Stannis Baratheon: Worst Human Rights Abuser in Westeros?

[Florina Laufeyson]

This thread increased my affection for Stannis.

Indeed. Embrace your inner Deeply Horribleness!

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

This my dear Dagon, THIS

And FLorinna, It is natural to be cruel viscous, sadistic and evil. You are right, let us embrace it.

[GallowsKnight]

Oh.Please.

Eadie was being gentle. Stannis is a disloyal coward, content to let his brothers stew amongst the Lannisters while he himself fled to DS. What was he doing there, gathering forces for a whole year? When he could have gone North with Robert, or even met him and Ned at the Trident or sent Davos to KL or tried any of a hundred other ways to warn Ned or either of his brothers.

But he didn't-either because he's a coward or he was counting on Robert dying-take your pick.

We do not have the benefit of Stannis' POV, hence we have little insight on his flight to Dragonstone.

But:

1. He likely thought he was next to die. Jon Arryn had been murdered apparently for discovering the incest. Robert on the other hand was at less risk because he didn't know and it's still in the Lannister interests to keep him alive.

2. He had no evidence (remember it's Jon Arryn who has the ponderous tome) and his accusation are self serving, they make him heir to the throne.

3. He could not know Robert would believe him. Robert had overlooked him as both Warden of the East and Hand of the King. Both would have been signs of trust.

4. He could not know Ned Stark would believe him, he probably had only met him a few times and had no knowledge of Bran's fall, Lysa's letter or the Catspaw.

So what does he do? He bides his time and gathers his power.

Again we have little insight to his motives. But would he really think he could crown himself with 5,000 swords? More likely he was watching to see what Ned did and waiting for a chance to join these forces to Robert's if the incest was discovered or conflict broke out between the houses.

Shucks love, Renly declared before Stannis, while Joff was next in line-he was stealing from his nephew, not his brother.

Besides Stannis'd be a terrible king and you know that.

To take the Throne Renly would have had to step over the corpses of his brother, his two nieces and two nephews.

Either he knew this or was too painfully naive to be King anyway.

[Ahura Mazda]

How can a fictional character abuse some notion of "right" not even conceived from afar within the books?

Also, can anyone please clarify in respect to which view ground should he be judged, and what are the certainly absolute criteria to be used?

E. G. : for some people a religion dictating some rules and behaviours defines a standard, for others religion is subdue to standards.. the difference is like night and day.

[fuem]

Ramsey is the worst .

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

fuem, you are right.

Death to Ramsey and Roose!

Patroclo, you have a good point. This thread needs some more criteria.

[Éadaoin]

Wait a minute.

I know its a last resort by E-Ro, but you're seriously denying that your sig isn't sexist?

Wow.

Wait- do you in all seriousness find this sig offensive? Because I honestly don't; I wouldn't use it as a sig if I thought it genuinely was offensive. It could obviously be labeled as sexist if sexism is simply prejudice. But I suppose if you adhere to the belief that sexism is prejuice + power, then it isn't sexist, and I'd say either way that it's not particularly harmful.

But I'm derailing the thread.

OP I would like to see your list of the others. Your top 5.

Top 5 human rights abusers? I actually am not sure who I'd put in the top 5 because so many characters have deplorable track records when it comes to human rights. And then they all wield different amounts of power, so it would be complicated trying to put them into an exact order tbh. Stannis would be up there obviously, alongside Ramsay and Roose. And Cersei would have to make an appearance, as well.

eta: I guess I should throw in people like Vargo, Gregor, etc, as well, for the hell of it?

[TalalOfDorne]

Snippity snip

Looking for trouble, aren't we Eadie :P ?

I must say I find you and E-Ros hilarious glorious battles concerning Stannis to be very amusing, even if I don't agree with a number of things in this thread (Though I shamefully have to say I like the avatar :leaving: ) .

[Arya kiddin']

I'm a huge Stanfan, but the OP of this thread made me laugh so hard. And "no Stanfans were harmed" part was just epic. Good work. :bowdown:

[Éadaoin]

Looking for trouble, aren't we Eadie :P ?

I must say I find you and E-Ros hilarious glorious battles concerning Stannis to be very amusing, even if I don't agree with a number of things in this thread (Though I shamefully have to say I like the avatar :leaving: ) .

lol, thank you. Unfortunately I can't say that I made it myself.

Stannis is a great character but I think viewing him through this human rights lens can lead to a more nuanced appreciation in general.

