The "Bittersweet" Ending

[GoldenFleece]

To be honest I am really happy that GRRM said it was going to be bittersweet. I don't actually like fantasy that much, I find most of it cliché, but these books read more like a historical medieval fiction than fantasy and I love that. In GoT, the Stark family are the typical cliché fantasy family, more at home with King Arthur and his knights than the violence and treachery of the medieval period - and boy are they put through the mill for it - Fantasy honourable good guys would not live in a medieval world. Ned's fantasy like honour kills him, Robb's fantasy like honour kills him. Now you have Sansa trying to learn the game, Arya - a borderline sociopathic assassin, Bran working with Bloodraven - who's intentions could not be as good as people imagine, and gods know what little Rickon could turn out like with a bad temperament and hanging out with cannibals. Great stuff!

[SeanF]

Ramsay Bolton becomes a hero in the fight against the others, is acclaimed as King, and takes Daenerys as his Queen.

Their kingdom is mostly a heap of ash, with about nine tenths of the population killed off.

[ninewinter]

I think it wont come to a point where all Starks are dead. Theyre the main protagonist. theyre the ones who suffered most. theyre the one why we read the story.. because even if how tragic we come to a point, there are still hope for us to move on. No. I dare not think starks will be annihilated. Maybe the targs, the baratheons, the lannisters, but at least one stark, will live to reap the fruits of spring.

[mindchap]

Ramsay Bolton becomes a hero in the fight against the others, is acclaimed as King, and takes Daenerys as his Queen.

Their kingdom is mostly a heap of ash, with about nine tenths of the population killed off.

Less mouths to feed the next time winter comes a knockin.

[SeanF]

I think it wont come to a point where all Starks are dead. Theyre the main protagonist. theyre the ones who suffered most. theyre the one why we read the story.. because even if how tragic we come to a point, there are still hope for us to move on. No. I dare not think starks will be annihilated. Maybe the targs, the baratheons, the lannisters, but at least one stark, will live to reap the fruits of spring.

But, the surviving Stark will be married to a weirwood tree, or permanently paralysed, or insane, or rendered infertile.

[Timothy Quentin Cray]

But, the surviving Stark will be married to a weirwood tree, or permanently paralysed, or insane, or rendered infertile.

Or evil? I'm new to the forum! Bran is heading down a bit of a strange path and Arya has found a vocation that facilitates her hobby of cutting people, perhaps Rickon will be same angry little lad he was in GoT and CoK but with a bit more of an appetite.

[chrisdaw]

I'll take Bran sacrificing Jon to save life on Westeros.

[COYStars]

Bran is one character for whom I can see no future once the pieces have all fallen into place.

How bitter does it need to be?

[Fetch me a block]

To be honest I am really happy that GRRM said it was going to be bittersweet. I don't actually like fantasy that much, I find most of it cliché, but these books read more like a historical medieval fiction than fantasy and I love that. In GoT, the Stark family are the typical cliché fantasy family, more at home with King Arthur and his knights than the violence and treachery of the medieval period - and boy are they put through the mill for it - Fantasy honourable good guys would not live in a medieval world. Ned's fantasy like honour kills him, Robb's fantasy like honour kills him. Now you have Sansa trying to learn the game, Arya - a borderline sociopathic assassin, Bran working with Bloodraven - who's intentions could not be as good as people imagine, and gods know what little Rickon could turn out like with a bad temperament and hanging out with cannibals. Great stuff!

And you would know that how? Oh yes, I forgot you were 800 years old.

[GoldenFleece]

And you would know that how? Oh yes, I forgot you were 800 years old.

Or I read history books about that period.

[Ser Uncle P]

Bittersweet ending? Jon Snow is AAR and defeats the Others with the NW (lightbringer).

The Wall and Watch is now redundant so King in the North Ramsey hangs all the crows for their former crimes!

[Azor Ahoy!]

I'm not so sure about the 'snow blowing over the graveyard' being an actual spoiler.

Maybe it's just me hoping that's not the ending, but GRRM is years away from finishing ADOS and even then it will have to go through revisions and editing so I don't think that will be the actual ending.

[Ice Stark]

Why does everyone thinks the Starks will die? I think we have seen enough dead Starks already and I don't think GRRM will kill the whole " beloved" family

On the other hand, I see westerling coming with baby Robb to take up the king in the north again. This time with Rickon as the King Regent until he is old enough to rule.

Ps. This is a wish not a thought

[Timothy Quentin Cray]

If all of the Starks die I will give my copies of the books to the flames. GRRM would just be a massive dick if he did that, it would be bang out of order. He's already gone too fucking far with the RW, but hopefully he'll give equal damage to the Lannisters.

