Tywin Manderly Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 The funny things is that 3 13yo dragons without training and uncontrolled will be able to win where 3 centurys old fully trained and controlled dragons failed? In ten years time she would have ample opportunity to obtain knowledge about how to train and control her dragons. Furthermore, Aegon did not exactly fail since he conquered the most of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 They failed in Dorne. You know, the same Dorne which Dany refused the alliance... The same Dorne that bend the knee to the dragonless Robert.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 They failed in Dorne. You know, the same Dorne which Dany refused the alliance...Conquering 6 out of 7 kingdoms isn't failing, in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 In ten years time she would have ample opportunity to obtain knowledge about how to train and control her dragons. Furthermore, Aegon did not exactly fail since he conquered the most of Westeros. He didn't conquered Dorne. The same Dorne that bend the knee to the dragonless Robert.......... Dany isn't Robert. Their rule is almost the same but they are not the same. Conquering 6 out of 7 kingdoms isn't failing, in my book. In your book. For me anything else than 7 out of 7 is a failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Well they eventually brought them into the realm thru political marriage anyway, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Well they eventually brought them into the realm thru political marriage anyway, so... And they needed a marriage. But what Dany did? Or more importanly: What Doran (aka Dorne) will learn/believe that she did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 He didn't conquered Dorne. He also did not conquer the Lands beyond the Wall as well as the rest of Planetos. He is such a failure, isn't he? Dany isn't Robert. Their rule is almost the same but they are not the same. Indeed. In a decade Dany will be much better than Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 He also did not conquer the Lands beyond the Wall as well as the rest of Planetos. He is such a failure, isn't he? Indeed. In a decade Dany will be much better than Robert. For me anything else than perfect is a failure. You can look itnto it how ever you want. Will she? I can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yet she needs allies in Westeros. Without Quentyn she loses the only alliance she could hope for. Did you not read what I wrote? I quite clearly said that in ten or fifteen years (or even more) the political landscape of Westeros would be VERY different, and there would surely be a lot of potential allies for Dany - or she could just wait until there was. Quentyn was only suitable as a husband if she wanted to leave Meereen instantly. For me anything else than perfect is a failure. You can look itnto it how ever you want. Will she? I can't see it. I don't think you understand how post-unified Westeros works. If Dany defeats whoever Dorne supports, and then manages to take King's Landing, Dorne will bend the knee. Being independent isn't an option for Dorne anymore - and it certainly won't be after its army is severely weakened in the upcoming conflict. If the Martells refuse to bend the knee to Dany, I'm sure the Yronwoods would happily take their place as Lord Paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 snip She would die from old age waiting for Westeros to accept a foreigner woman with no political alliance. If she wins, if she controls the dragons, if she is alive, if if if… to many ifs. But what we know for sure and what history tells us is that Dorne never bends. Dorne didn’t bend when there were true dangers not a girl with three chicks, you prefer three 10 yo chicks? Ok, 3 10yo chicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejhawman Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Agree she should have taken Quentyn's offer. Get together a concil with the Yunkish and Volantenes and make them an offer: She will leave, if they will provide ships to carry her people. Meaning not just her Dothraki and unsullied but any freed slave who wants to go. But she felt pressured, and was only a little girl, not yet tempered, etc. Now Yunkai should burn... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 She would die from old age waiting for Westeros to accept a foreigner woman with no political alliance. If she defeats, if she controls the dragons, if she is alive, if if if… to many ifs. But what we know for sure and what history tells us is that Dorne never bends. Dorne didn’t bend when there were true dangers not a girl with three chicks, you prefer three 10 yo chicks? Ok, 3 10yo chicks. This is just... so wrong. Dorne would bend the knee. It doesn't want independence anymore. And, if the Martells refused to bend, they would be replaced by a house willing to support Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 This is just... so wrong. Dorne would bend the knee. It doesn't want independence anymore. And, if the Martells refused to bend, they would be replaced by a house willing to support Daenerys. Like they had done before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 While I don't count Aegon I as a "failure" for not conquering Dorne, I also don't believe for a second that Dany or fake Aegon or anyone can get the Dornish to do anything they don't want to do. I don't realistically see how Dany, who has juvenile dragons (and that may not even be plural) and knows nothing