Club-foot cleft-lips

I understand your point. My point was that even if Varys didn't support Rhaegar, this is how his support for a legitimate Aegon can be explained. I'm not arguing what Varys' actual motivations are. I'm arguing how one specific version of the situation, 'How Varys could support the son when not the father,' raised by the topic poster, can be explained. How: 1: If Aegon is genuinely Rhaegar's son that means Varys supported the son but not the father. and 2: Varys is the reason Aerys left Kingslanding to attend the Tourney at Harrenhal. (in context to the topic, to detriment of Rhaegar) Even accepted at face value as presented and interpreted by the topic poster, do not necessarily contradict one another. You are challenging the premises of the topic's argument. I am challenging the conclusion of the topic's argument. If you want to have the conversation that Varys actions sending Aerys to Harrenhal was to the favor of Rhaegar, that is a conversation you should raise with the topic poster or in a new topic post, but not to me.

I'm not saying this isn't the case. This very well may have been the case. Though one might argue it might have been possible or at least easier to call an informal great council to legally unseat his father if Aerys were not to attended said tourney. And if the Realm is more important than the king, Varys would be more than capable of simply killing Aerys so the rightful heir takes his place. If Aegon is fake, the plan to put in a pretender likely predates the birth of Aegon. But @Tradecraft's question was, why, assuming Aegon was legitimate ie "Genuinly Rheagar's son", would Varys support Aegon if he didn't support his father? And reasoned that the lack of the support of his father meant Aegon's identify was feigned. So if he is really his son, why support aegon when not Rheagar? In ostent, it is because Varys supported the king, as the king's spymaster. And he did his job faithfully. So, Why support Aegon and not Rheagar. Aegon is king. Rhaegar never was. If asked by a Targ. loyalist who thinks Aegon is real, that is likely what Varys would claim. And if Varys was genuinely loyal to house Targaryen (a Eunuch and thief honored up to serve an emperor who called him lord), this is how his actions could be reasoned.

first and foremost, yes, some variation of this is likely the case. I personally like the idea of Saera Blackfyre - the female line. But... This is not a case of supporting the son and not the father, but a case of serving the rightful king over his likely conspiring son. Aerys II Targaryen was King, not Rhaegar Targaryen. Rhaegar may have been heir, and a better man to serve than his father, but duty to the king demands Varys serve Aerys, just as Duty to the King is why Ned tried to install Stannis as king, not Renly. Aerys outlived Rhaegar, so this duty to the king went on until his kings death, and that duty is passed onto the next in line for the throne, baby Aegon V. That is at least the pretense of Varys service to Aegon, if not the reality.

I've just sort of skimmed this thread so far, but I like the idea of a rescue attempt too. But I want it to be the Meereen rescue attempt, maybe with Hero or Jhogo as the pov, and it ending with Daario fulfilling the second betrayal of Dany (maybe while thinking she is dead) ending the chapter where he kills Jhogo and betrays Meereen for a promise of gold.

I have three words for you: FAT SUIT ILLYRIO Completely stupid. Absolutely love it.

I just thought of this joke (might be dumb): A Man on the ground floor of a high rise opens the door to an elevator. Inside, he notices two other men waiting within. The two men look at the new man expectantly and ask, "Are you a Buddhist?" When the man answers "Yes," the two others sigh and say, "So are we. Take a seat. Maybe the next person to enter will want to ascend." As a side not, @House Cambodia I just want to express some respect. A close family friend of mine lived though the horrors of the 70s in Cambodia before emigrating. While I don't personally prescribe to Buddhism, I admire the work your fellow scholars and theologians have put in to reviving and preserving that tradition, historically, culturally and spiritually.

