Cas Stark Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Readers expect Sansa to assert herself, triumph over Littlefinger, and help save the day. Ergo George will kill her off. (I say that half-jokingly, but George is known for writing shocking death scenes. Imagine the irony of following Sansa for so many books while she's been in hiding, presumably to be unveiled at some point, but then is simply quietly killed off, no one aware of whatever happened to her) I've thought of that, too. GRRM will leave some bad guys alive, because he clearly hates noble good guys, LF, being smart and not having an agenda beyond his own wellbeing would seem a good candidate to outlive everyone including Varys....but that would mean Sansa in the Vale as his protege netted nothing really if LF is alive at the end of the series, so you assume she will be the cause of his demise, but then, that is so obvious, he may do a switch up. Or, again, some things are obvious because they're obvious, everything can' be the opposite of what the evidence indicates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiriki Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I've thought of that, too. GRRM will leave some bad guys alive, because he clearly hates noble good guys, LF, being smart and not having an agenda beyond his own wellbeing would seem a good candidate to outlive everyone including Varys....but that would mean Sansa in the Vale as his protege netted nothing really if LF is alive at the end of the series, so you assume she will be the cause of his demise, but then, that is so obvious, he may do a switch up. Or, again, some things are obvious because they're obvious, everything can' be the opposite of what the evidence indicates. Good point: there are bound to be bad folks left at the end of the series (if anyone's left alive). One of the central themes of this series has been 'nice guys finish last', a theme which occurs time and time again, starting with the death of Lady in AGOT. And Littlefinger, like an eel, has slipped through everything using his wiles and cunning. But he may have underestimated a maturing Sansa. But George may anticipate us thinking LF underestimated Sansa. But I anticipated George anticipating us thinking LF underestimated Sansa. So, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 If Sansa does take control of the Vale, I always assumed her moves would depend a lot on her knowledge of whether Jon or Rickon were alive. I do think her main aim would be to get the North back for the Starks. Not sure though how it would all go down. And no I don't think Sansa would be taking the field as battle commander. Just not her thing. However, I think she might be able to acquire some able battle commanders that would be loyal to her. Perhaps the Blackfish or one of the Royces or Sandor? There maybe others. Commanding battles isn't one of her known strengths yes, but we have yet to see her try. The odds of her doing this is unlikely, and her personality doesn't seem to fit the description implied in the OP. Bronze Yohn, however, would be quite good at this, provided that Sansa has his loyalty. (Probably not a very hard thing to get) Queen of the North. I don't see Sansa as a "Player" so much as a person that learned to spot the tricks. I think of her in the future as a ruler like Ned. Still honorable and straight, only politically savvy and not so naive. Queen in the North, by the way. While much of us would like this, it's not in the realm of possibilities whilst Rickon, Bran, and Jon live. I agree that Sansa will behave like a perfected Ned though. Readers expect Sansa to assert herself, triumph over Littlefinger, and help save the day. Ergo George will kill her off. (I say that half-jokingly, but George is known for writing shocking death scenes. Imagine the irony of following Sansa for so many books while she's been in hiding, presumably to be unveiled at some point, but then is simply quietly killed off, no one aware of whatever happened to her) That thought has crossed my mind before. Not a pleasant one, and may trigger a nervous breakdown. Possibly. Consider that all the shocking deaths were foreshadowed and logical, which is something that doesn't apply in this scenario. Assuming that Sansa manages to gain control of the Vale, I don't think she would have reason to want the Iron Throne, nor would she want anything south of the river lands. That's not how she thinks, and that doesn't really fit her character development. If she wants to do things that way, the direction is north, not south. And that's assuming that Rickon somehow becomes irrelevant, which isn't very likely. There isn't really any way of accurately predicting this because her arc can go in so many directions after AFfC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiriki Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Queen in the North, by the way. While much of us would like this, it's not in the realm of possibilities whilst Rickon, Bran, and Jon live. Rickon and Bran are thought to be dead, and Jon is/will be soon. And even though Bran's not dead, he's in... well, frankly, no condition to rule. That thought has crossed my mind before. Not a pleasant one, and may trigger a nervous breakdown. Possibly. Consider that all the shocking deaths were foreshadowed and logical, which is something that doesn't apply in this scenario. Oh, I think if it were to happen, we could find all sorts of foreshadowing (intended or otherwise). I'm not saying I want it to happen (I don't! I've grown to really like Sansa); I'm just saying there's always the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Bodica isn't Sansa's calling, she's learning politics most notably how alliances are made via good and not so good methods no Starks want the IT, none. I see Sansa as the person who get the alliances needed to defend Westeros and because of that also help bring back House Stark. The only one I see with any kind of southern agenda would be Arya and it won't be to gain the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 LF wants to off Robin and bring in Harry the Heir. I think it would be an interesting, if unlikely, twist if Sansa killed Harry to protect Robin. It's probably a ways off but I agree with many who can see her consolidating alliances - Jon and his people at the Wall, Rickon and Winterfell once Davos brings him home from