Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Does anyone but me feel like Tyrion might be a better person than say Brienne, Davos, or even Ned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hippie Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 There's probably an uptick in criticism of Tyrion following ADWD, which I think was also the result of people revisiting his chapters in earlier books and reevaluating his actions/thoughts/etc. during them. I wouldn't say he's anywhere near the traditional Unholy Trinity for the forum, though (Cat, Sansa, Dany) in terms of hate, it's much more of a readjustment of how some people view him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Mostly agree, except for the part about being critical of Rhaegar. Hate to start a side discussion, but I feel compelled. Rhaegar started the whole mess that everybody got into because he took Lyanna Stark. I don't care if he loved her. I don't care if she loved him. He was already married and she was betrothed. He/they through all that to the wind for love or lust and the kingdom burned for it. Both dead. Both fathers dead. Brothers and sisters and children dead. All for love/lust. Yeah, I'm pretty harsh on ole Rhaegar. I know he was a sight better then his old man but it was his actions that led to the Rebellion, not Aery's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Does anyone but me feel like Tyrion might be a better person than say Brienne, Davos, or even Ned? You might be. He's certainly a better character to read then all of the others. He's more interesting and complex. But Ned, Brienne, and Davos were all better people in my opinion. Tyrion has always been the dark hero/light villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvewolf243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Does anyone but me feel like Tyrion might be a better person than say Brienne, Davos, or even Ned? Think he will be a better person than in DwD, but still not on the level of Ned , Davos and etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hate to start a side discussion, but I feel compelled.Rhaegar started the whole mess that everybody got into because he took Lyanna Stark. I don't care if he loved her. I don't care if she loved him. He was already married and she was betrothed. He/they through all that to the wind for love or lust and the kingdom burned for it. Both dead. Both fathers dead. Brothers and sisters and children dead. All for love/lust. Yeah, I'm pretty harsh on ole Rhaegar. I know he was a sight better then his old man but it was his actions that led to the Rebellion, not Aery's. I cannot bring myself to judge Rhaegar harshly. He was a beautiful man. You might be. He's certainly a better character to read then all of the others. He's more interesting and complex. But Ned, Brienne, and Davos were all better people in my opinion. Tyrion has always been the dark hero/light villain. There's a troll in every man, and it stirs when you put a keyboard in its hands. :leaving: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I can't believe you guys gave that post an honest response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I can't believe you guys gave that post an honest response. :lol: TWO of em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I’m talking about the people who are anti- Tyrion, Theon, Jaime—pretty much any character who’s done something dark at some point. Why do they keep picking up the books? I love how GRRM made all characters with distinct personal flaws, it makes it all that much more real. “There’s a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in its hand” – so true. Given this mindset, the following might come off as a shock to you, but one can hate or dislike a character and still consider them entertaining and interesting to read about. What actually pisses me off is when people act there’s something wrong with you for supporting these guys. It might not be explicitly stated in a post, but it’s very insinuated or implied by some and it gets old. Example: “I don’t see how anyone could support Theon after what he raped Kyra,” – completely passing judgment on others. As if supporting Theon after that is akin to supporting and condoning rape. Some strictly view Tyrion and Theon as rapists and murderers, and Jaime as an attempted child killer. I swear some people try and back you into a corner, like they’re trying to get you to say “yes, I support a rapist.” I don’t read the books as an outlet for moral outrage. Quite presumptious to critizise others for "passing judgement" while passing judgement on others in the same post by deciding it is pointless for them to read the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Cute. I don't remember anyone passing judgement on people who like Tyrion. I have seen posters (in this very thread!) say that one needs to be near perfect morally in real life in order to criticise Tyrion. Also, I am judging this poster. Hard, but not for liking Tyrion . Then you can call me a selfish asshole. I don't mind. In Tyrion's shoes, I would rather marry a 12 year old girl who hates me over staying single for life. Just too bad I'm not a sexy looking prince like Joffrey, eh? Maybe if I kill a couple of butcher's boys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Quite presumptious to critizise others for "passing judgement" while passing judgement on others in the same post by deciding it is pointless for them to read the books.Hell of a lot less presumptuous