The "Malazan Book of the Fallen" thread.

[pat5150]

Well, this is consistent with what I posted on malazanempire.com last month, based on the email I had received from SE's publicist.

Definitely something to look forward to! Now, I simply have to find a way to get my hands on a REAPER'S GALE galley!

Patrick

[Doppelganger]

I just finished House of Chains. I can't say it was entirely enjoyable, but it wasn't necessarily bad. I seemed to lose interest in the whole Tavore/Felisin thing really quickly, and started to pay more interest to the sub plots, which I guess is a bit of a shame.

I'd give it 3 out of 5 stars or cookies, or whatever.

Also, what the hell was Kalam's role in that novel? I sort of lost track after a while.

And, what did Korbolo Dom want to achieve?

I'm sure the answers were presented to me, but I guess I just skipped a few too many paragraphs.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to starting Midnight Tides some time soon.

[Werthead]

House of Chains was pretty weak, although I enormously enjoyed Karsa's chapter.

Korbolo Dom's plots continue to unfold alongside those of some characters from Deadhouse Gates in The Bonehunters. I think Kalam was hanging around in preperation for his more central role in, again, The Bonehunters.

Midnight Tides is pretty good, better than the books on either side of it.

[aergern]

Anyway, I'm looking forward to starting Midnight Tides some time soon.

I found that Midnight Tides has been the most enjoyable of the series so far .. at least for me anyway. I can't wait for Reaper's Gale because it brings most of the MT characters into the present.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

I'm re-reading MT, and it's a pretty great stand-alone novel by itself...though one of the major reasons I really like MBotF is the gigantic character arcs that go on through most of the novels, MT shines really well. The Bonehunters, while it has some great scenes and some plot advancement (it took a while for most of these characters), is not quite as good as the complete package of MT.

[aergern]

I'm re-reading MT, and it's a pretty great stand-alone novel by itself...though one of the major reasons I really like MBotF is the gigantic character arcs that go on through most of the novels, MT shines really well. The Bonehunters, while it has some great scenes and some plot advancement (it took a while for most of these characters), is not quite as good as the complete package of MT.

My issue with Bonehunters was that it was about 650 pages to long for what actually happened in the book. It was all over the map. The last 200 pages rocked .. but the first 80% was a real let down after reading MT.

[saint777]

I actually find that the nickname-style monickers of the marines makes it much easier to tell who is who - if they were all called Aghelbard and Thorthelorth it'd be much more difficult... with the non-soldier characters he does like to have names beginning with K, though, and sometimes I get confused between Korlat, K'rul, Kallor, Kruppe, Keruli and the other one in the Bonehunters (Kellar? Karlot?)... As for distinguishing gender, I think a lot of the point is that the soldiers are supposed to be equal so there's no reason to make the gender obvious, unless there is a particular plot point to be made by it.

Even worse Cuttle, Cutter, and Curdle. I just discovered this thread so I might be responding to some ancient posts.

[Jerol]

My issue with Bonehunters was that it was about 650 pages to long for what actually happened in the book. It was all over the map. The last 200 pages rocked .. but the first 80% was a real let down after reading MT.

I agree that the last 200 pages of Bonehunters was where it got down to business. But the whole escape from the burnt city chapter might still be one of the most harrowing things Erikson has ever written.

[aergern]

Even worse Cuttle, Cutter, and Curdle. I just discovered this thread so I might be responding to some ancient posts.

Much like all the really important women in Superman's life had the LL motif going on. It's not so bad anymore .. but in the 40's, 50's and 60's it was HORRIBLE. ;D

[saint777]

An update on my last post about the books.

I've finished:

House of Chains: Loved the 250 page Karsa prologue. I mean c'mon he attacks an entire town with only two other warriors. He is a mesh of Conan and Guts from Berserk. The rest of the novel is solid particularly anything with Kalam and Felisin.

Midnight Tides: Tehol and Bugg. Awesome. I could read a thousand page tome with just these two guys bantering back and forth. Also liked Brys but he doesn't get enough screen time. Hated with a passion the Udinaas/Feather Witch storyline. Another solid novel in the series.

Blood Follows: This one was OK. But nothing compared to:

The Healthy Dead: Page for page the best book Erikson has written in the Malazan Universe. This fucker goes off like a chinese firecracker. In turns hilarious, outrageous and downright badass. An adrenaline shot to the soul. His masterpiece.

The Bonehunters: 125 pages in and I'm hooked. Karsa kicks. Quick Ben and Kalam kicks. Even Apsalar and her two ghost friends are fun. Karsa's fight with the demon in Moravahl Keep is the standout so far. "I think he's raping someone."

[Doppelganger]

Actually, the real problem I had with House of Chains, was I kept forgetting which character was on which side.

There would be too many names which were similar or too many names starting with the same letter that would always throw me off. I'd be asking "Who's this guy again?... is that a girl?..." etc etc.

[Errant Bard]

I found House of Chains to be severely lacking when it came to the "official" Malazans, even Fiddler had a hard time fleshing out the sorry army that is the 14th. Tavore is non-existant, her officers are unmemorable and the wickans hardly appear. You never get any sense of purpose from them. For what it's worth, if there hadn't been any malazan bits and they just showed at the end, it would have been the same.

