Your assessments - how well does ASOIAF translate?

[The Sleeper]

I actually, haven't read the greek translation, but having worked as at translator I checkeed the greek translation for some terms ... They sort of worked, but I wasn't too happy with them.

I can tell though that the books would be a bitch to translate. Half the terms about weapons, armor, castles, armor, paritcular breeds of horses outright don't exist and the ones they do would be practically unknown to the general public. Puns that Martin uses often like with the word fool (jester or well, fool) and storm (the weather or invading a castle) don't translate. Names pose a difficulty too. Since many of them are descriptive, the story becomes poorer if they are not translated. You can't do half of them though, because the rest will look pretty weird. The Greatjon and the Smalljon, for instance. If you don't translate the reader will not get what the deal is with these guys, but you can't have a prefix in one language and a name in another. I don't envy the poor bastard.

[Iona]

I have only glanced through the Swedish translation for the books, it made me cringe, it's the names that get me... Stormborn... Stormfödd. Casterly Rock... Casterlyklippan... I can go on and on. It's impossible to explain to people who are not native swedes but there's no way to take this the translation seriously, it makes me laugh out loud every time I read höggården (Highgarden). But the actual translation is arguably very accurate, but the Swedish language and my relationship to my native tongue forbids me to take the translation in earnest.. Whenever I the Swedish version i suddenly interpret everything in a much more childish context. Någon annan svensk som förstår och kan förklara vad jag pratar om?

Hahaa! That's something a Finn can also relate to - Swedish either makes us laugh or cry. (All Finns need to study Swedish for at least two years during 7-9th grade, also if you go to highschool and a couple of courses if you go to uni.) I actually saw a Swedish audiobook of AGOT and thought about getting it, to try and improve my Swedish hearing comprehension. And for the giggles. :)

[Ahura Mazda]

I would be interested to hear from other non-native English speakers if you have read ASOIAF in your native language and what did you think of the translation? I know many people dont like the names that (I guess) are often translated quite literally, and Ive seen someone complaining of actual blunders as well. In AGOT, instead of a stag killing the direwolf, it was translated as a unicorn (was it in Italy?).

I am Italian, but I don't remember this fact you are mentioning..

By the way the Italian translation is pretty good compared to some other tranalated German and English books I read in both languages.. The problem is at times certain sentences simply loose the double meaning or interpretation freedom that the original version has.. Italian often requires the translator to decide what the writer is trying to communicate because sentences need to be rewrite upside down or simply do not have a direct mapping.

edit: I hate the translation of place or person names..

[Iona]

I actually, haven't read the greek translation, but having worked as at translator I checkeed the greek translation for some terms ... They sort of worked, but I wasn't too happy with them.

I can tell though that the books would be a bitch to translate. Half the terms about weapons, armor, castles, armor, paritcular breeds of horses outright don't exist and the ones they do would be practically unknown to the general public. Puns that Martin uses often like with the word fool (jester or well, fool) and storm (the weather or invading a castle) don't translate. Names pose a difficulty too. Since many of them are descriptive, the story becomes poorer if they are not translated. You can't do half of them though, because the rest will look pretty weird. The Greatjon and the Smalljon, for instance. If you don't translate the reader will not get what the deal is with these guys, but you can't have a prefix in one language and a name in another. I don't envy the poor bastard.

I'm so glad to get answers from translators as well, thank you! You're right, ASOIAF is a bitch specifically when it comes to the term work, which probably requires a ton of background research if you're not a medieval-buff to begin with. And puns are every translator's nightmare if they don't work, and the pride and joy if they do.

I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory translation for "mummer's farce", and I fear it will haunt me to the end of my days.

[Anath]

Would you be willing to let us know what language translation you are referring to? I'm interested in general as to how well people think their native language versions have succeeded.

I have my background in translating as well, so I'm painfully aware of the fact that sometimes a translator needs to make some less-than-satisfactory choices when faced with a problem. My main beef with the Finnish translation was that it was bad Finnish in general, with the original English sentence structures shining through the text, making the language very unnatural.

And your post was not that long, my OP is looong and it was originally even longer as I was tempted to go too deep into the subject matter.

Oh, of course. Bulgarian.

I am aware of some of the weak points of the translations. There are quite a few of them. But the translation is in no way as poor as some fans believe it is. The problem is, they see a weak point and run with it, not realizing that the text does not consist by weak points alone.

