Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Which PoV characters do you think he's better than? Bran? Ned? Sansa? Brienne? Davos? Of course not better than Ned, Brienne and Davos, but they are the arguably the "best" people in the series. Do Bran and Sansa count? No, they are very young and have thus far have had no power to do anything, and thus do anything wrong. Of course they seem like good children up to this point. I'm just curious if Sansa will be as "clean" if she comes into power and is Tyrion's age. As for Bran pretty much the same thing, and he's already flirting with "wrong" things by skinchanging into Hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 He's delusional to think a whore loves him. She's only in danger because of him. He refuses to pay her in the end, forces her into servitude, and still expected sex because he "thinks" she loves him. Taking her to KL was selfish in the first place knowing what his father said. He doesn't get a pass on his treatment of Shea because he thinks she loves him back. So you just repeated what I said, only making it look worse and blaming him for expecting someone to love him. I did say it was delusional but can you blame him for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Suddenly Tyrion is a selfish asshole for expecting someone to love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Of course not better than Ned, Brienne and Davos, but they are the arguably the "best" people in the series. Do Bran and Sansa count? No, they are very young and have thus far have had no power to do anything, and thus do anything wrong. Of course they seem like good children up to this point. I'm just curious if Sansa will be as "clean" if she comes into power and is Tyrion's age. As for Bran pretty much the same thing, and he's already flirting with "wrong" things by skinchanging into Hodor. So which characters? Tywin? Cersei, Gregor, Ramsey? Because those are absurdly low bars to jump over. Suddenly Tyrion is a selfish asshole for expecting someone to love him. Not at all. If he loved Shae, he'd have paid her off and sent her away from KL-and danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 "expected sex"? Of course Tyrion is delusional but he actually loved her, and thought she loved him too. He thought she wanted to be with him so pretty much everything you said about him endangering her being purely selfish, think again. He believed they really had something, which is of course ridiculous, but hey, what do you expect from a dwarf who hardly knows what love is and has been arguably mentally scarred for life already. ..that is exactly what he hired her for, acting as if she was in love with him, so he is entirely to blame if he believes her act. And considering how the main danger to Shae derives from her association with him, yes, it was purely selfish. How many people did Ned murder? But he's probably still the best guy that ever lived. The only person that Tyrion ever killed that ( and even this is arguable) did not deserve it, is Shae. As stated numerous times before, but we seem to have to repeat these arguments again and again. Tyrion is not a good guy, but more so than most other characters, and people living in our world, and he's not at all a bad person either. do elaborate. eta: sorry for missing this earlier, but the singer did not deserve it, either. Neither did the antler-men he gave to Joffrey to torture and kill, the smallfolk killed by the mountain-clans he equipped etc. I "personalized" because perhaps that would stop you from repeating the same things, which have already been answered. I'm just tired of your apparent white and black view of people. Oh Tyrion killed someone? Let's forget all the good things and redeemable qualities he has shown in previous books, and label him as a total scumbag from now on. Life isn't black and white, and neither are people. Seems like a weak attempt at discrediting others, but if that's the way you want to go instead of sticking to a factual debate, to each their own I guess. So, if my point has been answered, why do you still refrain from referring me to where it has been? Of course not better than Ned, Brienne and Davos, but they are the arguably the "best" people in the series. Do Bran and Sansa count? No, they are very young and have thus far have had no power to do anything, and thus do anything wrong. Of course they seem like good children up to this point. I'm just curious if Sansa will be as "clean" if she comes into power and is Tyrion's age. As for Bran pretty much the same thing, and he's already flirting with "wrong" things by skinchanging into Hodor. Question still stands: which pov-character do you think he's better than? Suddenly Tyrion is a selfish asshole for expecting someone to love him. As he payed her to act as if she loved him and put her life in jeopardy, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 So you just repeated what I said, only making it look worse and blaming him for expecting someone to love him. I did say it was delusional but can you blame him for that? Yes, yes I do blame him for killing Shea because he allowed himself to become delusional about her. Allowing himself to fall for a whore was dumb, but believing for 1 min she loves him back was an epic, inexcusable, stupid delusion. Especially when once he moved her to the Red Keep she starts begging for her payments back every time she sees him. And killing her was in no way what so ever, even arguably, excusable. She's a whore who has to make a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Question still stands: which pov-character do you think he's better than? I wasn't talking about just POV-characters. But surely Cersei for one already, Jaime and Theon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 So if I could just get it straight. The reasons to hate Tyrion are: 1) He agreed to marrying Sansa and touched her breast.2) He fools himself into believing Shae loves him and kills her when he's heartbroken by her betrayal3) He raped a Slave girl in Dance is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 This is the only point you answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I wasn't talking about just POV-characters. But surely Cersei for one already, Jaime and Theon. Again, ridiculously low bars to hop over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 This is the only point you answer? I'm past trying to answer to all of your "reasons" to hate Tyrion, I'm pretty sure nobody can convince you, so what is the point. You are deadset on hating him. If you consider this a victory go ahead. All of your reasons have already been answered somewhere, but I really don't feel like looking for the posts, or typing it all out again. I can understand you not liking Tyrion and saying that he's not a 100% good person. But saying that he is a really bad selfish person is just way too narrow minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Again, ridiculously low bars to hop over. So at what point do you become a "good" person? When you are better th:an who exactly? Do elaborate on this whole "people-judging-system" you've apparently thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm past trying to answer to all of your "reasons" to hate Tyrion, I'm pretty sure nobody can convince you, so what is the point. You are deadset on hating him. If you consider this a victory go ahead. All of your reasons have already been answered somewhere, but I really don't feel like looking for the posts, or typing it all out again. I can understand you not liking Tyrion and saying that he's not a 100% good person. But saying that he is a really bad selfish person is just way too narrow minded. surprise, surprise, another vague, evasive answer referring to the points supposedly already being answered. why the hell do you post at all if you won't answer responses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 So if I could just get it straight. The reasons to hate Tyrion are: 1) He agreed to marrying Sansa and touched her breast.2) He fools himself into believing Shae loves him and kills her when he's heartbroken by her betrayal3) He raped a Slave girl in Dance is that correct?He also broke a singer's fingers, making his likely hood of supporting himself drop dramatically. Had another singer killed because he dared to mock and try to blackmail him (murder was overkill in this situation)Arms the mountain clans causing who knows how many innocent smallfolk deaths (this fact has yet to be argued against, so I guess we all agree it was an evil deed) all because he's mad at Lysa. He's rude and condescending to just about every person he ever comes in contact with, even though there's no reason for it half the time. Not evil, just douchey.He thinks he's owed some great debt for "saving" KL, even though he didn't. Tywin with the Tyrells were the true savior that day. Without them, all Tyrion did was slow the assault, KL would still likely have fallen. He refers to the Tower of the Hand as his, even after Tywin moves in. Tyrion was never Hand, Tywin was. Tyrion was just acting Hand while Tyrion lead the army. Not evil, but pretentious. He alienated Pycelle, the one true Lannister man on the Small Council. Not evil, just dumb. Plus many other things that have already been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Suddenly Tyrion is a selfish asshole for expecting someone to love him. No, he's a selfish asshole for paying someone to have sex with him and expecting her to love him. And then not paying her and still expecting her to love him (as well as still have sex with him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 surprise, surprise, another vague, evasive answer referring to the points supposedly already being answered. why the hell do you post at all if you won't answer responses? Because I expected this thread to give a few good points as to why people don't like Tyrion, and (hopefully more) a few people telling me why they love him. I'm pretty tired having to constantly defend him from attacks of fervent haters. Surprise, surprise, you can't take a hint and had to rub in the fact that you thought you "won". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Lady Lothston Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Suddenly Tyrion is a selfish asshole for expecting someone to love him. No, he's a selfish asshole because he killed someone. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Because I expected this thread to give a few good points as to why people don't like Tyrion, and (hopefully more) a few people telling me why they love him. Not really a reason not to adress any of the points I've made in regard to Shae. I'm pretty tired having to constantly defend him from attacks of fervent haters. Surprise, surprise, you can't take a hint and had to rub in the fact that you thought you "won". ..what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I wasn't talking about just POV-characters. But surely Cersei for one already, Jaime and Theon.At least Jaime has done a few things that weren't for his advancement alone.Saving Brianne for example, yes, Jaime wasn't in any real danger from the Bear, but he saved her because she didn't deserve that treatment and he felt he owed her. Killing Aerys, he did this to save his father and himself, but the fact that he never tries to explain the situation and lives his life being branded "Kingslayer" is pretty noble in a way. Most people would be spouting the tail of what happened to everyone they ever meet, while Jaime tells exactly 1 person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Not at all. If he loved Shae, he'd have paid her off and sent her away from KL-and danger. I like this. Suddenly people have begun doing smart things when they are in love. I must be reading a different series of books. Exhibit A: Tyrion did not love Shae. . Allowing himself to fall for a whore was dumb, but believing for 1 min she loves him back was an epic, inexcusable, stupid delusion No romance there. Again, ridiculously low bars to hop over. You asked what POV characters he thought Tyrion was better than, and he gave an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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