The Great and Mighty Poo Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Interesting notion, if convinced about more dragon eggs in the world as well, but I dont think they will come into play in this series, maybe stand alone novels later onSame here I believe he is seeing dragon eggs but I don't think we will see them besides being mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I personally believe Bran was seeing Quaithe in Asshai at that time, who "stirred" because of impending events (dragon hatching) drawing near. And I do believe Quaithe is Shierra Seastar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Something caught my ear as I was re-listening to ACOK. When Dany is in Qarth, people come to see her dragons and give her gifts in return. One of things that was mentioned was dragonglass "out of Asshai". This isn't evidence of anything, but could be that there's volcanic activity in Asshai, which results to them having dragonglass. And there is some reason to think dragons love to reside in volcanic areas. Of course, "out of Asshai" could very well mean that it just came "from the way of Asshai" or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Banker Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Something caught my ear as I was re-listening to ACOK. When Dany is in Qarth, people come to see her dragons and give her gifts in return. One of things that was mentioned was dragonglass "out of Asshai". This isn't evidence of anything, but could be that there's volcanic activity in Asshai, which results to them having dragonglass. And there is some reason to think dragons love to reside in volcanic areas. Of course, "out of Asshai" could very well mean that it just came "from the way of Asshai" or something. Very farfetched, but that doesnt mean that it is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Doesn't exist in asoiaf. Or if it does, then let's argue every single word in the series that isn't dialog or internal thoughts, but hey, unreliable pov, so then we can't trust anything really.Neither extreme is helpful. You have to consider the context, the character' knowledge & bias and what the auther wants is to believe at a certain point in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Ahai Reborn Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Sansa. Repeatedly "remembers" kissing Sandor when it never happened. Also, GRRM says he uses unreliable narrators. Yes, there are unreliable POVs and their narration. I said that. But the "and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons" is not something Dany is narrating. It is something GRRM is narrating. Neither extreme is helpful. You have to consider the context, the character' knowledge & bias and what the auther wants is to believe at a certain point in the story. Yeah, I understand that. But it isn't the character narrating that part, so it is not based on the character's knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Yes, there are unreliable POVs and their narration. I said that. But the "and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons" is not something Dany is narrating. It is something GRRM is narrating. Yeah, I understand that. But it isn't the character narrating that part, so it is not based on the character's knowledge. I completely agree with you, I was going to type this. Unreliable narrators are the character POV's. The final line in aGoT shifts from POV to impartial narrator. This is not within the boundaries of the unrelaible narrator like the unkiss, there's no room for comparison at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 And I do believe Quaithe is Shierra Seastar. I think Dany would have noticed the mismatched eyes. Theory has no basis IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Yes, there are unreliable POVs and their narration. I said that. But the "and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons" is not something Dany is narrating. It is something GRRM is narrating. Yeah, I understand that. But it isn't the character narrating that part, so it is not based on the character's knowledge.I meant in general. Thanks for getting past those typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Yes, there are unreliable POVs and their narration. I said that. But the "and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons" is not something Dany is narrating. It is something GRRM is narrating. Yeah, I understand that. But it isn't the character narrating that part, so it is not based on the character's knowledge. Just so. GRRM clearly wants us to know that dragons have returned to the world for the first time in a long while. As yolkboy said, there is reason to believe Bran's vision is not linear. I also think it possible the stirring dragons refer to dragons in eggs. iirc, Dany's dragons are described as stirring in their eggs when she begins to sense them. (eta- "deep in the stone she felt something stretch and twist in response." Not stirring exactly, but close ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal9 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Maybe he saw dragons. But he wouldn't know about Asshai. How would Bran even know what he is looking at? (In regards to the landmarks) he's never actually seen these places. Maybe heard of them, or taught about them, but idk how much. The descriptions of what he sees seems to be a narrative description of the landmarks, not a fan actually understanding or recognizing what he is seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Maybe he saw dragons. But he wouldn't know about Asshai. How would Bran even know what he is looking at? (In regards to the landmarks) he's never actually seen these places. Maybe heard of them, or taught about them, but idk how much.The descriptions of what he sees seems to be a narrative description of the landmarks, not a fan actually understanding or recognizing what he is seeing. Hmm, my guess would be that since BR was on the driver's seat, he was feeding that info to Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Maybe he saw dragons. But he wouldn't know about Asshai. How would Bran even know what he is looking at? (In regards to the landmarks) he's never actually seen these places. Maybe heard of them, or taught about them, but idk how much. The descriptions of what he sees seems to be a narrative description of the landmarks, not a fan actually understanding or recognizing what he is seeing.Maybe the vision as related was not intended by author as a relation by BR to Bran but as a hint to us that the dragons were coming back? Similarly, I don't think shaddows of the wolf and the burning man that Dany saw in the tent dancing with MMD were literal visions nut a very subtle hint at R+L=J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It wasn't Dany thinking that that was the first time dragon's voices had been heard in a while, that was GRRM speaking. He does this a lot, there are the characters voices, Dany or Mormont or whoever, and then the narrator of the story, GRRM. That was a narrator moment and thus we must believe it to be true. I do not think there were dragons in Asshai, or were not at the time, because of that one sentence, but also because it seems to be too big of a draw in the next book where is Asshai had them already the impact would have been lessened. Yes its a hard place to get to but traders and the like were walking around saying, oh ya, I saw one before when I was in Asshai, big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Visenya Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Here's hoping they come and scorch the citadel :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Roast Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I think it's been made clear dragons were completely extinct. Not really. I think there is room for doubt about that notion. We do not have a complete list of all dragons (wild and domesticated) and I don't think the fate of all known dragons is known. I think the world is just too big to claim that dragons are "completely extinct". If I was answering the Kindly Man, I would rephrase that as "most people agree that dragons are extinct", At least that was the consensus before Dany hatch her dragons. And yet,t there were rumors of dragons in Asshai by the Shadow and Bran did see them in his vision. So I think there could be dragons in Asshai. After all, the folks in the books who claim that dragons are extinct are the same folks who do not believe in Old Nan's stories, The Others, the CotF and many other so-called snarks and grumpkins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 After all, the folks in the books who claim that dragons are extinct are the same folks who do not believe in Old Nan's stories, The Others, the CotF and many other so-called snarks and grumpkins...What of the voice of the omniscient narrator who said "for the first time in hundreds of years..."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Roast Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 What of the voice of the omniscient narrator who said "for the first time in hundreds of years..."? The way these books are written, that voice operates in the restrictions of the POV character. According to the Targ legends that Dany had grown up with, it HAD been hundreds of years since the last dragon flew. The family had been trying to hatch a new one ever since. That line is completely in sync with her POV, but that does not mean it would be in sync or even true with all other characters and what they know. The fact that every POV is a sometimes unreliable narrator helps to make the books so much fun and leaves so much to puzzle out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I think Dany would have noticed the mismatched eyes. Theory has no basis IMO. I don't know, the eye color has not been mentioned at all. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Banker Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Here's hoping they come and scorch the citadel :D. Your avatar matches perfectly with that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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