Where do the Great Houses rank in wealth?

[Net-Viper X]

From the wealthiest to the least wealthy,

My thoughts were:

1. Lannisters-gold mines

2. Tyrells- most fertile land, large

3. Tullys- fertile land

4. Martells-a lot of exporting of exotic goods, trade outside 7 Kingdoms

5. Starks- silver mines, White Harbor port

6. Arryn- Gulltown port

7.Baratheons

8.Greyjoys

Your thoughts??

I would say the Baratheons where only rich until Robert came of age, now they are the brokest family in Westeros. Robert after all had a beer tab that bankrupt a kingdom, and thats before he payed his whores. :D

[Batman]

You're right. I should have stated 300 years as Lord Paramounts.

Can we say that in terms of modern wealth, the Lannisters and Tyrells are billionaires? The middle-of-the-pack houses are millionaires hundreds of times over (anywhere from 100 million to 700-800 million) and the guys at the bottom are millionaires tens of times over (50 million to 90 million). Or do these numbers skew too high?

I would say to low, look at how every/most modern dictator is a billionaire. You have to See that THese Lords own their Region and can usw all THe people AS workforce

Business insider had an article describing the richest people of all time adjusted for inflation. They estimate Henry Duke of Lancaster as having a peak worth of $77 billion, John of Gaunt comes in at $101 billion, Richard Fitzalan $108, William de Warenne $134 billion and Alan Rufus $149 billion. William the conqueror tops the pack as far as the middle ages rich list goes with $209 billion. Just another article I found interesting as it relates to this topic.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/richest-people-in-history-2010-8#3-william-the-conqueror-18

[Batman]

I would say the Baratheons where only rich until Robert came of age, now they are the brokest family in Westeros. Robert after all had a beer tab that bankrupt a kingdom, and thats before he payed his whores. :D

Think he would have dipped into Storms Ends vaults for that beer/whore money? He gave it to Renly. Aerys left plenty of good time cash to be had and the heavy loans would point to him not choosing to have access to Storms Ends vault and incomes.

[The Fallen]

Business insider had an article describing the richest people of all time adjusted for inflation. They estimate Henry Duke of Lancaster as having a peak worth of $77 billion, John of Gaunt comes in at $101 billion, Richard Fitzalan $108, William de Warenne $134 billion and Alan Rufus $149 billion. William the conqueror tops the pack as far as the middle ages rich list goes with $209 billion. Just another article I found interesting as it relates to this topic.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/richest-people-in-history-2010-8#3-william-the-conqueror-18

That Slate article was a good read. Obviously in Martin's world the Lannisters are the richest. But in the real world, the Lannisters using gold in the way they do is the equivalent of a government continuously printing money. It leads to inflation, which devalues that currency.

The figures for those medieval kings are astounding. They're a lot higher, in some cases double, than the wealth of the richest guys in today's world. It just shows how the world changes. You go from monarchs who own everything, to robber barons, to oil tycoons, to the tech guys of today.

[ninewinter]

At what point of time are we talking here anyway?Prior the death of Robert Baratheon?

Because if its not, I would like to construct a current time frame, which i would rank them to be;

1) Tyrell: they were spared in major fighting, and although they have spend some money in feeding their troops, their coffers arent emptying. More and more lords are buying food stocks in their hoard to prepare in the winter.

2) Arryn: Minus the sporadic mountain clans' incursions, the vale remains one of the most fertile lands in westeros, and its people untouched by war. It has a city: Gulltown, and its wealth are not spent in maintaining armies.

3) The Lannisters might once be the wealthiest, but, even their gold mines were ravaged, and I dont need to elaborate how pre war of the five kings, the Lannisters and the Tyrell might be equal in wealth. Most of their wealth were spent in raising and supplying their troops. Now I'm sure they are rebuilding Westerlands and preparing for Winter, and with no clear leaders to govern their economies, I'm pretty sure the Westerlands are experiencing a recession right now.

4) Martell: So What if you rule over the least populous regions in westeros, big cities and huge population doesnt matter when you have great trade links and wide industries going on. They have extensive connections to the free cities, their wines rival the Redwynes, their ponies famous, and I'm sure Dorne must have some hands in the production of silk, cotton, any commerce relating in fashion. Plus they were most spared in the war. I'm even thinking that maybe theyre currently richer than the lannisters.

5) Greyjoy: One does not simply sack the North without reviving their coffers. nuff said.

6) Bolton: The current overlord of the North. With no hope of harvest, no mines, no industry available in winter except scant fishing and woodcutting, the Northern lord is in the bottom list.

Now I dont know who to place in the Stormslands, or in the crownlands so I have some missing names here.

[pamparius]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but does most of the Tyrell wealth not in fact come from the Hightowers? I seem to recall a quote from the text where someone said something along the lines of "they [the hightowers] have as much gold as lannisters".