I'm a huge Stanfan, but the OP of this thread made me laugh so hard. And "no Stanfans were harmed" part was just epic. Good work. :bowdown:

Thanks, I appreciate it. Though that specific line was E-Ro's doing, to be fair. I have to give credit where credit is due.

[A Man Has Said]

The whole premise of this thread is just wrong on a number of levels.

First, that he's the worst - there are about a dozen characters who are just awful; Tywin, Cersei, Gregor, Amory Lorch, The Tickler, Vargo Hoat, Qyburn,...

Second, that the people of Westeros even have human rights for anyone to abuse. It's a monarchy, and all a monarch is is a hereditary tyrant.

That said, the sun doesn't exactly shine out of Stannis Baratheon's ass either, as some on this forum would have you believe.

I think it would be fairer to place him somewhere in the middle ground.

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

A Man Has Said well and correctly

[fuem]

The whole premise of this thread is just wrong on a number of levels.

First, that he's the worst - there are about a dozen characters who are just awful; Tywin, Cersei, Gregor, Amory Lorch, The Tickler, Vargo Hoat, Qyburn,...

Second, that the people of Westeros even have human rights for anyone to abuse. It's a monarchy, and all a monarch is is a hereditary tyrant.

That said, the sun doesn't exactly shine out of Stannis Baratheon's ass either, as some on this forum would have you believe.

I think it would be fairer to place him somewhere in the middle ground.

This.

[Arya kiddin']

The whole premise of this thread is just wrong on a number of levels.

First, that he's the worst - there are about a dozen characters who are just awful; Tywin, Cersei, Gregor, Amory Lorch, The Tickler, Vargo Hoat, Qyburn,...

Second, that the people of Westeros even have human rights for anyone to abuse. It's a monarchy, and all a monarch is is a hereditary tyrant.

That said, the sun doesn't exactly shine out of Stannis Baratheon's ass either, as some on this forum would have you believe.

I think it would be fairer to place him somewhere in the middle ground.

Nice diplomatic stance as expected of a bipolar bear. Certainly agreeable.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Maester Cresswen hadn't seen Renly since he was six.

Also, Stannis wasn't offering shit-Renly was ahead of Shireen and behind Stannis anyway. Saying yes would invlve Renly losing the Tyrells and his lover and the throne for...what exactly?

Not dying a completely pointless and pathetic death?

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Really? This is always how I know you've run out of valid arguments-- you resort to this nonsense. I'm going to go reply to some of the actual thoughtful, insightful replies now, tbh.

His comment was as valid as your nonsense about Stannis committing a hate crime. Embarrassing reach, that.

[Sansa_Stark]

Wait- do you in all seriousness find this sig offensive? Because I honestly don't; I wouldn't use it as a sig if I thought it genuinely was offensive. It could obviously be labeled as sexist if sexism is simply prejudice. But I suppose if you adhere to the belief that sexism is prejuice + power, then it isn't sexist, and I'd say either way that it's not particularly harmful.

But I'm derailing the thread.\

What is power?

If one can convince others that making negative comments about men is only sexist if there is power behind, isn't that power itself?

If men make negative comments about women, do you automatically label it sexism because of a supposed "power difference?"

I would imagine, the fact that you can get away with a sexist sig, while men would generally get lambasted for making a similar comment, is power itself.

Sexism is sexism. Don't try to bring this power balance argument into this.

[Éadaoin]

His comment was as valid as your nonsense about Stannis committing a hate crime. Embarrassing reach, that.

?? I definitely was careful to state that I wasn't labeling anything as a hate crime. Though this insightful comment actually made me think-

All I have to say is, I like your new avatar, Stannis needs to create his own rainbow guard and ride Rainbow Dash into battle

I always wondered if Stannis was jealous of Renly. Perhaps I was admittedly too quick to label it as an anti-gay agenda.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

This has to be one of the most indecisive and divisive thread. OP's conclusion were extremely generic i:e Worst human right abuser, i mean its a monarchy and surely he is not the worst human rights abuser, i mean he is one of the better person in westeros, and your stan-hatred in clearly evident in your conclusion, and the thread responses were pretty much off-topic barring a few.
Yes OP i also find the sig sexist, sorry if i offend you by saying that.

What is power?

If one can convince others that making negative comments about men is only sexist if there is power behind, isn't that power itself?

If men make negative comments about women, do you automatically label it sexism because of a supposed "power difference?"

I would imagine, the fact that you can get away with a sexist sig, while men would generally get lambasted for making a similar comment, is power itself.

Sexism is sexism. Don't try to bring this power balance argument into this.

This.

[Rhymes with Weak]

The Anti-Stans seem to be running out of ideas.