Could Cersei have always had it in for the Starks?

[A Man Has Said]

Cersei is a shit mother. Joffrey was the only one she really paid attention to and look how he turned out. She is horrible to Tommen, trying to make him more like Joffrey. I'll just say that again shall I? She actively tries to make Tommen more like Joffrey. Tommen and Myrcella benefitted from the fact that Joffrey was the focus of Cersei's attention.

:agree: Totally. Psycho beeyotch.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I think that if Cersei or the Lannisters in general have any prior animosity towards the Starks it would be related to Ned's views of Lannister actions in Robert's Rebellion. She would have absorbed some of Jaime's feelings that Ned was being pompous and judgmental when he saw Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne after having killed Aerys. She would undoubtedly have known of Ned's reaction to Tywin having Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon murdered. I'll bet she's heard of that from both Tywin's and Robert's points of view. And then there's the Sack of King's Landing.

The reality is, the Lannisters have a lot of blood on their hands and a lot to feel guilty about if they only had the conscience to recognize it. Mostly, they don't like the fact that there is someone who in however small a way does recognize it and reminds them of it. They want to act in an arrogant tyrannical manner, but the seven gods forbid that anyone criticize them for it. The Starks are a constant reminder to them of how a Great House should act, and we know this through Jaime's thoughts and actions. He wanted to be someone like Barristan Selmy or Ser Arthur Dayne, and ended up being like the Laughing Knight.

I agree, but you mean the Smiling Knight.

[Faint]

There is no evidence that Cersei has ever held particular animus towards the North. I think it fair to say she never liked the other ruling families of Westeros besides her own, but the Starks do not stand out in that sense, and probably rank behind the Baratheons, Martells and the Tyrells, just to start with.

[Pod The Impaler]

Hello all--new poster, lurked for awhile searching for this topic before posting (didn't find it, so if it's a repeat, sorry.)

I'd been re-reading the books, and had gotten to Kevan Lannister's quote about Lyanna Stark being beautiful, but Cersei being more so. Now, obviously, Kevan's biased, but it got me to thinking--for all of Cersei's famed beauty, she essentially 'lost out' to Lyanna Stark twice. Cersei was all but promised by her family that she'd be the bride of Rhaegar--and that didn't happen. But then Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna--whether she was willing or not seems up for dispute, but the singers turned it into a romantic love story of how Rhaegar and Robert went to war for love of Lyanna. Cersei did eventually marry the king--Robert--but it was always made painfully obvious to her that Robert was still in love with Lyanna, and not with Cersei (so again, Cersei 'loses' to Lyanna).

Given that Cersei isn't the most stable of personalities in the first place, getting emotionally bitch-slapped with the realization that she meant nothing at all to Rhaegar (the King who should have been) and very little to Robert (the King who was), I'd think this would play further into unhinging her a bit, maybe congealing into a grudge against the Stark family in general--she obviously can't take her anger out on Lyanna, who is now dead, so her hatred transfers to the remaining family members.

Bizarrely enough, thinking about this almost made me feel sorry for Cersei--being 'rejected' like this twice, and over the same woman both times, would really have to be a blow to her self-esteeem.

The OP certainly fits what I have thought. She does seem to hate the Starks more than her baseline hatred of everyone else.

[A Man Has Said]

I agree, but you mean the Smiling Knight.

Thanks. I'll fix that.

[Lord Dolorous Edd]

Cersei didnt give half a groat about the starks until bran saw her with her brother in their ULTIMATE SECRET that everybody knows yet nobody cares about at this point

[The Fallen]

` Cersei is horrible. She was horrible as a child. She was horrible as a wife. She was horrible as a mother. She was horrible as a human being.

Having said that, I don't think she had any more hate for the Starks than anyone else. She didn't hate Ned, she feared him. She also didn't hate the other Starks anymore than she hated everyone else.

