Oh of course. There's no link. Its merely a process of elimination. I don't see any link between Varys and Blackfyres either though...

[The Rise of Dorne]

Knowing Varys was born and raised in Essos, I do believe it is a bit unlikely that he'd be an actual Targ loyalist, and more likely he is a Blackfyre loyalist. It makes more sense to me. What makes no sense to me is for Martin to suddenly push one character who is so imbued in one of the two main storylines (Long Night and Game of Thrones) into the other without any actuall hint about it. It sounds so ridiculous to me to even think Varys has anything to do with the Others. He has heard about what's happening at the Wall at least once, and never have we even been given a hint about his reaction to the news. And if he really was working at weakening Westeros for the Long Night, I think he would've done a bit of a better job of it. He would've probably stopped the Red Wedding, having it end one war with much less casualties than it should've had. It makes absolutely no sense for him to work for the Others.

I also don't think he had Aegon on a boat for 16 years (not fifteen, sixteen). I'm quite sure Aegon lived somewhere else for many years before. And even though there are many Grey Men in the river to Volantis, I highly doubt that he would've taken that road if he didn't have to.

I dunno. If Varys is clearing the field for the Others, then he really is causing mayhem because Aegon is just a faint and he knows Aegon and Dany are still out there even as Tywin is celebrating. There's no reason to think Varys knew about the red wedding, but if he did, it weakened the North, who are the only ones likely to reinforce the night's watch.

It also makes more sense as why Varys is stock piling Royals from every house, not just Targaryens.

And who said there were two main story lines? maybe there's only one story line? I think it would show that the two have been one all along. it makes the Game of Throne so much more relevant (really, it would make the Other more relevant since the Game of Thrones is the interesting part)

[The Rise of Dorne]

Knowing Varys was born and raised in Essos,

P.S. we don't know Varys was born and raised in Essos. You have to take his word for it.

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

"You are more than a juggler, old friend. You are a true sorcerer. All I ask is that you work your magic awhile longer." They started down the hall in the direction Arya had come, past the room with the monsters.

"What I can do, I will," the one with the torch said softly. "I must have gold, and another fifty birds."

She let them get a long way ahead, then went creeping after them. Quiet as a shadow.

"So many?" The voices were fainter as the light dwindled ahead of her. "The ones you need are hard to find... so young, to know their letters... perhaps older... not die so easy..."

"No. The younger are safer... treat them gently if they kept their tongues the risk..."

I just wanted to come back to this for a moment... Help me understand what he is saying.. Are they saying that the young ones don't die as easily? Also, that they remove their tongues?

And slighly off topic, don't you find it odd that Ilyrio describes Varys as both a wizard (earlier in the paragraph), and a sorcerer in this passage, working his "magic"? Knowing what we do about how much Varys supposedly hates magic and sorcery, wouldn't he be annoyed by this description from his long-time friend, Illyrio? He was supposedly cut, but now he's the one doing the cutting? Could it be that Varys was the sorcerer in his description to Tyrion calling the voice from the flames and he's no eunich at all? Sorry for getting ahead of myself here..

[Howling Mad]

Varys doesn't make any sense. Based on his actions, no coherent plan can be discerned.

Illyrio expected Dany to die. Varys couldn't have known Dany's dragon eggs would hatch.

No one expected the dragon eggs to hatch. The eggs were intended to be sold off to fund the ships needed for the Dothraki invasion.

[The Rise of Dorne]

it seems like he's saying 'so young, to know their letters...perhaps older [children, but they would] not die so easy" I think they do cut their tongues out.

i like that off topic theory.

[The Rise of Dorne]

No one expected the dragon eggs to hatch. The eggs were intended to be sold off to fund the ships needed for the Dothraki invasion.

oh i don't buy that. Illyrio has a ton of ships and ton of money. Why give Dany the eggs for her to sell to get ships? Not that I think they knew the eggs would hatch. But the Eggs can't have been a secret war chest. There's just way too many better ways to do that.

[David C. Hunter]

IMO, Varys is working with the Citadel. Just my two cents

[Faceless Bran]

I'll tell ya this, if he's not in league with the faceless men/iron bank i'll eat my hat.

[locke and key]

I think that varys wanted to put the easily manipulated viserys on the throne with the help of dothraki then reveal aegon and persuade him that because aegon was further ahead in the line of succession he should give it up.

he then planned to do the same with dany once viserys was dead.

however, now aegon has decided to attack he's supporting him

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Or maybe he is the very same infant son of Aerion the Monstrous/Brightflame who was passed over by the Great Council in favour of Aegon V/Egg.

In aCoK Mormont's reference to Aerion's infant son is just a few pages before Tyrion's pivotal question: "Who cut you, Varys? When and why? Who are you, truly?"