I like the faceless men a lot. in a weird way, their sort of like the Buddhists of asoiaf, in that they see life as suffering, and a main aspect of their religious practice is the extinguishing of the self/identity (death is not evil). Even there universalism in a way resembles the Indian parable of the Blind men and the Elephant, (with ritual blindness being part of initiation/training). all that speak to the potential longevity of this religious practice, Yet at the same time, they resemble the Hasan-i Sabbah's order of Hassassins, speaking to their potential solubility. The old gods feel like they exist far more precariously than many religions. the Celtic religion was eventually pretty much stamped out eventually, and depending on how the coming war for the dawn goes, might be in turn vulnerable to a whole new round of persecution. Maybe they reemerge as some form of neopaganism, but that would make it more of a cultural religion rather than spiritual. some survival though. They are just the germanic religion, so they have a good chance of being wiped out by the faith of the seven, and with it the old way of reavers. but that will likely require a leader who is a convert to another religion to take them over, like if Theon started worshiping the red god or the seven. like the north, they probably have a few good years, but especially against a fanatic like the high sparrow and the re-emergence of the holy knightly orders, and the soon to be raiding of the sept at old town by Euron, I can only see a soon to come end for them. George R. R. Martin based the Faith of the Seven on the medieval Catholic Church, although it borrows from other elements as well. The Faith's central doctrine that there is one god who has seven aspects—the Father, the Mother, the Maiden, the Crone, the Smith, the Warrior, and the Stranger—is based on the Catholic belief that there is one God who has three aspects: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This speaks to their longevity, but also suggests we might get a schism at some point, and in the areas far away from the base of their power, so if the old gods and wet gods go, their is the place we might see opposition in a protestant faith of the seven emerge. oversimplifying, the Protestant movement can be traced to the humanist movement, starting with the ad fonte (or return to text) movement with Erasmus. this suggest to me that scholars will be the source of the split, which suggests old town, but given proximity to the faith their, I think we have a better chance of the movement coming from someone like Rodrick the reader or his kin/successor. and finally we have Zoroastrianism, which tell me that not only will the red faith be replaced, what replaces it will eventually be replaced. Manichaeism was a syncretic religion that took aspects of christianity, buddhism, and Zoroastrianism amongst others and dominated western Asia for a time. I see Dany as being the person who will take up this role as a Messiah figure, which will be popular following all the slave revolts and war with the cold. Then will come islam to replace that, but a figure for that role seem far and away. Another god to consider is the god of the Dothraki, the sky, from with shamanistic Tengrism. I guess what I mean to say is, I really like all of them, but with the hindsight of history, I don't want to live with any of them too closely. id rather live on the summer isles, where love is not a crime, and life and spirit is celebrated with joy and not dogmatic obedience.

yeah, that still drives me crazy

First off, Happy birthday. I peaked at your profile page. next.. Do you have a preferred Jon parentage theory? or more fun, a preferred R+L child that you like the idea of more?

"Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." Some users point at Jon as a sort of in-Universe Corn King. perhaps the willing self sacrifice of Jon to the others will appease them and end the war. Who else is ready for some Jon centric christianity?

I could buy into this, but I have trouble seeing any good reason Craster is special besides the overused one. He's what 60-80 years old? has white hair (silver turning white). Marries his kin. What clan does that describes? and while I cant firmly place any Starks on the wall during his estimated time of birth, we can put Bloodraven there. but that is all circumstantial. Yeah his mother is from white tree, and i wouldn't be surprised if bloodraven checked it out as a Ranger, hes got his own familial great weirwood. Yeah his name means crow, but lots of crows on the wall. its not like he resembles him in any other way. So maybe Craster is building the other army on behalf of his dad, the champion of the great cold god, but at the same time, if every bloodraven parentage theory is correct, we would all be bastards of great bastards. Maybe there is something special about Craster, but if it isnt for something that has been foreshadowed already, than it just seems too... deus ex.

I'm curious how would you then feel about an interpretation of Craster being something like the loyal bannerman, or maybe as being just a human, a The Others version of a smallfolk, paying his taxes, with Mance then being more an (in this specific relationship with the others) an (un)intentional rebel? Just as a general framework for the relationship.

Lovers of Leanan sindhe arn't bold, but inspired (usually artistically). Rhaegar was a singer, and together they sang A Song of Ice and Fire. Not to mention the base of R&R's conflict was at least in ostent, a fight over Lyanna, so it kind of was his love of her that killed him.