I was also sorely disappointed by the end of sha-ik's story. It was like SE didn't know what to do after using her to develop Karsa's character and the Kurald Emurlahn tangle, so he sweeped her under the carpet. You can almost hear the voice of god saying "I don't need you anymore so now don't do anything with your power and go suicide".

For Midnight Tides, I liked it, even though it drags on in the beginning. I felt indifferent to the slaves, but Bugg, the Beddicts, and Trull and Rhulad toward the end, along with the whole underlying CG plotting really made the book, and the minor appearance of other characters really integrate well into the mix. A shame it takes so long to begin being interesting, as always.

[Azmure]

I really didn't like House of Chains. In fact for me it's the standout of the series for the simple fact of being so far below the standard of the other books. The structure of the book is horrible, as is the pacing, with so many pages devoted to so little actually happening. I'm not a big fan of Karsa (he improves in The Bonehunters, but only marginally) but at least his prologue has some kind of constant forward momentum pushing the plot. By Part Two everything grinds to a halt, and we get page after page after sorry page of soul-searching and hair-tearing in the Dogslayer camp, or page after page of forgettable talking and marching in the Malazan camp. Blech.

The only small saving grace in the book is the interlude on Drift Avalii (sp?) which was very well written and interesting, and perhaps some of Trull's storyline (the scene with the Otataral dragon is forever imprinted on my mind). Other than these scenes, the book would probably get no more than a 2 or 2.5 out of 5 from me.

Midnight Tides on the other hand is a real return to form for Erikson. It's funny, moving, full of great set pieces, and as has been mentioned on this thread already it also stands up very well as a stand-alone novel. It lacks the real punch-in-the-guts emotional impact of Deadhouse Gates or Memories of Ice, but it makes up for this in other areas. Plus it was nice to see a whole new cast of characters (no faceless, interchangeable Malazan grunts or faceless, interchangeable tribal warriors) and a new take on the whole Deck of Dragons thing.

Bring on Reaper's Gale!

[Baleran Cole]

Greetings,

I've just finished the first book of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series.

I'd would like to know if it get betters. I've found it quite bad on many things. But since some people on this board seem to find this saga pretty good, I may have overreacted of the first book issues.

What I did not like in the first book:

-The rules of the world seem to change at every page. Or I should say that we discover them one by one but it seems to me that the rules are not consitent and rather serves the plot (reminds me of my first rpg plots)

- I find that the rules of magic are not very well explained.

- Too much Chance factors used in the story. Ok the gods of Chance are involved but I find it's an easy trick to achieve plots.

- Few characters developpment which lead to incoherent decisions and total change of obedience in the blink of an eye. I find that quite frustrating. Example: The members of the Claw.

Well I think it's all I have for now.

Thanks for your answers and sorry for my poor english.

Edit: thanks for the quick answers. I had pushed enter before completing my post.

[Kalbear]

Erikson's Malazen Book of the FallenEmpire Saga, Does it get better ?

No.

Okay, that's a lie. DHG is a good book. The rest of the series...well, if you didn't like the first one, chances are you won't like a lot of the rest either. At least judging from the general responses. I'd recommend trying the second book and seeing if it grabs you or not; if it doesn't, move on, because the books are long and poorly-edited, and really take a lot of time to get into.

[Jagged]

Greetings,

I've juste finished the first book of the Malazan Empire series

Yes, yes it does. The second book is so much better and less confusing. The Chain of Dogs story arc is my favorite in the entire series. Also in the second book the world and history slowly start to become clear. It does get better I urge you not to stop at the first book.

[Kalbear]

-The rules of the world seem to change at every page. Or I should say that we discover them one by one but it seems to me that the rules are not consitent and rather serves the plot (reminds me of my first rpg plots)

- I find that the rules of magic are not very well explained.

- Too much Chance factors used in the story. Ok the gods of Chance are involved but I find it's an easy trick to achieve plots.

- Few characters developpment which lead to incoherent decisions and total change of obedience in the blink of an eye. I find that quite frustrating. Example: The members of the Claw.

Really, none of these things change or are particularly different except in the second book. Chance and fate play a huge role in how the world revolves, magic is almost never explained in any useful way, characters have very little...character and the rules are changing all the time. Godlike powers abound everywhere, and gods frequently interfere to make the story work.

It's an interesting world, but all of those things that you mention do not change...with the exception of Deadhouse Gates, which has good character building, decent rules, and stays within narrative scope for the most part without freaking out too much.

[GardenGnome]

Yes, gods interfere, but that is only logical, given how the pantheon works, and so on.

GoTM has a lot of inconsistencies with the later books, especially regarding magic. It is never fully explained, though I think that applies to most fantasy. You do get a feel of the systems however.

As for the rules of the world: can you give an example? I'm not certain what you mean, but I suspect it's a GoTM problem, as I haven't noticed it...

[RaceBannon42]

It does not get better IMO. I was unimpressed with GoTM , and my opinion of DHG was pretty much the same. I've only read the 1st 2 books, but thats giving Erikson about over 100 pages to get me to like his work. I havent felt like givinh him more. Plenty of folks do think he gets a lot better though so ymmv.

[Jagged]

He is kinda like Bakker in that you usually either really like the series or you hate it.

I would say read DHG and if you still don't like it then It's not the series for you.