Could Cersei have always had it in for the Starks?

[Toxspecific]

People think I'm defending Robert? Wat.

Robert was a wayward individual and a bad husband but his taste in women had some hope considering he hated Cersei. And for good reason other than her arrogance and attitude. She was the worse of the two evils.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I don't think Cersei was a bad mother, I mean look at Myrcella.

I think her male children just lacked father figures

[The Wolves]

Cersei wasn't forced to marry Robert, yes it was arranged but she didn't go into that marriage unhappy until Robert whispered Lyanna.

[Toxspecific]

I don't think Cersei was a bad mother, I mean look at Myrcella.

I think her male children just lacked father figures

That's ridiculous. Cersei told her children stuff like 'anyone who isn't us, is an enemy'. And it is more than clear that she is the one who made Joffrey a monster seeing as Robert didn't fiddle in his grooming much. Cersei made him an insane arrogant %$^%$^ and this is known by lots of people.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Robert is just a bad parent as Cersei is. He neglected his children to the point that Joffrey became what he was. I agree that Cersei is batshit crazy, but to blame all her marriage faults in her is just plain stupid. If anything, Robert made little to no effort to make it work. Catelyn and Ned worked because both made an effort to it, Catelyn even more than Ned, having to see his bastard child everyday. But in their case, Cersei and Robert simply weren't interested in their marriage enough for it. Robert just raped her and humiliated her, hit her (All in AGOT), and she slept with her brother the entire marriage Thinking about it, I don't condemn her for sleeping with Jaime. She's obviously, at least when it comes to their marriage, the lesser of two evils.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

That's ridiculous. Cersei told her children stuff like 'anyone who isn't us, is an enemy'. And it is more than clear that she is the one who made Joffrey a monster seeing as Robert didn't fiddle in his grooming much. Cersei made him an insane arrogant %$^%$^ and this is known by lots of people.

I agree I remember reading that Cersei basically ignored the other children because she focused most of her attention on Joffrey and we all see how that turned out.

[bbstark]

I don't think Cersei was a bad mother, I mean look at Myrcella.

I think her male children just lacked father figures

well her female child lacked a father figure as well, so that's not a terribly solid line of defense.

*Maybe* Joffrey would have turned out a more 'reigned in' psychopath had he been guided by an exemplary male role model, someone of Randyll Tarly's flavor of psycho perhaps? I'd be willing to believe that. However I still think he'd have little regard for life.

If we're going to base Cersei's baseline of morality by her murder of her childhood friend, I think Joffrey's incident with the pregnant cat is a good indicator of future mentall issues. All in all Joff never stood much of a chance at becoming an actually decent human.

Regarding the cheating: they both cheated after the marriage. During the betrothal? Well I don't really buy that tbh. It doesn't appear like that's how it works in Westeros. Look at Arianne; being the heir to Dorne makes her a highly desired wife, and her sex life prior to any marriage seems to come with a get-out-of jail free card, so long she doesn't get pregnant. In other words, sex before marriage (with other partners) is not encouraged, but you can get away with it. After the marriage? Well women run the risk of placing false heirs in line of succession, so that's the chief reason it's considered forbidden. Though while Robert's cheating is obviously seen in a different light, Cersei has the exact same reason to feel sore about it as he does: the bastard children might try to put *her* trueborns out of the way.

That said, I do feel sorry for Cersei, but not because she was rejected by two men in favor of the same woman (lyanna). Strangely enough that happens to all of us. (rejection, it sucks...umm deal with it?) It's her reaction to it, that is reprehensible, and her weaknesses that make her an interesting character. There's probably several factors that are responsible for this, though probably her nearsightedness and pride are the first to consider.

Also, if you want to argue Joff had no male role models, consider that Cersei had no female ones. While Cersei is not a nice person, (to say the least) given a role model like the QoT, perhaps she'd have learn to not blame all her blunders on the patriarchy? I sympathise to an extent with her life inhibited by the patriarchy, though most of her complaints about her lack of choice mostly also applies to men (eg. forced marriage ). I don't sympathise with her nearsighted view of her situation.

Cersei's probably the worst person whose POV we have. I find her beautifully written (And I even hold the unpopular view that the prophecy was not terrible writing),and her weaknesses are fun to analyse, but I can't seriously excuse most her actions.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

That's ridiculous. Cersei told her children stuff like 'anyone who isn't us, is an enemy'. And it is more than clear that she is the one who made Joffrey a monster seeing as Robert didn't fiddle in his grooming much. Cersei made him an insane arrogant %$^%$^ and this is known by lots of people.

That quote is from the TV show.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

That quote is from the TV show.

Yeah, all scenes that have Cersei and Joffrey, or Cersei and Tommen, are from the TV show, because she's only a POV in AFFC. The same with one of the Tv show best scenes, her conversation with Robert.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I agree I remember reading that Cersei basically ignored the other children because she focused most of her attention on Joffrey and we all see how that turned out.