Mormont's detailed account, Varys' mysterious past, the use of the italic type in Tyrion's words... I've always felt there was a sort of pattern.

Let's indulge for a moment in the above crackpotting. Is Varys a Targaryen loyalist? Or he is rather a 'Aerion's line' loyalist? As a matter of fact he might have been the legitimate heir to the IT if not for the Great Council's deliberation.

Just out of curiosity, is Varys' age mentioned or guessed at anywhere? I find this an intriguing theory, but he'd have to be near 70 as Maekar died in 233.

[Joshua the Frey Slayer]

When varys kills kevan at the end of adwd he tells kevan that he intends to put aegon on the throne. What is the point of lying to a dead man?

[The Rise of Dorne]

what's the point of talking to a dead man at all?

[The guy from the Vale]

Just out of curiosity, is Varys' age mentioned or guessed at anywhere? I find this an intriguing theory, but he'd have to be near 70 as Maekar died in 233.

No, it's not. However, Varys is at least in his mid-forties, considering he was Master of Whisperers for Aerys after Duskendale, which happened 276 AL... and considering he had already made a name for himself in Essos by that time, he must at least have been in his early 20s, and more likely in his thirties or so.

I don't think he would be Aerion's son. His grandson, though, is a distinct possibility. Even if I think he's a Blackfyre, that one makes some sense.

[RhaenysBee]

I think it's lame. This theory. Sorry.

I am pretty sure Varys was pretty sure that a true Targaryen could hatch the dragon eggs. That's just something like Varys. And I'm also pretty sure Varys was pretty sure the Dothraki could be convinced to sail. You see they were. Only, Drogo who was the one running the project died and his successors didn't see the importance of pleasing Drogo's wife, like Drogo did. What Varys couldn't have known was Drogo dying and Viserys dying. And Daenerys going crazy about freeing slaves.

Seeing the Great Other the Great Ice thing of A Song of Ice and Fire in the fire irks me a little too.

As for Aegon, to put him into any plan Varys might have had, we would need to be sure he is real, first of all.

[The Rise of Dorne]

OK. Why would Varys give three dragons eggs that he expects to hatch, to a people and then send them half way across world where Varys has no control over them. And don't say Jorah, cause Jorah just proves how little control Varys does have.

OK. Even if the Dothraki are convinced to sail, you've still got to get them to Westeros successfully. And they're always fighting each other so there's a decent chance of Drogo dying or being attacked and losing or being pinned down in a war or going of on a campaign to sack Qarth. There a million things that can go wrong. Its why the Mongols could invade poland successfully but repeatedly failed to take Japan, despite it being much closer.

But that's precisely the point Dany and Visery were off in the wilderness anything could happen to them. They could get any crazy idea in their head and go off the deep end with three dragons. Anyone could decide to kill them and take the Dragons. Drogo could decide to. Volantis could send army to take them, to reclaim their Valyrian heritage. Why not jut lock Dany in a room with the freaking eggs, if you already think she can hatch them? There's 80,000 ways to screw the pooch, and one way for this thing to actually work. Its an utterly horrible plan. It would be like Littlefinger sending Sansa and Robert Arryn to Iron Islands to marry Euron and expecting it to get him a fleet.

Dragon glass is frozen fire.

Why does he need to be real? It doesn't change the plan if he's fake. I'm sure he is fake. What difference does it make. It like Fake Arya marrying Ramsay, he doesn't give a fuck.

[JonNonRegis]

Varys doesn't make any sense. Based on his actions, no coherent plan can be discerned.

A strange remark.

He is a schemer, a chessplayer, but his goal is what he claims it is: peace, or the greater good, by engineering what the US founding fathers referred to as "a more perfect nation." He has little/no personal ambition.

He orchestrated the Aegon sequence because he believes the Targaryens are the best means toward that end. He is not a Targaryen or Blackfyre supporter per se.

He killed Pycelle for the same reason. He trots it out; we don't have to wonder about it.

From the standpoint of Mopatis and Varys, all the Targs -- Dany, Viserys, and Aegon -- are backup strategies for each other. Supporting all of them, which we have certainly seen Mopatis and Varys do, increases the odds of a Targ sitting the Iron Throne eventually.

I think Varys is wrong -- the best means toward a peaceful Westeros is not the Targaryens -- but I don't question his honesty on this point and indeed am not sure he has ever once lied in the books.

I am amused by those who think he must necessarily be a secret Targ, secret Blackfyre, or on the "team" of the Targs or Blackfyres.

(These, in my experience, are the same team-happy people who think Ice and Fire are sentient forces who have picked players for their teams in a cosmic game of dodgeball-to-the-death, and usually also think Dany is on Team Fire and Jon is on Team Ice. I am not on Team Them.)