I understood your post just right. Unfortunately, such situations are not rare. I was talking about the general situation: good translations that you only realize are not entirely accurate when you read the text in the author's own language. And sometimes those mistakes do change the meaning when it is important. I'd rather not cite specific places in the text but there were some of those. Since a translator can never avoid making a few mistakes, I don't hold it against this one and I don't think it ruins the text.

[MelanisticMelisandre]

Hahaa! That's something a Finn can also relate to - Swedish either makes us laugh or cry. (All Finns need to study Swedish for at least two years during 7-9th grade, also if you go to highschool and a couple of courses if you go to uni.) I actually saw a Swedish audiobook of AGOT and thought about getting it, to try and improve my Swedish hearing comprehension. And for the giggles. :)

Haha. But I have to ask you, have you tried to read the Finnish version of ASOIAF? Don't you think the names and everything else just sounds ridiculous compared to the original English version?

[Iona]

Haha. But I have to ask you, have you tried to read the Finnish version of ASOIAF? Don't you think the names and everything else just sounds ridiculous compared to the original English version?

Yep, the Finnish version of Jon Snow did make me feel a bit uncomfortable, but I guess it's unavoidable. Oddly enough it was not a literal translation, instead of the word "lumi" (snow) the translator used "nietos", which is a bit of an archaic word, meaning "a drift of snow". I can't say for sure it was done for a specific reason, but it does stand out from the text, since "nietos" is not a word Finns use too often.

However, I have to bring up that sometimes translating names and places can be done succesfully. For example, the Finnish translations of Harry Potter novels are praised specifically for the apt "translation" (or a sort of localization) of names, and the translator has received several awards for her work.

[Mr Fixit]

The main point is not to notice the original English sentence structure, patterns of speech, excessive use of pronouns (I, you, they...), etc, and in that regard I found the Serbian translation well done. I read somewhere that the translator also did his best to track down all the crazy medieval terms for weapons, armor, and other similar stuff that pops up everywhere in the books. I distinctly remember him having trouble with Martin's playful use of "bastard sword" wielded by a bastard (Jon perhaps, I forgot) since it can't be translated in Serbian.

The main problem in translating any fantasy are place names. Germanic languages just love their composite words (is that the term?) like Nightfort, Faircastle, Sunspear, Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, Brightwater Keep, etc. Those are very tough to translate without sounding supremely silly or not in the spirit of Serbian language.

Last names aren't translated (though they are phoneticised, as is customary here) except for bastard names. Therefore, we have Stark, Lanister, Erin, or Tirel, but Snežni ("of Snow" or "Snowy"), Cvetni ("of Flower" or "Flowery). Translating place names but not family names can lead to some interesting combinations like: House Blacktyde of Blacktyde ends up being Blektajd od Crnoplime, or House Casterly of Casterly Rock is Kasterli od Livačke stene, losing the connection between the two.

As for various prophecies hinging on Martin's wordplay, well, we'll see once the whole series is over. Can't blame those poor translators for not getting every single detail while working in the dark.

[EstEst]

The most difficult thing in translation is the difference in basic cultures. In any (good) book there's always allusions to commonly known movies, fairy tales, children books, typical characters, historical persons etc.etc., which is a platform for unspoken things like humor. It's very difficult to make these subtle ideas understandable to any reader unfamiliar with the basics of this particular culture.

However there're also things like technical errors. I remember some time ago Harry Potter books were translated so that the translations of the same name were different in the books, and even in the parts of a same book (the result of a team translation).

That's why I prefer reading English books in English. Trying to learn German too, so if someone can suggest me good German-language writers I'd be appreciated.

[Queen Alienor]

I read the English version first, and then I tried the German translation (don't ask me why, it made sense at that point :) ).

The translation is well done, really, but my problem were the names. When you've read five books about Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, King's Landing etc. it's hard to not cringe when you read John Schnee, Theon Graufreud, Königsmund etc. If I would have read the German translation first, it would probably the other way round, that I'd cringe at the English names.

[Mr Fixit]

I read the English version first, and then I tried the German translation (don't ask me why, it made sense at that point :) ).

The translation is well done, really, but my problem were the names. When you've read five books about Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, King's Landing etc. it's hard to not cringe when you read John Schnee, Theon Graufreud, Königsmund etc. If I would have read the German translation first, it would probably the other way round, that I'd cringe at the English names.

