John Suburbs

I suspect that Varys is one of his secret identities too. Very unlikely he's actually a eunuch.

Like @Angel Eyes said. It was only the Stone Crows that heard that. The rest were promised good steel, which they got. I'm not sure the mountain clans even want the Vale. They're too few to keep it, so at best they would leave it open for raiding. But they've mountain folk, not valley folk. Raiders and reavers, like the ironmen, not farmers and traders.

She knew what she was doing. She could sense it. Dothraki are not truly dead until they are burned and their souls rise into the nightlands. So technically, both Drogo and Rhaego were still alive. As for the rest, it was a "one-time magical event." So whatever requirements needed to receive this boon from the gods, Dany fulfilled them. Personally, my take is that it was the sacrifice that the three lives represented to her, even Miri. That was how Azor Ahai got his magic sword -- not prayer or devotion or formulas, but the sacrifice of his beloved wife.

That was on Sweetsister, though, in the Vale. So he should be a Stone.

You can say that about any character. Tyrion should have died at the Eyrie, or at the hands of the mountain clans. Dany should have died in the tent with Mirri, or in the Red Waste. Jon should have died in Stannis' attack on the wildlings . . . I should be dead too, or at least seriously maimed, from all the crazy shit I got up to as a kid and young adult, but here I am. Winning the game is not a matter of skill or strength or intelligence, but luck.

By nature, magic is unknowable, and dragons are nothing if not magic. So the ingredients for their creation should, and most likely will be, unknown. Having said that, my take is that Dany's dragons were a gift from whatever supernatural power is responsible for them -- call them gods, if you will. And like the story of Nissa Nissa shows, it's not a particular formula or ceremony that matters, but the nature of the sacrifice. Azor tried all different ways to make his sword, but it was only when he sacrificed his beloved wife -- the person he cared for more than anything else in the world -- did he get it. A great gift requires a great sacrifice. So it was the same with Dany. Her three sacrifices were: her sun and stars, he unborn son, aka, the stallion who mounts the world, and MMD, who represented her last hope for the life she desired. That was enough for three dragons. And it was why other attempts to hatch dragons, like Summerhall, ended in failure: because the sacrifice (Rhaegar) was not adequate. Obviously, I'm not talking about the earlier Targ dragons, since those were the residual gifts of whatever sacrifice was made that gave them dragons in the first place. So in that sense, humans are an ingredient in creating dragons; but only if they are a worthy sacrifice -- something that animals and inanimate objects are not likely to be.

There are no hard and fast rules for bastard surnames. Both of their mothers were riverlanders, so either by choice or happenstance, they both became Rivers. Jon Snow was born in the Dornish marches, and he was a Snow.

Not to quibble, but the tourney and Petyr's duel with Brandon when he was "scarcely 15" could have been only a few weeks apart. So Petyr might still have turned 15 by the tourney, or been near enough as makes no matter. Either way, he was a nobody at that time, so it's unlikely that he was involved in any of the chicanery going on.

Eh, did they lose because of what Balon did? Or what Theon, Tywin, Bolton, Frey, and Robb himself did? And did Balon actually pull off his plan? Seems to me that it was already starting to unravel before he died.

Not really. He has Theon, and a good chunk of the north's strength is down in the riverlands. Remember, he's not looking to rule, just plunder. He can call himself king, but he's really just raiding. If Robb is defeated and the realm solidifies, he can back off and even claim a part in the victory. So all in all it's a pretty good strategy, even if some details are lacking. He's ironborn, so why would anyone expect him to be a genius? And you can parse through the strategies of all the kings and wonder why they did certain things. What was Tywin's plan before the Tyrell alliance? What did Stannis hope to gain by entrusting his fate to the red woman at Storm's End? Why would Robb expect Tywin to surrender the Iron Throne and his family just to prevent a little plundering back home? (He didn't, actually, but not many readers can see that yet).

Even if the terms were more acceptable, Balon was still better off attacking the north. It's all a numbers game: There are two possible outcomes in Robb vs the other kings: either Robb wins and carves out a kingdom consisting of the north and riverlands, or one of the others wins and unite the kingdom under one rule. So by attacking just the north now, Balon sets himself against the weakest opponent: if Robb is eventually defeated, then no harm no foul. In fact, Balon could even take some credit in helping the victor. If Robb wins, then Balon only faces blowback from a diminished kingdom, and neither the north nor the Riverlands have any naval power to speak of. If someone else prevails, then Balon could always stand down, or negotiate a suitable outcome -- like allowing for continued raiding along the northern and riverland coast. That's all he wants, after all. He doesn't want to rule over any greenland territory. He's not going to collect taxes, hear petitions, set up courts, etc. That's not how ironmen roll. He only wants to establish the old way, paying the iron price for wealth and plunder. And, of course, if not one prevails, then the realm falls to anarchy and Balon can raid and reave wherever he pleases.