Skagos + the rest of the North, the Blackfish in the Riverlands, the mountain clans through her marriage to Tyrion, and the rest of her people in the Vale. Perhaps the Mad Mouse could be of use. I think Sandor will be busy in King's Landing fighting for the Faith. As an aside. it was implied that one of the Burned Men, perhaps Timett soT himself, could actually be ahead of Harry in the line of succession and I would find it amusing if that paid off in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Interesting thread, OP, but as Free Northman Reborn noted, you seem to assume Sansa's conquests will happen in a "vacuum" - without any kind of interference from other important contenders. You offhandedly mention "dealing" with Stannis and Dany, while not considering Aegon's and Euron's plans at all. Surely some of them will contest territories Sansa's is to conquer. Second problem is Sansa's personality and abilities - even if she had the knowledge and skill to lead war campaign, I doubt she would have the will. She's not power-hungry by any stretch of imagination, and I can't imagine her leading devastating war just to seat herself on the IT. That's something Cersei would do, not Sansa. However, if she gains control of Vale's army, and if she intends to use it (two big ifs), only possible destination I could imagine her going to - is North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blugenes Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sansa is the political glue of the coming alliance against the Others. Almost everyone can deal with her, from Tyrells to Lannisters and Starks to Baratheons. Dorne would probably respect her and the Iron Islands respect, well, no one. Unless the Others have figured out how to build ice ships and invade the Islands directly via the Frozen Shore. I suspect she lives but not with a rosy ending, Littlefinger has plans for her but she is the plot device that will be his ending, maybe in the epilogue. Personally I'd love to see Brienne of Tarth or Stoneheart deal with Littlefinger but somehow it seems Sansa is being set up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Commanding battles isn't one of her known strengths yes, but we have yet to see her try. The odds of her doing this is unlikely, and her personality doesn't seem to fit the description implied in the OP. Bronze Yohn, however, would be quite good at this, provided that Sansa has his loyalty. (Probably not a very hard thing to get) Yeah, I didn't mean to come off as dogging Sansa because I do like her. And I am hoping she will do something big. So, I wouldn't say she wouldn't be incapable of learning how to manage a war. I think she is smarter than some people give her credit for. But, I see her being more of a Bismarck type. So perhaps Bronze Yohn or somebody else will be her Moltke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiriki Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sansa has neither the training nor the advisor to command an army. Nor has she ever indicated that she has that particular skill set. And the Eyrie, while defendable, is not strategically located, being in an isolated Vale. I doubt her part in the story will have much to do with war plans. That's just not in her character: she's not Danerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I don't expect her to lead an army at all. Her talent would be in forging political alliances. Someone else (Bronze Yohn is mentioned often) could lead the actual armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand old duke of stark Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I agree--Sansa is not militarily-inclined. Nor is she a strategic thinker. If she knows (I don't recall) or finds out that Jon is LC of the NW, she might send a raven and explain her position and ask his advice. If the Blackfish is involved in her gaining power (as has been posited previously on the forum), she will ask his advice. One other thing--if Littlefinger isn't already dead by the time she comes into power, she'll have to decide what to do about him. At the very least, I think she'll have him arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Not directly, but Robin is basically wrapped around her finger, even calling her his new mother, and if Littlefinger were to be overthrown by her, as many suspect will happen, she becomes Robin's Lady Protector and can manipulate him to her own designs. Seriously, all she would have to do is charm the kid a bit and he'd sign any declaration she puts in front of him. This is probably the reason we have this kid at all in the story, so Sansa will have someone young and naive enough in a position of power to use to her advantage. While I agree that Sansa can have Sweetrobin in the palm of her hand I don't think she would have the slightest idea of what to do with that power. At least not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Sansa hasn't acknowledged that Joff is a bastard yet has she? She's even heard the accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I agree-- Sansa is not militarily-inclined. Nor is she a strategic thinker. If she knows (I don't recall) or finds out that Jon is LC of the NW, she might send a raven and explain her position and ask his advice. If the Blackfish is involved in her gaining power (as has been posited previously on the forum), she will ask his advice. One other thing--if Littlefinger isn't already dead by the time she comes into power, she'll have to decide what to do about him. At the very least, I think she'll have him arrested. Speaking of handling Littlefinger, my advice is to do it the old way. And yes, according to the Hound, everyone is a killer. I think LF has a pretty good shot of keeping himself alive in dire circumstances, so this scenario isn't unlikely. Assuming that she doesn't follow the footsteps of everyone else who trusted Lord Baelish, then she would have the neccesary skills required to unite the people neccessary to accomplish her (unclear) objectives. Sansa doesn't appear to be a good commander, but like I said, I don't believe she has tried. Yet. Sansa hasn't acknowledged that Joff is a bastard yet has she? She's even heard the accusations. I don't think this is really relevant anymore considering that Joffrey has been dead for a while, and is the least of Sansa's problems. Does she really care, though? An asshole is