about Westerosi politics, is going to succeed where Aegon, who had three grown dragons and knew Westeros inside and out, failed. I just don't. This talk of Dorne obviously bending the knee is based on wishful thinking, certainly not any actual precedent. And while I don't blame Dany for Quentyn's death, Doran and certainly the Sand Snakes might. Perception is reality and all that. Fair, no. But life isn't fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Did you not read what I wrote? I quite clearly said that in ten or fifteen years (or even more) the political landscape of Westeros would be VERY different, and there would surely be a lot of potential allies for Dany - or she could just wait until there was. Quentyn was only suitable as a husband if she wanted to leave Meereen instantly. I don't think you understand how post-unified Westeros works. If Dany defeats whoever Dorne supports, and then manages to take King's Landing, Dorne will bend the knee. Being independent isn't an option for Dorne anymore - and it certainly won't be after its army is severely weakened in the upcoming conflict. If the Martells refuse to bend the knee to Dany, I'm sure the Yronwoods would happily take their place as Lord Paramount. This! She would die from old age waiting for Westeros to accept a foreigner woman with no political alliance. If she wins, if she controls the dragons, if she is alive, if if if… to many ifs. But what we know for sure and what history tells us is that Dorne never bends. Dorne didn’t bend when there were true dangers not a girl with three chicks, you prefer three 10 yo chicks? Ok, 3 10yo chicks. Dany is young so she has time a plenty and Archmaester Marwyn who has extensive knowledge of dragons and magic is on his way to her. Dorne did bend the knee to very dragonless Robert. And comparing Dany's dragons, who already are causing death and destruction, to chicks is a comparison without rhyme or reason. Like they had done before? Robert Baratheon, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 While I don't count Aegon I as a "failure" for not conquering Dorne, I also don't believe for a second that Dany or fake Aegon or anyone can get the Dornish to do anything they don't want to do. I don't realistically see how Dany, who has juvenile dragons (and that may not even be plural) and knows nothing about Westerosi politics, is going to succeed where Aegon, who had three grown dragons and knew Westeros inside and out, failed. I just don't. This talk of Dorne obviously bending the knee is based on wishful thinking, certainly not any actual precedent. And while I don't blame Dany for Quentyn's death, Doran and certainly the Sand Snakes might. Perception is reality and all that. Fair, no. But life isn't fair. What Dany has to do is take her time. Let her dragons grow stronger and take the good advice of Archmaester Marwyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Dany is young so she has time a plenty and Archmaester Marwyn who has extensive knowledge of dragons and magic is on his way to her. Dorne did bend the knee to very dragonless Robert. And comparing Dany's dragons, who already are causing death and destruction, to chicks is a comparison without rhyme or reason. Robert Baratheon, anyone? And are you sure that Marwyn want to help her and not used her? Dany's dragon(s)=Chicks Aegon's dragons=serious dragons. When Robert was offered a Dornish marriage and he declined? And more imprtanly declined and the bride died under his roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 What Dany has to do is take her time. Let her dragons grow stronger and take the good advice of Archmaester Marwyn. Seeing as we don't yet know what Marwyn's real agenda is or what advice he's planning to give her, assuming he even reaches her, I'm hesitant to assume that it's "good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 While I don't count Aegon I as a "failure" for not conquering Dorne, I also don't believe for a second that Dany or fake Aegon or anyone can get the Dornish to do anything they don't want to do. I don't realistically see how Dany, who has juvenile dragons (and that may not even be plural) and knows nothing about Westerosi politics, is going to succeed where Aegon, who had three grown dragons and knew Westeros inside and out, failed. I just don't. This talk of Dorne obviously bending the knee is based on wishful thinking, certainly not any actual precedent. And while I don't blame Dany for Quentyn's death, Doran and certainly the Sand Snakes might. Perception is reality and all that. Fair, no. But life isn't fair. That was when the Dornish army was not heading to Westeros. That was when the Dornish did not want to be part of a unified realm. It's different now. And if the Martells don't want to bend the knee, I'm certain there are other houses who would be more than willing to take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 And are you sure that Marwyn want to help her and not used her? Yes! Yes! Yes! He is taking the place of Dany's late relative Maester Aemon. Dany's dragon(s)=Chicks Still very leathal "chicks". Quentyn and others could tell you all, about, but very unfortunatly they are not around anymore to tell the story. When Robert was offered a Dornish marriage and he declined? And more imprtanly declined and the bride died under his roof? Robert let the murderers of Elia of Dorne and her children go unpunished and Dorne still bent the knee...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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