I think more were involved. Acolytes mostly, setting up the caches. Only a few knew what it was all about, though. Unless Rossart and the other two were just BSing Aerys the whole time . . . But assuming they weren't, sure, whether it would have worked is one question. And whether Rossart and the others would actually do it is another. At minimum, they would want some kind of delay trigger on the first explosion, unless they all had death wishes.

Are there caches all over the city? Tyrion has all the new-made stuff up on the ramparts to be launched at the attackers, but it doesn't make sense to have it stashed in the city. They did find some old jars under the dragonpit, but none of the rioter's fires were close to that, and it had probably been removed by the time of the battle anyway. A more interesting question is why didn't the fires from Tywin's sack in 283 light up a cache and send the whole city up.

Maybe they were, but do they command the power of House Bolton? Do they have an equal pedigree? And by your logic, Robb can never select anyone to do anything because someone will get their nose bent about it. That's one of the things kings have to do: make decisions. Robb chose Roose, maybe because he was intimidated, maybe because he thought Roose was the best man for the job, maybe because he valued the other lord's skills with lance and sword for his mission, or maybe because he just didn't want to look at his face anymore.

Lol, so I'm rude for introducing a stormlands topic not related to politics, but @Craving Peaches is not by talking about the founding myth of Storm's End -- which, btw, is directly related to the storms that batter the stormlands? PS: And sorry, but your contention that things that are not happening are of no significance is disproven by the text time and time again. Many of the major plot twists were foreshadowed by things that were not happening but should have been.

I'm not sure that House Hornwood out-powers House Bolton in either swords or wealth, but it's indeterminate. Bolton can complain about not being given command of the bulk of the army and instead has to be at Robb's side while he makes the decisions with the cavalry. Being given command is a great honor that is only bestowed on the most capable, competent commands with the highest pedigree. But it's also not about complaining. It's about trust. Passing over Bolton would send a signal that Robb does not trust him, and needs him close, with men like the Greatjon at his side, to enforce his loyalty. That is a sure way to breed disloyalty, which can impact Robb's army when it is someone who brought as many swords as Bolton did. Of course, it turns out that Robb could not trust Bolton in any event, but at the time selecting him for command was the only real option.

Nobody owns the board, and nobody can dictate the responses to their threats. These are developments in the stormlands. That's what the thread was about. Nobody ever said it was restricted to politics. And as we've seen, the weather undergirds everything that is happening politically in asioaf. So if you don't want to discuss it, why do you keep bringing it up?

Yup, he is very adept at that sort of multi-layering.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the symbolism here. My guess is that shooting at falling apples is a good way to practice shooting a dragon in the eye.

I was skeptical until you brought up the white-and-blue motif, so maybe. But I'm still not clear on why Wun Wun would draw a distinction between white fur and white wool, given his poor eyesight.

Roose has a way of bringing people around to his point of view, with his soft voice and eerily hypnotic eyes. My understanding is that House Bolton is one of, if not the, most powerful banners in the north -- more than the Manderlys in terms of swords. Plus, Wylis is a lord's son while Roose is a lord. Not giving Roose command of the southern march would cause a rift that Robb can't afford.

You asked about developments in the stormlands. This is about developments, or lack thereof, in the stormlands.

The World Book says the stormlands are called the stormlands specifically because of the violent storms that smash into it, particularly in autumn: Yes, autumn is over. It lasted about a year. And no storms of any note, despite the enormous amount of atmospheric energy being transferred from the longest, hottest summer in living memory to what is supposed to be another Long Night. Very odd. Yes, all the storms are either far north or far west. The flooding that hit the Riverlands came from the complete opposite direction: northwest to southeast. The storm that hit Sam and Gilly on the way to Braavos was way north, and the one that hit Tyrion and Penny was way west. So all this activity everywhere, but not a peep out of the region that is noteworthy for the frequency and savagery of its autumn storms. Even odder still.

But these should be storms beyond anything the stormlands has seen in generations, no? Fairly quick autumn sandwiched between the longest, hottest summer in living memory and the next long night? You'd think there would at least be a mention of it in small council, not to mention a few rainy days in King's Landing, and waves of refugees fleeing the devastation.

Well, sure, but the storms mentioned in the world book were actual storms, not literary devices. And now autumn is over between the longest, hottest summer in living memory and what is expected to be another long night, but not a single storm in the stormlands. Did Mel do that all by herself, was it just an oversight, or is something else going on?