According to legends, the Arm of Dorne was broken by the Hammer of the Waters, summoned by the Children of the Forrest, possibly as a result of human sacrifice. The following will be a speculation of how the arm was broken instead by an ecological disaster similar to the one that broke the arm connecting the Island of England to Mainland Europe. Specifically we will be looking at the flooding of the Doggerland, an area in the North Sea flooded by rising sea levels around 6500–6200 BCE. The flooded land is known as the Dogger Littoral. This area stretched from England to the Netherland before being flooded as a result the end of the last glacial period. (end of our own historical long winter) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland Around this period, and in the wake of rising water levels, we have Storegga Slide in Western Norway, where land in Norway's continental shelf collapsed, causing a Paleo-tsunami, and accounting for the jagged shape of Norway's West coast. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storegga_Slide Their is good reason to speculate that this is similar, at least in effect if not fact, to how the Arm of Dorne broke. George is a big history nerd after all. So, At the End of Long Period of Winter, a Westerosi relative melting point, either purposely caused by magic, or just a natural change in global temperature (gods are often used to explain natural disasters), caused this area to flood, and the rising sea levels, along with the often sandy and mountainous region of Dorne being heavily eroded by wind, and now being submersed, for one reason or another collapsed, created a tsunami that in effect finished the flooding and acted as the proverbial hammer. Alternatively, the shelf collapse could have happened somewhere between the Fingers, through the Stormlands, accounting for the strange and jagged shape of that extended coastline.

Mamluks were freed slave soldiers that formed a sultanate that existed from the 13th-16th century. One might think George is setting up the unsullied to take a similar role. I could see such a path for slavers bay. There are also plenty examples of steppe nomad clans seizing power and becoming city people, from the Persian Cyrus to a over a thousand years later with the Mongol Temujin. Dany might be able to settle some, but eventually new horse lords will come to take their place. Dany was more than willing to crown one brother as king, so maybe she will be willing to crown another, if she recognizes the claim. If she feels Westeros is secure under a rightful Targaryen ruler, she may even decide to go back to Essos and rule as Queen/Empress/Khaleesi there instead. Missandei might also make a good chosen successor so long as Dany's troops know she is her chosen rep. she also has unsullied brothers after all, and is a former slave, and confidante of the queen. not a bad choice if were deciding leaders meritoriously. After uprising and regime change, on average it takes twenty years for things to really stabilize, and thats the modern pace. Essos may very well need Dany to lead after all her wars, otherwise...

I'm curious how long Mance has been fighting the Others. did he become king beyond the wall specifically to fight them? Probably not, because it took him years to consolidate his place, and he tends to want to get away from them even with the whole of his army collected. For how long was he digging up barrows looking for the Horn of Winter? What other sacred places might have he disturbed? Barrows are sacred to the aes sídhe, and other equivalent Celtic faeries, and they are after all who the Others are based on. Maybe the Others are just pissed because wildlings/Mance disturbed the sacred land of the resting dead. that alone would probably anger them enough to organize a retaliatory response. Maybe it was the last straw that made them decide it was time to get all these people away from their side of the wall. and it worked. By this logic, its men that are the wrong, and needs to make amends/apologize That is, if we are looking for a reasonable justification for the others actions.