[ninewinter]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but does most of the Tyrell wealth not in fact come from the Hightowers? I seem to recall a quote from the text where someone said something along the lines of "they [the hightowers] as much gold as lannisters".

Maybe. The Hightowers might serve as the Manderlys of the Starks.

[Fat Mac]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but does most of the Tyrell wealth not in fact come from the Hightowers? I seem to recall a quote from the text where someone said something along the lines of "they [the hightowers] as much gold as lannisters".

That sounds like a boast, similar to how Dorne can raise 50,000 spears, when in fact they can only raise half that.

The Hightowers have a bigger city than the Lannisters, so going by cities alone they likely draw in more money. But the Lannisters recieve taxes from all of their banner men, some of which have goldmines themselves. Meanwhile, the Hightowers actually have to pay taxes to their liege, the Tyrells. So I don't see how the Hightowers could possibly be richer.

Also, I wouldn't say that most of the Tyrell wealth comes from the Hightowers. No doubt they are the wealthiest of the bannermen, but the Redwynes are also loaded. Arbor wine is known throughout the world. Meanwhile the Florents, Rowans, Oakhearts, Merryweathers etc are no doubt wealthy. So while the Hightowers are the richest of the Tyrell bannermen and probably contribute the largest fraction to Tyrell wealth, I wouldn't say "most" of Tyrell wealth comes from the Hightowers.

[Batman]

That Slate article was a good read. Obviously in Martin's world the Lannisters are the richest. But in the real world, the Lannisters using gold in the way they do is the equivalent of a government continuously printing money. It leads to inflation, which devalues that currency.

The figures for those medieval kings are astounding. They're a lot higher, in some cases double, than the wealth of the richest guys in today's world. It just shows how the world changes. You go from monarchs who own everything, to robber barons, to oil tycoons, to the tech guys of today.

Covered some good ground from a technical stand point. I mostly just took it at face value that, because they have gold they are the top of the anthill and never looked at the bigger picture of an overall economy.

It was pretty interesting how most of the older names of people from that list were not Kings but Earls, Dukes and other forms of nobility (William the exception). I wonder if that is just because they were the ones that were best documented and easiest to determine. I wonder if an English Duke can really be richer than the King of France or an Emperor (Byzantine, Holy Roman)? I suppose it shows the ridiculous levels of wealth that the powerful can obtain without any restrictions in their way.

[LucionLannister]

1) House Lannister. I think we all know why. Gold mines and Lannisport.

2) House Tyrell. Agriculture equals wealth throughout most of pre-Industrial Revolution history. And Oldtown probably produces a huge source of tax revenue. And its the largest southron region.

3) House Arryn. A lot of people seem to put the Tullys before them, but the Vale seems to be the most fertile after the Reach, and they have Gulltown.

4) House Tully. They're the largest region after the North and the Reach, have a lot of rivers for crops, and apparently a lot of market towns (Fairmarket, Maidenpool, etc).

5) House Stark. This is mostly because of White Harbor. And they probably have a similar population to the Stormlands, and more than Dorne or the Iron Islands.

6/7) This one is hard. On the one hand, the Stormlands probably have a better crop environment, and some of the largest forests south of the neck for a timber industry, but they have no major towns or markets. And while Dorne probably can't grow crops in a lot of places, they do seem to have some sort of exotic goods and wine industry, and Plankytown is a reasonble market port.

8) The Iron Islands. Contrary to their names, iron seems like a relative hard substance to get out of the isles, and fishing doesn't result in too much gold.

[Veltigar]

1) Lannisters: this is a no brainer. Gold, taxes and a port.

2) Tyrells: Taxes and agriculture

3) Arryns: fertile land and a port

4) Starks: the North is gigantic, there is a port, silver mines, etc.

5) Greyjoy: one does not simply maintain a standing fleet of 100 ships

6) Baratheons

7) Tully

8) Martell

[Hypnomagica]

I believe the Manderly are richer than the starks, they receive money from the hole north, yes, but the north isn't that rich and white harbor is the biggest city

perhaps the Arryn are richer than the Tullys, i don't know

Well, Lord Manderly asks the Starks to grant him the money to build a navy so I take that as loose evidence that the Starks have more money.

Also, they are a very, very, VERY old family so even if the do not have a huge income, they have had centuries to accumulate their wealth. And they aren't exactly big spenders so it is quite possible that they are much wealthier than one might expect.

[Hypnomagica]

1) Lannisters: this is a no brainer. Gold, taxes and a port.

2) Tyrells: Taxes and agriculture

3) Arryns: fertile land and a port

4) Starks: the North is gigantic, there is a port, silver mines, etc.