I'm surprised your translators opted to fiddle with personal names. Did they also translate Harry Potter as Harry Hafner? :drunk:

[Queen Alienor]

I'm surprised your translators opted to fiddle with personal names. Did they also translate Harry Potter as Harry Hafner? :drunk:

No, they didn't :) thank god, that would have been an awful read :)

[Anath]

I'm surprised your translators opted to fiddle with personal names. Did they also translate Harry Potter as Harry Hafner? :drunk:

As I said, I am a translator. And in this case, I would "fiddle with personal names" too. Of course, I would be very careful to catch the meaning as close as possible. But there is no way that any translator worth his salt would leave Jon Snow to be Jon Snow. In ASOIAF, last names matter and contain a meaning that is lost, along with the atmosphere, when the translator decides to stick to the text. I think the decision our translator made was a good one - he translated the last names that were tied to a place, like Hornwood, for one. When the last name was just a last name, he left it be.

I have friends who speak French, German, Russian... but not English. As I said, they deserve to read ASOIAF as it would have read, had GRRM written it in their language. And I assure you, he would have not written such alien sounding names when they had something to do with specific places.

Harry Potter has nothing to do with ASOIAF. The mechanism there is very different.

[Atropis the Elf]

I actually, haven't read the greek translation, but having worked as at translator I checkeed the greek translation for some terms ... They sort of worked, but I wasn't too happy with them.

I can tell though that the books would be a bitch to translate. Half the terms about weapons, armor, castles, armor, paritcular breeds of horses outright don't exist and the ones they do would be practically unknown to the general public. Puns that Martin uses often like with the word fool (jester or well, fool) and storm (the weather or invading a castle) don't translate. Names pose a difficulty too. Since many of them are descriptive, the story becomes poorer if they are not translated. You can't do half of them though, because the rest will look pretty weird. The Greatjon and the Smalljon, for instance. If you don't translate the reader will not get what the deal is with these guys, but you can't have a prefix in one language and a name in another. I don't envy the poor bastard.

I skimmed through a chapter of the Greek version of ACoK while in a bookstore. I think the translator had a note at the beginning of the book, claiming that the translation was hard. Concerning names and places, some were translated close to their literal meaning and some remained untouched.

For instance: Blackwater -> Μαυροπόταμος = Blackriver.

Some words like "feast" (=βορά) were given a translation of a rarely used word, which was, however, commonplace in former (ancient!) years.

Some of my friends didn't read the English version, but were satisfied with the translation.

[littleRickon]

The most difficult thing in translation is the difference in basic cultures. In any (good) book there's always allusions to commonly known movies, fairy tales, children books, typical characters, historical persons etc.etc., which is a platform for unspoken things like humor. It's very difficult to make these subtle ideas understandable to any reader unfamiliar with the basics of this particular culture.

However there're also things like technical errors. I remember some time ago Harry Potter books were translated so that the translations of the same name were different in the books, and even in the parts of a same book (the result of a team translation).

That's why I prefer reading English books in English. Trying to learn German too, so if someone can suggest me good German-language writers I'd be appreciated.

There was a sizable craze around Daniel Kehlmann's "Vermessung der Welt". I read it, and found it very informative, engaging, and most importantly entertaining. I later found out that it supposedly isn't all that factually accurate, but that can be remedied by a quick wiki-check after the book. It did, however, firmly anchor Gauss and Humboldt in many people's minds, which is in any case a good educational achievement.

[littleRickon]

As I said, I am a translator. And in this case, I would "fiddle with personal names" too. Of course, I would be very careful to catch the meaning as close as possible. But there is no way that any translator worth his salt would leave Jon Snow to be Jon Snow. In ASOIAF, last names matter and contain a meaning that is lost, along with the atmosphere, when the translator decides to stick to the text. I think the decision our translator made was a good one - he translated the last names that were tied to a place, like Hornwood, for one. When the last name was just a last name, he left it be.

I have friends who speak French, German, Russian... but not English. As I said, they deserve to read ASOIAF as it would have read, had GRRM written it in their language. And I assure you, he would have not written such alien sounding names when they had something to do with specific places.

Harry Potter has nothing to do with ASOIAF. The mechanism there is very different.