sources putting irish wolf hounds in the weight range of 120: "On average, a full-grown Irish Wolfhound weighs between 90-140 pounds depending on the dog's gender, genetic lineage, and lifestyle https://www.pawlicy.com/blog/irish-wolfhound-growth-and-weight-chart/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Wolfhound#Characteristics https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/irish-wolfhound/ https://www.thesprucepets.com/irish-wolfhound-dog-breed-profile-4776801 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Wolfhound Further size comparison between wolfhound and mastiff: The Irish Wolfhound has an overall average body length of roughly 46”-50.5” (117-128 cm), standing height of 41”-45” (104-114 cm) The Mastiff has an overall average body length of roughly 44.5”-53” (113-135 cm), standing height of 35”-42” (89-107 cm) I invite you to show literally any source supporting wolves going after or hunting healthy lions. again that was the large pack of wolves, the story itself acknowledges all but nymeria, who has arya to temper her psyche, are afraid of "iron men" and in a fight between an armored man and a lion id pick a lion "Wild lions were seen during the reign of Lord Tytos Lannister, as the first knight of House Clegane, the kennelmaster at the Rock, saved Tytos from a lioness and lost a leg and three dogs in the effort" you start here with an ad hominem attack, and then admit that a lion would have the size advantage, something a cave lion would maintain over a direwolf, while in the second part you argue that because a pack of wolves of indeterminate size might be able to beat one regular lion, a lion must be worse, which is silly because numbers are often how weaker beings overcome superior physique. so the end of your argument here is sort of a straw man. larger herbivores, attacked in packs, but not carnivore like bears, or very large herbivores like moose or other mega fauna. certainly not lions. And if im being honest, all the bad faith arguments and goalpost moving you've provided is just sort of tiring. Its like your arguing just to not back down. It feels unlikely this debate is going anywhere positive, and I know when to walk away. I wish you the best of luck, but I think the strategy is just to ignore you from now on. Peace.

Irish wolfhounds are are in a competitive weight with seven of the fifteen heaviest dog breeds, none in that range gaining more than 15 pounds on them at the heaviest end. Even if we measure direwolves by four times the average weight of the heaviest dog breed, the mastiffs, we are still only getting to just as heavy as cave lions. And by all accounts, they are not built like mastiff's but like large headed wolves, gaunt like ghost, with the initial weight I provided by being correctly proportional to the weight of real wolves, converted to the size proportionality of the largest breeds of pony. If it was much bigger, say as big as a destrier, Bran would have said so. Based on size and skeletal limitations, its unlikely a Dire wolf could weigh more than 500 lbs, more likely being somewhere in the 400 lbs (or 200 kg) range, at the highest. And Bran was obviously describing the size. You don't eyeball something's weight. He's a child after all. Twice the weight of a wolfhound wouldn't be 300 lbs would be 240 at the highest. But even so, at 600 lbs like you proposed, its still less than a cave lions weight, which average in the 700+ lbs range. And their are no recorded instances of a wolves ever predating or killing healthy adult lions in the wild, and especially no cases of single wolves killing a healthy adult male lion. Cubs and the already dying, sure, but none full grown and healthy. and even the sick and injured lions they fight, they fight as a pack. Otherwise, It really just doesn't ever happen. Also, Besides maintaining a size, weight, dexterity, and strength advantage, we can also expect a cave lion to have superior vision and reaction time that most cat panthera species maintain over canis species. The wolf has a better nose, but in a fight, that is less useful. Really the more I look into it, the worse and worse it looks for direwolves. Not that you can't believe what you want. Its a fantasy series after all. I just wanted to clear up a few realities.

Wow, I really like this sort of topic. within philosophical debate regarding the nature of a god, their exists the concept of the conflict of how we can both have free will and god can be all knowing contradict, because god knowing all means we can only do what god knows we do, and one solution that is popular, is the idea that a god that existed outside of our universe and concept of time, created the whole of time at once, like making the entire an film real appear in their hand. so that way god can know everything that will happen, but everything that happened was a result of free will all happening at he same time, from the perspective of god. The idea of your painting definitely encapsulates that concept nicely, especially the realm of the dead, or the realm of god, existing out of time. very fun to think about. two conflicting gods make it even more crazy to think about. maybe one exists in time and the other without, and their fight is a tug of war for who decides. idk. I think that George sort of hints at something like this with Lyanna Stark and her relationship the Rheagar to be like that of Celtic Leanan Sídhe, fairly lovers that live short but inspiring lives. nights queen was probably a fairly lover, and they have likely mixed blood with many northern houses, or all given how starks until recently tended to marry northern spouses... well a lot of potential bastards from a lot of houses.