Really? I've always quite 'enjoyed' GRRM building up these fantastic characters, making me creating them in my mind, relate to them and befriend them before he shows their demise and gruesome degrading death. His avoidance of the typical fantasy cliché has been one of the reasons why I've found reading the book to be such an emotional experience and why I've found this forum to debate which one of my mates he's likely to kill next!

Although I do wonder at what point killing everyone and opting for the most unsatisfactory ending to the series would become predictable and almost clichéd in itself?

[Fetch me a block]

Or I read history books about that period.

We've all read history books about that period. I consider Edward IV, Peter Nevsky, Edward III etc. relatively nice and they did fine

[Kittykatknits]

This part sounds just as I imagine Stannis to be king.

Anyways, I think the most important spoiler GRRM gives about the ending is the "snow blowing over graveyard" part.

If you look at the whole quote from GRRM here, it's clear he is joking about this bit. It's not a spoiler.

I hope it is at least not some sort of an open ending. What I really wish for is closure. When the last book gets published even I who started reading after viewing the fist season of GOT will have waited for quite a long time for the ending, so I really hope that GRRM gives the story proper closure.

I wouldn't worry about this possibility overly much. Martin has come out to criticize the endings for both Lost and BSG for exactly this problem. He felt the shows didn't wrap up storylines or solve its mysteries. In the case of Lost, it led to some minor public feuding with the producers of the show. Martin has clearly expressed he does not wish to do the same.

To be honest I am really happy that GRRM said it was going to be bittersweet. I don't actually like fantasy that much, I find most of it cliché, but these books read more like a historical medieval fiction than fantasy and I love that. In GoT, the Stark family are the typical cliché fantasy family, more at home with King Arthur and his knights than the violence and treachery of the medieval period - and boy are they put through the mill for it - Fantasy honourable good guys would not live in a medieval world. Ned's fantasy like honour kills him, Robb's fantasy like honour kills him. Now you have Sansa trying to learn the game, Arya - a borderline sociopathic assassin, Bran working with Bloodraven - who's intentions could not be as good as people imagine, and gods know what little Rickon could turn out like with a bad temperament and hanging out with cannibals. Great stuff!

I wouldn't be so quick to attach this label to the Starks. Ned, at the beginning of the series, makes it clear that the Starks were a very harsh people. Later in a Davos chapter, we learn Starks had the entrails of slavers hung from trees. They have also practiced human sacrifice. Yeah, that doesn't fit in well with King Arthur all that well.

Also, not sure why everyone things the ending will be that depressing. It's not a tragedy and this isn't a work of nihilism. The entire series has been bitter so far, from the death of Ned all the way up to Jon's assassination attempt. We've had characters lose limbs, turn in to zombies, be forcible married, turned in to child killers, subject to sexual violence, become slaves, and I could go on and on for awhile. There will be some sweet in the end, I am sure. But, any sort of HEA is out of the picture at this point I'd say.

[Gannicus]

With all that's happened how can the ending be entirely sweet, but I think he'll leave us feeling okay. Some of our original and favorite POVs might not live happily ever after Arya, Tyrion, Dany, or even Jon, but their ends will be fitting and foreshadowed. Overall I think we'll be happyish in the end.

- I think we'll have a Stark in Winterfell,

- He/She might not be our favorite but we'll be comfortable with the person on the throne.

- I don't think any of our favorite families will go extinct.

- The bad guys will get killed.

- We'll see at least one relationship blossom in the wake of all the destruction.

[FooFighterDDS]

As others have noted, I think GRRM means don't expect "and they lived happily ever after".

I expect something similar to:

1. A Stark Lord/Lady in Winterfell

2. The defeat of the Others

3. Jon and Dany defeat the Others but don't end up together

4. Bran still crippled and with the COTF but able to see and warg everything

5. Jon realizing he can be King but choosing the Black

I have faith in GRRM. The story thus far has been great. I'm sure he has plenty of gut turning and fist pumping events planned.

[JMJ]

I don't think the entire Stark line will be extinct. There will be a Stark in Winterfell. Bran will have become one with the Weirnet. His is the Dream of Spring.

[Gurkhal]

You would take it much better than most fans would then.

Well, I've grown a pretty thick skin over the years and as much as I love the books they are at the end of the day a fictional story.

If all of the Starks die I will give my copies of the books to the flames. GRRM would just be a massive dick if he did that, it would be bang out of order. He's already gone too fucking far with the RW, but hopefully he'll give equal damage to the Lannisters.

Oh, and Gurkhal, you are a massive tool.

English is not my native language so I don't have a clue what "massive tool" means but I take it that you were trying to say something cool but I'm afraid I can't understand it.