(German native speaker here)

They should have gone all the way and made him "Hans Schnee" :)

A problem with translating names and places (I found Beutlin hard to swallow) is that they tend to work differently in German and English. I think that Snow would be a not-too-uncommon name in Britain or US, while a quick search for "Schnee" in th Austria (8 mill people) phone directory turned up less than 20 hits. Names containing Schnee, are much more common, like "Schneeberger" etc. that is more how our names work. Same goes for Stone (how was it translated in German?), "Stein" would be an extremely uncommon name, but "Steiner" is very common. Generally speaking, I think plain substantives are pretty rare in German as names, while it seems more natural (please confirm) in English.

So for Jon, I would have either preferred a composite name containing "Schnee", something reminding me of snow, or an older term for snow, that sounds more like an actual name.

My highest preference, still, would be to leave it as it is, and that is another thing with the German speaking world, almost everybody has a basic understanding of English, it is mandatory in school. They are reacting to that with movie title translations, which used to be terri-bad (sometimes still are), where on-word catchy titles become 10 word plot spoilers (something like "The man who didn't know his daughter survived a car crash"), while nowadays they try to leave the English or just tone down the level ("Bend it like Beckham" became "Kick it lke Beckham", "Miss Congeniality" became "Miss Undercover"). The thing is, most everybody understands the word snow here, you don't have to make it German for people to get the reference. Book translations seem very slow to make that realization.

[Anath]

(German native speaker here)

The thing is, most everybody understands the word snow here, you don't have to make it German for people to get the reference. Book translations seem very slow to make that realization.

No, I'd rather say that people who think of the position of "most everybody understands" don't understand that we aren't allowed to translate for "most everybody". My grandfather is one of the fans of the series and he deserves to have the books translated for him just as much as the bunch of kids who learn English at school. No one should be obliged to have basic understanding of English to enjoy the books to the max. And yes, most people here do have it. It doesn't matter. We have to work as if no one knows what "fine" means.

And your post, in fact, confirm what I wrote - you clearly agree with me that meaningful names should not be left alone. Now, the difference here is the skill of the translator and of course, the specifics of the language. I agree that mechanical translation word for word is just as bad as mechanical copying - and here experience and skills should make the difference. Here, Snow is no name at all. It's just snow with capital letter but it really looks like this isn't the case in German.

All in all, if too many people prefer to read a book, any book in English, it doesn't speak well for the translator. Normally, reading should be easier in one's own language thanks to things like structure of text, idioms, and so on.And ASOIAF would be a trial for any translation.

I hope people will keep writing here. I am very interested.

[Minisa]

imo the problem isn't that they translated the names, the problem is that they were really inconsistent.
Here is a list of names and translations in case anyone is interested: http://de.gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Glossar_der_Personennamen_und_Begriffe
Some examples:
Liddle became Kleyn, because little = klein, so the meaning is preserved and they stayed true to the original style of the names by substituting the i with y.
This is an example of a good translation, but sometimes it seems like the translators didn't understand the original meaning of the names.
The English word stark doesn't have the same meaning as the German word stark. Strong would be stark, but Stark was of course already taken, so the translated Robert Strong to Robert Kraft which means Robert Force/Power/Strength. Still an okay translation I think.
Sometimes they left out the letter e at the end of a word like Ambrose - Ambros or Aurane - Auran to preserve the pronunciation. But sometimes they didn't like with Edmure and Roose. This makes non-english speakers pronounce Roose like Rose and makes it sound a bit ridiculous.
Sometimes only half the word was translated: Casterly Rock - Casterly Stein
And sometimes they changed the names for no reason. Shireen became Sharin. Why not go all the way and make it Scharin. But they could have just gone with Shirin, so people would pronounce it like Shireen...

[The Iron Banker]

Dutch translation is horrible, all the nuance is gone, it sounds childisch and family-like.

The GRRM magic is lost. Just to give one example; 'Littlefinger' is translated as 'pinky'

Even if its well translated, it still sounds very lame in Dutch

[Anath]

Minisa, from what you're describing, I'd venture a guess that the main problem was that they gave the book to someone who lacked the experience and flair to choose a strategy and preserve it without incorporating things that were out of it because... well, the translator didn't understand that they were out.

The things you're describing, they are the marks of too big a push to finish as soon as possible, so not enough time for details... or someone too young and inexperienced for such a monumental project. I really wouldn't give ASOIAF to a translator lacking 10 years in the field. At least 10 years.

And with this, I just proclaimed I couldn't translate it. Well, that's the truth. Right now, I can't.