[Sansa_Stark]

1. I can say alot of things about Qyburn's work but I don't go all emotional over things to prove something.

2. She tried to take power herself rather than let various different men decide her fate for her?

3. Indeed it was. I don't argue with that. Cersei isn't into advancing woman as a group, just herself.

That is very true. However the argument put forward was that she was cheating even before they were married, which would've been impossible.

2. Her power is derived from Joffrey. Therefore she is still being reliant on a man for power. Which means she didn't try to change the game, only the players.

[Toxspecific]

Well, if the quote is from the TV show or whatever, doesn't matter, my bad though, much since if you saying that she ignored Tommen and Myrcella and focused on Joffrey, well the ones she ignored turned out nice and the one she focused on turned out a psycho. Thanks for proving my point that her mothering was absolutely horrible.

I'm sorry for everything under the sun isn't debatable; this is one of those things that are fact. Joffrey was a crazy asshole and Cersei made him like that.

[Arya kiddin']

` Cersei is horrible. She was horrible as a child. She was horrible as a wife. She was horrible as a mother. She was horrible as a human being.

Having said that, I don't think she had any more hate for the Starks than anyone else. She didn't hate Ned, she feared him. She also didn't hate the other Starks anymore than she hated everyone else.

Such fierce summary. I agree though.

[Toxspecific]

I really think people only defend Cersei just for the sake of being that contrary opinion holder :P

[Minsc]

Her feelings towards the Starks probably helped with the fact that she was probably aware that Ned hated her father and brother, moreover how he was opposed to the decision of her becoming queen in the first place.

[Arya kiddin']

I really think people only defend Cersei just for the sake of being that contrary opinion holder :P

Quite the point. I mean if Cersei isn't pure evil, then what is?

[Toxspecific]

She just seems evil on a very basic, core level. Like you rip her open and toss aside 50 layers of evil just to come to more evil, and then nothing.

[zamieo]

I really think people only defend Cersei just for the sake of being that contrary opinion holder :P

People defend the Freys, people are weirdos :worried:

[Theda Baratheon]

Another Cersei bashing thread? /yawn.

It's an interesting point, but I don't particularly think Cersei had any personal resentment towards the Starks.

[Sansa_Stark]

Another Cersei bashing thread? /yawn.

It's an interesting point, but I don't particularly think Cersei had any personal resentment towards the Starks.

maybe because i have mental issues but i never get bored of cersei/jaime bashing. it takes up like half my points on this board,

[Toxspecific]

Jaime, I like. Cersei, I do not like. She's just done too little good. If any at all.

[username 1]

I always got the feeling that there is animosity between House Stark & House Lannister that goes beyond anything we have seen. The way that the northmen talk about the Lannisters suggests that untrustworthiness and Lannister are synonymous in The North. Just a feeling btw, no substantial evidence.

No you're not alone in feeling this; I also sense some underlying enmity between both houses which transcends recent events.

[Tynned Lannistark]

I did not get the feeling Cersei had anything in particular against the Starks before Ned becoming hand. She would be just fine with them staying in the north sitting their frozen asses in the snow and being grim :)

Her only worry was of Ned being an honorable guy and Robert considering him a close friend. She thought this would undermine the Lannister grab of Robert. Which is also what Ned thought, and part of why he agreed to take the job (and they were both right).

As for her being reject by Robert for Lyanna, at first it seems that she was happy to marry Robert and got offended and disappointed understanding he does not want her. But later on, its pretty clear she always saw him as an idiot and was not into him in anyway. She always wanted Rhaegar (perhaps she didn't love him as well , she just liked the position of princesses).

Robert saying Lyanna's name was just an insult to her pride , not something that really offended her feelings.

As for the Lannister having some deep grudge against the Starks, I would say its quite the opposite. Its Ned who dislikes the Lannisters.

Cersei, Tyrion and even Tywin doesn't seem to care much about Ned. Jaime resents Ned for being somewhat condescending towards him , but it is less personal against Ned and more because he just represents how society has treated Jaime.