5) Greyjoy: one does not simply maintain a standing fleet of 100 ships

6) Baratheons

7) Tully

8) Martell

The Tyrells also have a port. Old Town is even larger than Lannisport. The only thing the Lannisters have on them is their gold mines.

[Veltigar]

The Tyrells also have a port. Old Town is even larger than Lannisport. The only thing the Lannisters have on them is their gold mines.

Oldtown is owned by House Hightower. Lannisport appears to be Lannister owned.

[German]

1. Lannisters (gold, pastoral animals, trade, craftsmen) (technically though the Tyrells resources are arguably more practical and useful)

2. Tyrells (wine, food,boatload of people to tax)

3.Tully (Many People with a few larger towns extensive farming and key trade positioning)

4. Martells (Plethora of Luxury goods being produced, Extensive trade, You don't have to have a great land to be rich look at Venice)

5. Starks (silver, and probably furs.) (Nothing in the books make me think any of the northerners other than the Manderlys are rich)

6. Arryns (fertile land) (the only reason the Arryns are so far down is that much of their lands are too mountainous to use and the hill tribes destroy their farms and raid their trade)

7. Baratheons (the Baratheons aren't known for trade or any exports)

8. Iron Islands (unless your counting the money they raided from the North their only source of income is fishing)

[German]

It was pretty interesting how most of the older names of people from that list were not Kings but Earls, Dukes and other forms of nobility (William the exception). I wonder if that is just because they were the ones that were best documented and easiest to determine. I wonder if an English Duke can really be richer than the King of France or an Emperor (Byzantine, Holy Roman)? I suppose it shows the ridiculous levels of wealth that the powerful can obtain without any restrictions in their way.

The author of the article said he wasn't counting kings or emperors since that involves putting value on the countries they own.

[Prince Davos Martell]

I wonder why the Greyjoys are ranked so low. Sure the iron isles is pretty poor, but taking into account Eurons wealth, the combined wealth of the House should be significant. Euron "lost" a Dragon egg and has other loot from Valyria, which is pretty expensive stuff. Any man that just "throws away" a Dragon Egg has to be quite rich.

[Contemplative Brother]

Two thoughts:

1. I don't believe it is actually stated in the books that the North has silver mines. Wyman Manderly talks about having silver, but he's the Lord of a thriving port, so that's the likely reason why. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it has become something of a truism on the forums and I've never actually seen it explicitly stated in the books.

2. I'm not sure GRRM cares about this stuff at all unless it is necessary to the plot. When Theon and his ironborn take Winterfell, is there any talk about them taking the Stark treasury? At all? I mean, there must be some money in Winterfell, right? I don't remember it coming up. Similarly, when Littlefinger becomes Lord Protector of the Vale, the Lords Declarant never seem concerned about what Littlefinger might do with the Arryn treasury. Again, there must be some money in the Eyrie, but I don't recall it ever coming up. To be fair, maybe the Houses that aren't insanely rich (like the Lannisters) don't really have that much money laying around at any one time.

[Prince Davos Martell]

2. I'm not sure GRRM cares about this stuff at all unless it is necessary to the plot. When Theon and his ironborn take Winterfell, is there any talk about them taking the Stark treasury? At all? I mean, there must be some money in Winterfell, right? I don't remember it coming up. Similarly, when Littlefinger becomes Lord Protector of the Vale, the Lords Declarant never seem concerned about what Littlefinger might do with the Arryn treasury. Again, there must be some money in the Eyrie, but I don't recall it ever coming up. To be fair, maybe the Houses that aren't insanely rich (like the Lannisters) don't really have that much money laying around at any one time.

If westeros is anything close to feudal societies was historically, the Houses(with the Lannisters being the exception) probably aren't that rich. A Feudal society was not based on wealth, but on power. In a Feudal society, the King is not the King because he has wealth, but because he has vasssals and land(with peasants) The real wealth in the Feudal system was the immaterial wealth of the peasants. If you had a demensene with peasants, you would get food for your troops, you would receive the materials needed from peasants, and you would have a workforce that would build stuff for you for no cost.There was some taxation of course, but nothing the ruler became wealthy from. Compared to a Merchant( For example: Illyrio Mopatis ) a Lord or King would be quite poor.

[Dimples]

2. I'm not sure GRRM cares about this stuff at all unless it is necessary to the plot. When Theon and his ironborn take Winterfell, is there any talk about them taking the Stark treasury? At all? I mean, there must be some money in Winterfell, right? I don't remember it coming up. Similarly, when Littlefinger becomes Lord Protector of the Vale, the Lords Declarant never seem concerned about what Littlefinger might do with the Arryn treasury. Again, there must be some money in the Eyrie, but I don't recall it ever coming up. To be fair, maybe the Houses that aren't insanely rich (like the Lannisters) don't really have that much money laying around at any one time.

Also, by 'wealth' we generally mean income, not big-ass stashes of money.