still an asshole regardless of heritage; it makes no difference. And like everyone else has said (including me), Sansa doesn't want to do anything in the south whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Howell Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Exactly. She doesn't give a damn about the Iron Throne, (in fact I think as far as she's concerned if she never steps foot in KL again it will be too soon, and succession games are just awful,) but she will care about a horrific threat like the Others and what it means especially to the North. I think Sansa's primary object will be to go North, to team up with Jon-hopefully, with some Vale forces in tow. Yes, but do you really think that after she resurfaces that Cersei isn't going to do everything in her power to destroy her, by basically starting another war, this one specifically to wipe out Sansa and any ally of hers, plus her brothers if she reunited with them at the Wall. A smart person would take out the massive threat of Mad Queen Cersei in the south first, otherwise taking over the North will be even harder. And her taking over the south would be less about wanting the throne itself and really just eliminating threats. Even with the threat of the Others, do you really think people in the South would take the threat seriously? They think it's all just a bunch of fairy tale nonsense, and Cersei would never dare side with Jon, Stannis, or Sansa (especially Sansa, it seems). On the matter of military strategy. I never said Sansa would plan every battle herself, but gave generalized movements that even a teenage girl could come up with if they thought things through. Considering I'm a 15 year old who had zero military experience and I could come up with a somewhat logical plan for going about neutralizing Sansa's greatest threat to her survival in the South, Cersei, I'm pretty sure someone smart like Sansa could come up with the same general ideas and then set military commanders to do all the detailing of it. Such as battle strategy. And remember what her brother's downfall was. Robb was a great military strategist, but his political savvy was less than ideal for a ruler. He was far too trusting and honorable, like his father. Fortunately for Sansa, she's had most of her trusting nature towards honor beaten out of her in one of the most horrendous trauma-conga-lines/Breaking of the Cutie ever. With a better grasp on politics than her brother, as well as a less trusty nature and less faith in honor, could do well on the political front of warfare (which is half the battle: war is just as much about politics as fighting). I don't think it would be that hard for Sansa to wage a war. Plenty of leaders in our own world haven't been great warrior king strategists, but they still went on to win wars smartly and do a decent job of leading the efforts. Though, Sansa, like them, would do well to have a wise counsel. Also, if Sansa doesn't become a player in the game, I will be pissed. I did not read five books of this girl being crushed emotionally, pyschology, and at times physically just to see her do nothing but remain a pawn. It would make her entire story arch utterly useless and if that is the path it is meant to go down, then GRRM shouldn't have had it in the books at all. It would become a waste of paper. Also, Sweetrobin is definitely there for more than to just die. I doubt the Harry the Heir plan of LF's is really what he's planning, as he is a man with a million tricks and plot twists up his sleeve, so he probably has something else in the works. Sansa becoming the puppet master of Sweetrobin is probably the easiest way for her to climb to power and frankly, many people would be very surprised by it because it seems over half the fandom is willing to take Littlefinger's word on what his plans are at face value. I don't think people give Sansa enough credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 i BELIEVE IT WILL TAKE 3/4 OF THE NEXT BOOK FOR sANSA TO BE PREPARED, for her take over of the vale. After this time more than likely Aegon will be defeated and exposed, Tyrion will show up him and Sansa will take his current existing relationship with the hILL TRIBES. Take Tyrions enlisted mercenary group, the vale hill tribes, and one of the dragons he will more than likely steal and then move from the vale all the way to casterly rock like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamSongs Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Whatever she does, she will need military commanders--Bronze Yohn and the Blackfish are top picks that she is likely to run into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Her next move is figuring out how to keep Robin from latching onto her breast with one hand while holding a lemon cake in the other. :lmao: Congratulations. You win one lemon cake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Yes, but do you really think that after she resurfaces that Cersei isn't going to do everything in her power to destroy her, by basically starting another war, this one specifically to wipe out Sansa and any ally of hers, plus her brothers if she reunited with them at the Wall. A smart person would take out the massive threat of Mad Queen Cersei in the south first, otherwise taking over the North will be even harder. And her taking over the south would be less about wanting the throne itself and really just eliminating threats. Even with the threat of the Others, do you really think people in the South would take the threat seriously? They think it's all just a bunch of fairy tale nonsense, and Cersei would never dare side with Jon, Stannis, or Sansa (especially Sansa, it seems). I think this all really depends on the military forces Cersei is likely to have at her disposal and what other enemies she is having to face. For some reason, I am just not seeing Cersei having the kind forces to invade the Vale, which is probably highly defensible given its terrain and the bad weather. Also, I am not sure taking the Vale's 20,000 troops South is the best move, particularly when particular factions in the South are destroying each other. It seems that a few thousand troops would be more decisive in the North. I am not sure though. GRRM will have to give us a little more information, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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