then presuming that someone condones an act because they are a fan of a character. As if I can like Tyrion as a character but if I view him as a "good person," I'm an apologist for rape and murder.And don't say that doesn't happen because it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Voldemort's Toes Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Alayaya? At her mother Chataya's brothel? She seems perfectly capable of giving her consent.And didn't Tyrion explain to Shae the what he would be paying and get her agreement to his terms when Bronn first found her? Regardless of the slave status of the girl in Essos that seemed a hell of a lot less rapey because he actually treated her like a person, and just serves to underscore his moral decline.Not every character that visits a whore is rapey. But yeah this is a story where men treat women shitty often, but whenever they do I am going to call them a shitty man and ADwD Tyrion is a shitty man.He IS a shitty man. And he's definately had a moral decline. All I mean is that decline suggests he had a higher starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojen Weed Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 But wait! Tyrion already had a wife! He already had happiness, but let his father have her gang raped and then he joined in!Please remind me how he's a misunderstood good guy?He let his father have her gang raped, yeah sure, Tywin asked for Tyrion's permission before doing that...You said that Sansa had no choice, that it was either get married to Tyrion or get beaten, well I guess that's pretty much the choices Tywin gave Tyrion. Either rape your wife or I'll have you beaten, maybe worse either rape her or I'll kill her... I guess that's pretty much what happened, otherwise why didn't Tywin had Tysha killed? she was just a crofter's daughter after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 He let his father have her gang raped, yeah sure, Tywin asked for Tyrion's permission before doing that...You said that Sansa had no choice, that it was either get married to Tyrion or get beaten, well I guess that's pretty much the choices Tywin gave Tyrion. Either rape your wife or I'll have you beaten, maybe worse either rape her or I'll kill her... I guess that's pretty much what happened, otherwise why didn't Tywin had Tysha killed? she was just a crofter's daughter after all.It doesnt appear that Tyrion did a damn thing to try to help Tysha or put up any resistance to joining in, this is where I have a problem with it. If you love someone, like he claims he did, you at least put up a fight and try to help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It doesnt appear that Tyrion did a damn thing to try to help Tysha or put up any resistance to joining in, this is where I have a problem with it. If you love someone, like he claims he did, you at least put up a fight and try to help them. What could a dwarf possibly do? He wouldn't have been able to interfere at all, he would have been the easiest person to subdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It doesnt appear that Tyrion did a damn thing to try to help Tysha or put up any resistance to joining in, this is where I have a problem with it. If you love someone, like he claims he did, you at least put up a fight and try to help them. My main beef with Tyrion is actually when Jaime tells him the truth (aka Tysha wasn't a whore and actually liked Tyrion), Tyrion doesn't even think of the consequences of Jaime's statement (aka she did actually love me and I don't need whores for companionship), instead he just has thoughts of bloodlust and wants to kill Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlowCloud Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 For all of his appeal as the misunderstood, actually good guy... Tyrion's treatment of women is extremely problematic to me and it makes him come off as a bit of a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 For all of his appeal as the misunderstood, actually good guy... Tyrion's treatment of women is extremely problematic to me and it makes him come off as a bit of a hypocrite. Would we be as sympathetic to Tyrion if he wasn't a dwarf ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Would we be as sympathetic to Tyrion if he wasn't a dwarf ? Would Tyrion have any of his psychological problems if he wasn't a dwarf? Would he be as big a dick or have been subjected to half the stuff he has been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 What could a dwarf possibly do? He wouldn't have been able to interfere at all, he would have been the easiest person to subdue. He'd likely fail, sure, but he should have tried to do something. Maybe at the very least Tywin would have some bit of respect for him if that were the case. My main beef with Tyrion is actually when Jaime tells him the truth (aka Tysha wasn't a whore and actually liked Tyrion), Tyrion doesn't even think of the consequences of Jaime's statement (aka she did actually love me and I don't need whores for companionship), instead he just has thoughts of bloodlust and wants to kill Jaime.That's a good point, and another example of how he rarely thinks of others, just himself. Not, how did these actions effect her, just how they effected him. Even as time goes on and he's searching for her, he never thinks of how she's been effected that I remember. That's pretty disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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