Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Then you shouldn't defending Tyrion, he's a kinslayer, which by Westerosi standards makes him the lowest of the low - complete scumbag, criminal and sinner, cursed by gods and men, etc. Oh, he might be a scumbag. But I'm pretty sure he's not the lowest of the low though. :) I still that that may be reserved for Joffrey Baratheon, who in fact killed none of his kin, or Gregor Clegane, or Walder Frey, or maybe Wyman Mannderly who cooked some people in a pie and fed it to their relatives :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvewolf243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Oh, he might be a scumbag. But I'm pretty sure he's not the lowest of the low though. :) I still that that may be reserved for Joffrey Baratheon, who in fact killed none of his kin, or Gregor Clegane, or Walder Frey, or maybe Wyman Mannderly who cooked some people in a pie and fed it to their relatives :) What about Ramsay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 What about Ramsay ? I dunno. Is there anything that Ramsay has done that Tyrion hasn't? Lets see: Kinslayer: check Rapist: check Forced marriage: check Mutilator/castrator/torturer: give Tyrion time. He's threatened all of these already. It seems Ramsay and Tyrion are on a par here, eh? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I usually like to read Tyrion's chapters. I like how he stands up for Jon and Bran, and I really like his sarcasm too. He's smart, he uses his wits, knowing that everyone reviles him for being a dwarf anyway. But some/a lot of his actions are just really questionable and sometimes they're downright bad. I think I'm kinda neutral on his part. I like to hate him, and I hate to like him; at the same time. I just cringe when people are saying that Tyrion is a morally white person, and perhaps the "best" person of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I just cringe when people are saying that Tyrion is a morally white person, and perhaps the "best" person of the series.I've never seen anyone suggest this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 IKR? It's questionable whether ANY of the "whores" in Westeros or Essos are capable of giving consent. LF's brothels didn't seem too savory in their treatment, and was basically sex slavery in all but name. That means EVERY male character who has visited a whore is at least somewhat rapey. Then there's the outright rapists on top of everything. I'm not saying that they are excused because of this...just that you then have to accept that you're reading a story an about dudes who treat women shitty, and must therefore move on and continue judging them by the remaining available moral distinctions, or just stop out of moral outrage and protest.Alayaya? At her mother Chataya's brothel? She seems perfectly capable of giving her consent. And didn't Tyrion explain to Shae the what he would be paying and get her agreement to his terms when Bronn first found her? Regardless of the slave status of the girl in Essos that seemed a hell of a lot less rapey because he actually treated her like a person, and just serves to underscore his moral decline. Not every character that visits a whore is rapey. But yeah this is a story where men treat women shitty often, but whenever they do I am going to call them a shitty man and ADwD Tyrion is a shitty man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Referring to pro or anti Tyrion people? ^^ I’m talking about the people who are anti- Tyrion, Theon, Jaime—pretty much any character who’s done something dark at some point. Why do they keep picking up the books? I love how GRRM made all characters with distinct personal flaws, it makes it all that much more real. “There’s a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in its hand” – so true. What actually pisses me off is when people act there’s something wrong with you for supporting these guys. It might not be explicitly stated in a post, but it’s very insinuated or implied by some and it gets old. Example: “I don’t see how anyone could support Theon after what he raped Kyra,” – completely passing judgment on others. As if supporting Theon after that is akin to supporting and condoning rape. Some strictly view Tyrion and Theon as rapists and murderers, and Jaime as an attempted child killer. I swear some people try and back you into a corner, like they’re trying to get you to say “yes, I support a rapist.” I don’t read the books as an outlet for moral outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I've never seen anyone suggest this. Countless times I've seen people saying things like that, also at this forum. You'd be surprised, honestly. And I'm not even starting about people who only watch the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvewolf243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I dunno. Is there anything that Ramsay has done that Tyrion hasn't? Lets see:Kinslayer: checkRapist: checkForced marriage: checkMutilator/castrator/torturer: give Tyrion time. He's threatened all of these already.It seems Ramsay and Tyrion are on a par here, eh? :)Looks like Tyrion will get his own Theon and make Reek out of him. Wonder if it's Jorah ? :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm actually harsher in my judgement of Theon, Jamie, Catelyn, Rhaegar and Sansa. I'm more lenient when it comes to Tyrion and Ned. Interesting. I'm not super harsh. I don't think there is anything that Theon, Jamie, Catelyn, Rhaegar and Sansa have done that they have not already been punished for. Tyrion though hasn't really been punished for anything bad because he always seems to land on his feet in some way. It seems to me that Tyrion's reckoning is coming at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I dunno. Is there anything that Ramsay has done that Tyrion hasn't? Lets see:Kinslayer: checkRapist: checkForced marriage: checkMutilator/castrator/torturer: give Tyrion time. He's threatened all of these already.It seems Ramsay and Tyrion are on a par here, eh? :) I hope that post was in jest. We don't know for sure that Ramsay killed Domeric. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvewolf243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I hope that post was in jest. We don't know for sure that Ramsay killed Domeric. :lol: Possibility is pretty high. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Tyrion had bloodlust thoughts of killing Mord ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Countless times I've seen people saying things like that, also at this forum. You'd be surprised, honestly. And I'm not even starting about people who only watch the series.How could anyone who has read the books think Tyrion is a better person than say, Brienne, Davos, Ned, etc....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I was under the impression Tyrion has as much fans here as anywhere. Those one or two current threads bashing him are pretty out of the norm. Tyrion has plenty of fans because he's awesome. Haters just tend to be louder and more aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvewolf243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Tyrion has plenty of fans because he's awesome. Haters just tend to be louder and more aggressive. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm actually harsher in my judgement of Theon, Jamie, Catelyn, Rhaegar and Sansa. I'm more lenient when it comes to Tyrion and Ned. Interesting. I'm not super harsh. I don't think there is anything that Theon, Jamie, Catelyn, Rhaegar and Sansa have done that they have not already been punished for. Tyrion though hasn't really been punished for anything bad because he always seems to land on his feet in some way. It seems to me that Tyrion's reckoning is coming at some point.Mostly agree, except for the part about being critical of Rhaegar.And one could argue that being born a dwarf was punishment enough. If he hadn't been born a lannister he would have probably been killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm happy to see a lot of Tyrion fans take over the thread, I was feeling very lonely and, indeed, very attacked a few hours ago :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 How could anyone who has read the books think Tyrion is a better person than say, Brienne, Davos, Ned, etc....? That's a good question, but I havn't seen anybody yet raise those claims today so I can't ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvewolf243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm happy to see a lot of Tyrion fans take over the thread, I was feeling very lonely and, indeed, very attacked a few hours ago :D :cool4: I'm not super harsh. I don't think there is anything that Theon, Jamie, Catelyn, Rhaegar and Sansa have done that they have not already been punished for. Tyrion though hasn't really been punished for anything bad because he always seems to land on his feet in some way. It seems to me that Tyrion's reckoning is coming at some point. Tyrion has pretty strong plot-armor . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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