I love dreaming of spring...

no, not really if a westerosi direwolf is around the size or even somewhat bigger than a pony, and lets for example use a scottish highland pony as a prototype (or another of the largest pony breeds), that would put it in a size range of 130-150 cm in height, and approximately 170-195 centimeter length range. given the average proportions and weight of real wolves, that would put a direwolf in the weight range of 90-100kg. maybe up to 100-120kg a bit more with that big head and all. generously we could go up to 200 kg. 4x the weight if an Irish wolfhound, direwolves only every being described as more than twice the size of a large hound. Some cave lions on the other hand have been found to have reached a length of 250 cm in length. its height range is also similar to a westerosi direwolf, with records of reaching the 130+ centimeter range. next comes in weight, with the average male cave lion being in the 300+ kg range, which is not an negligible weight difference, especially when that is muscle and not fat. this should not be surprising, as the closest feliform is size to modern wolves, the cougar, on average doubles the weight of wolves. we should also not neglect what this means for the possible paw strength of this cave lions, being larger than tigers that are capable of cracking the skulls of bears with a single strike, and are capable of far greater expression of dexterity and movement than caniforms. an alpha male cave lion could probably live spatchcock the average direwolf. Which does bring up my next point, this is of course a male cave lion. females on average are smaller, and if direwolves are on average more size uniform between male and female, in a pack fight they might have a better chance. finally, I feel it worth noting that if westrosi direwolves are larger than real direwolves, one might also expect westerosi great lions to be larger than real world cave lions, but like the great lions being cave lions itself, it really is only speculation. really neither should want to fight the other unless they are competing over territory, otherwise, the risk of the fight is too great for a wild animal to be worth it. out of 36 stratagems, running away is still often the best move.

so i just though id throw this out their, but the lions of westeros, called the great lions of the western hills, probably arn't the same type of lions we see in Africa. im willing to bet they are either the extinct cave lion (native to Europe) or extinct American lion, both special of which are between 12-20% larger than African lions, which is pretty damn big. (great) lions they are their own sort of (dire) wolf, and i would not make any easy assumptions about either in a fight. both are pack animals, and dangerous in their own territory.

that's a good point, Franklins were land owners with a good deal of autonomy, and usually relatively more wealthy, though not noble, while crofters were land renters with more restrictions placed on them. Franklins were more common in England, and forging me if i'm wrong, but crofters are traditionally associated with Scotland. the concept does beg the question to how nuances might develop between kingdom territories in Westeros in regards to types of small folk, especially between the north and south of the neck. we have the distinction of thralls in the iron island, so to generalize all small folk like Tyrion, or in this case, I did, can create some narrow conceptions of financial capabilities. more wealthy small folk will have the means to maintain dog teams, and in the north, might use this methods without as much risk, but would still be just as if not more likely to own work horses or donkeys that could then wear snowshoes. the number of small folk in the north is hard to conjecture accurately, just due to vastness, climate, and irregular season, so the relative wealth of small folk, and the relative number of wealthy small folk, north vs south is tricky to pin down.

with at least 102+ living freys, counting bastards, this checks out.

Just to clarify, the smallfolk in asoiaf are more akin to peasants than serfs. given the large migrations of smallfolk we have seen in the series, and their ability to own land and property, we can probably conclude that they are not legally bound to the land they work in the same way serfs were. as to the question of ownership of animals, we should note their are many types of horse breeds and similar beasts of burden that may provide the same job. one small folk will own one and another, another. We can assume some do probably have or make sleds, but with such a long summer, who south of the wall would be making them, or breeding dogs for pulling them, lately? most dogs in the north are probably currently used for hunting, or guarding livestock. some northman, especially the mountain clans, might still be using sled dogs, but again, not so much in war. Regular smallfolk might still use sled dogs in the north, but they have not so much have been a focal point, so the extent, especially since winter is just starting, is hard to determine. most small folk probably own neither, and so do their best not to travel in the winter, having stocked up in the summer. a dog might be good for hunting in the winter, but too many can be too many mouths to feed, especially because they need meat, where horses only need grain/grass.