Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 There's a huge difference between "not doing the perfect thing at every turn" and "being a multiple murderer and a big time jerk whose main source of pleasure in life is mocking people savagely and laughing at their misery". Yes because that is what Tyrion does, solely for his pleasure, you know his character SO well. He's just a mean jerk. Let's see what GRRM has to say about that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Force implies coercion. Tyrion had three choices. Sansa, Lollys, or no wife at all. None of the choices were good. He wanted none of them. But he was forced to choose one. Out of all those choices, marrying Sansa was probably the least undesirable to him.Tyrion was not actively pursing Sansa. Tyrion didn't come up with the idea. His dad put the screws to him. That's coercion. That's force.Then you need to wonder who Sansa would probably have been married off to if Tyrion hadn't agreed to marry her. See me, personally, I'd say that someone who chooses "marry twelve year old girl who hates me" over "stay single for life" was a selfish asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 See me, personally, I'd say that someone who chooses "marry twelve year old girl who hates me" over "stay single for life" was a selfish asshole. I'm sorry but, THIS IS WESTEROS! Marrying 12 year olds isn't that big of a deal, it happens all the time, and she would be married of anyway. Of course there is a bit of selfishness in it for Tyrion, excuse him for being human and wanting good things for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 See me, personally, I'd say that someone who chooses "marry twelve year old girl who hates me" over "stay single for life" was a selfish asshole. Then you can call me a selfish asshole. I don't mind. In Tyrion's shoes, I would rather marry a 12 year old girl who hates me over staying single for life. Just too bad I'm not a sexy looking prince like Joffrey, eh? Maybe if I kill a couple of butcher's boys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm sorry but, THIS IS WESTEROS! Marrying 12 year olds isn't that big of a deal, it happens all the time, and she would be married of anyway. Of course there is a bit of selfishness in it for Tyrion, excuse him for being human and wanting good things for himself. Tyrion did not just pick out the choicest furs from a plundered Winterfell here, the "good thing" he wanted was a twelve year old hostage. He wanted to marry her against her will, after his family destroyed hers. These are not the actions of a good person. Tyrion is a well written character but an awful person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Then you can call me a selfish asshole. I don't mind. In Tyrion's shoes, I would rather marry a 12 year old girl who hates me over staying single for life. Just too bad I'm not a sexy looking prince like Joffrey, eh? Maybe if I kill a couple of butcher's boys... :stillsick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Tyrion did not just pick out the choicest furs from a plundered Winterfell here, the "good thing" he wanted was a twelve year old hostage. He wanted to marry her against her will, after his family destroyed hers. These are not the actions of a good person. Tyrion is a well written character but an awful person. You seem to be very quick to judge people as "evil" I wonder (and this has nothing to do with the topic), are you pro death sentence? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I find it kind of hilarious that it's controversial at all pointing out that a multiple murderer who broke Marillion's fingers with glee because the singer sang sarcastic songs about him, who worked tirelessly to keep a sadistic psycho on the throne, who broke and humiliated Pycelle for doing his job as he was supposed to (Cersei was the Queen Regent and higher ranked than Tyrion), who sent a 100 men on a mission with an extremely small chance of success (freeing Jaime) and never gave them a second though when they didn't return as expected, who blackmailed his own 16 year old cousin to get a minor advantage on his sister while thinking it would lead to his death, who let Tymett the murderer walk free, who planned to turn the Vale into a wasteland because he was mad at Lysa, is a terrible person. And I haven't even included the ADWD stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You seem to be very quick to judge people as "evil" I wonder (and this has nothing to do with the topic), are you pro death sentence? Just curious. funny how WK never labeled him evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I find it kind of hilarious that it's controversial at all pointing out that a multiple murderer who broke Marillion's fingers with glee because the singer sang sarcastic songs about him, who worked tirelessly to keep a sadistic psycho on the throne, who broke and humiliated Pycelle for doing his job as he was supposed to (Cersei was the Queen Regent and higher ranked than Tyrion), who sent a 100 men on a mission with an extremely small chance of success (freeing Jaime) and never gave them a second though when they didn't return as expected, who blackmailed his own 16 year old cousin to get a minor advantage on his sister while thinking it would lead to his death, who let Tymett the murderer walk free, who planned to turn the Vale into a wasteland because he was mad at Lysa, is a terrible person. And I haven't even included the ADWD stuff. Oh how easy it is to twist truths and place half-truths out of context. I'll not say anymore I don't think anyone can convince you. However the mere fact that it IS up for controversy hopefully lends you to start accepting that you should rethink a bit on what you've said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Voldemort's Toes Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 He's got some heartlessness about him, and a good helping of Lannister entitlement, but I like him because he's smart, usually reasonable, and resourceful. And he does have some morally redeeming qualities that save him from being on the level of hatefulness of a Twin or LF. That said, besides the Illyrio elephant joke, his ADwD arc is quite insufferable and...just bizarre/boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You seem to be very quick to judge people as "evil" I wonder (and this has nothing to do with the topic), are you pro death sentence? Just curious. Bless. I didn't say he was evil. I said "these are not the actions of a good person". Neither was breaking Marillion's fingers or raping the sex slave. Very anti-death penalty. I'd probably fall on the far left end of the political spectrum-the European left, not the American one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 funny how WK never labeled him evil which is why i placed the " ", he merely states that he is an awful person, the two aren't that far apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Very anti-death penalty. I'd probably fall on the far left end of the political spectrum-the European left, not the American one. I'm happy about that much at least then. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 which is why i placed the " ", he merely states that he is an awful person, the two aren't that far apart. *She The two are rather far apart actually. Awful but not evil: Stannis, Robert, Tyrion, Sandor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Meribald Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm sorry but, THIS IS WESTEROS! Marrying 12 year olds isn't that big of a deal, it happens all the time, and she would be married of anyway. Of course there is a bit of selfishness in it for Tyrion, excuse him for being human and wanting good things for himself. Zactly :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 WK is a woman ;) I'm probably in the "hate to love" camp. I like Tyrion, I really really do, but I can also see how he is a horrible person, a rapist and murderer, someone whose idea of bringing justice meant letting a barbarian get away with murder because it was politically expedient for him and who married a girl who had been forced to agree to said arrangement. Sometimes, even when you can't avert an evil, you can still decide not to participate in it, and Tyrion did participate in the injustice that happened to Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Oh how easy it is to twist truths and place half-truths out of context. I'll not say anymore I don't think anyone can convince you. However the mere fact that it IS up for controversy hopefully lends you to start accepting that you should rethink a bit on what you've said. So why don't you point out which parts of David Selig's post are "twisting truth's" or "half-truth" and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 *She The two are rather far apart actually. Awful but not evil: Stannis, Robert, Tyrion, Sandor Sorry about the he-part, didn't know. As for evil, I didn't really mean evil as in "Ramsay-evil", perhaps I have a different concept of the seriousness of the word evil than you do. English is not my native language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Voldemort's Toes Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Also, Marillion was an annoying little shit. Remember he wouldn't let Tyrion share his hidey hole behind the rock when they were attacked by the mountain clans on the pass? I think everyone wanted a piece of Marillion, even Catelyn and Roderick. This is the same poor little singer that actually did try to rape Sansa, was about to see her killed, and then got screwed by that even bigger sack of shit LF. Good riddance to him, I say. There was no reason for him to be involved in any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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