She didnt ignore them, Myrcella was shipped to Dorne and Tommen was sent to Rosby, by Tyrion.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Yeah, all scenes that have Cersei and Joffrey, or Cersei and Tommen, are from the TV show, because she's only a POV in AFFC. The same with one of the Tv show best scenes, her conversation with Robert.

Even though that quote is from the TV show, its just her version of saying how dangerous KL was, just like Ned told Arya we must stick together because this is a dangerous place.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Even though Cersei played a role in Joffrey becoming a monster it is not entirely her fault. Considering this series is a Patriarchal society, a male figure is very important to raise a son.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

She didnt ignore them, Myrcella was shipped to Dorne and Tommen was sent to Rosby, by Tyrion.

Yeah, after things started to happen in KL, but before things got going (before the book starts) I remember reading she focused most of her attention on Joffrey because he was the one who would be king one day, I'm pretty sure it was a Tyrion POV but I don't have the book or page so take it with a grain of salt.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I don't think Cersei was a bad mother, I mean look at Myrcella.

I think her male children just lacked father figures

Cersei is a shit mother. Joffrey was the only one she really paid attention to and look how he turned out. She is horrible to Tommen, trying to make him more like Joffrey. I'll just say that again shall I? She actively tries to make Tommen more like Joffrey. Tommen and Myrcella benefitted from the fact that Joffrey was the focus of Cersei's attention.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Cersei is a shit mother. Joffrey was the only one she really paid attention to and look how he turned out. She is horrible to Tommen, trying to make him more like Joffrey. I'll just say that again shall I? She actively tries to make Tommen more like Joffrey. Tommen and Myrcella benefitted from the fact that Joffrey was the focus of Cersei's attention.

Joffrey becoming a monster is not entirely her fault.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Joffrey becoming a monster is not entirely her fault.

No, but a good deal of it is. Therefore, she was a shit mother.

[The Don Dadda]

Joffrey becoming a monster is not entirely her fault.

No it isn't entirely her fault obviously but she actually rues the fact that Tommen is not like Joffrey. She does not think of Joffrey as a mentally damaged person, she sees his craziness and arrogance and cruelty as positive things because she thinks that is how you are supposed to rule.

[The Frosted King]

Robert is just a bad parent as Cersei is. He neglected his children to the point that Joffrey became what he was. I agree that Cersei is batshit crazy, but to blame all her marriage faults in her is just plain stupid. If anything, Robert made little to no effort to make it work. Catelyn and Ned worked because both made an effort to it, Catelyn even more than Ned, having to see his bastard child everyday. But in their case, Cersei and Robert simply weren't interested in their marriage enough for it. Robert just raped her and humiliated her, hit her (All in AGOT), and she slept with her brother the entire marriage Thinking about it, I don't condemn her for sleeping with Jaime. She's obviously, at least when it comes to their marriage, the lesser of two evils.

Robert as king was consistently challenged, derided and outright usurped PUBLICLY by his wife. I say in 2013 he should not have slapped her, but remember that in the time period the story is based on, men were allowed and encouraged to discipline their wives if need be. Recall what Rhaegar Frey said of his upcoming marriage to the Manderly granddaughter.

And also remember that women weren't able to deny their husband his rights. Hell, they weren't even expected to enjoy sex. Encouraged to bear down and deal, but not enjoy.

Robert was a bad king, father and husband, but if i had to choose between Robert polishing the iron and Cersei, Bobby B all day everyday.

He wasn't a malicious narcissist with worrying levels of delusional self worth.

[Raining Blood Magic]

Cersei is a crazy bitch. Probably more crazy than that crazy bitch we all went to high school with. She holds many grudges from slights real or imagined.

[A Man Has Said]

I think that if Cersei or the Lannisters in general have any prior animosity towards the Starks it would be related to Ned's views of Lannister actions in Robert's Rebellion. She would have absorbed some of Jaime's feelings that Ned was being pompous and judgmental when he saw Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne after having killed Aerys. She would undoubtedly have known of Ned's reaction to Tywin having Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon murdered. I'll bet she's heard of that from both Tywin's and Robert's points of view. And then there's the Sack of King's Landing.

The reality is, the Lannisters have a lot of blood on their hands and a lot to feel guilty about if they only had the conscience to recognize it. Mostly, they don't like the fact that there is someone who in however small a way does recognize it and reminds them of it. They want to act in an arrogant tyrannical manner, but the seven gods forbid that anyone criticize them for it. The Starks are a constant reminder to them of how a Great House should act, and we know this through Jaime's thoughts and actions. He wanted to be someone like Barristan Selmy or Ser Arthur Dayne, and ended up being like the Smiling Knight.