Are people too harsh on the Tullys?

[sifth]

If I had to pick between keeping a famipy member alive vs a bastard, I would pick the family member. Perhaps you could say Cat was rude, but being rude is hardly a moral crime.

you keep that sort of thinking to yourself, saying that to someones face is what makes you a jackass though

[Sarah Lannister]

I feel bad for the Riverlands. Such a beautiful looking place gets crapped on the entire series, and even in events preceding GoT. I'm also confident that it'll receive similar treatment in the future.

[Gneisenau]

you keep that sort of thinking to yourself, saying that to someones face is what makes you a jackass though

So basically being rude is a moral crime then ?

[sifth]

So basically being rude is a moral crime then ?

ignoring someone is rude

telling someone to drop dead, is something a step or above that.

if anything times when we're saddest and weak, are often what show us our true nature. I'm sure Ned was just as sad as Cat when Bran fell. I didn't see him going about acting like a jackass. Heck all of the kids were probably hurt as well

[Lord Reaver]

If you don't ever want to free/trade your hostage (which seemed like Robb's plan) then there is no point to holding them as a hostage. Cat had the right intention in wanting to actually use their hostage for something.

There's a difference between using your hostage and letting him go with zero security that he'll hold up his end. That's not using, that's giving it away. Would you give me 100$ if I promised you to pay you back next year, not forgetting that I was notorious for never paying back my loans ? No. Then you wouldn't send Jamie off on his word that he'd return Sansa.

Besides, we don't know what Robb had in mind for Jamie. He never got to do anything with him before his mother turned him loose.

[Minsc]

if anything times when we're saddest and weak, are often what show us our true nature. I'm sure Ned was just as sad as Cat when Bran fell. I didn't see him going about acting like a jackass. Heck all of the kids were probably hurt as well

So Jon's true nature is a crazed murderer who goes nuts when ever he feels insulted? In how, I directly remember him attempting to knife attack Thorne after he insulted Jon after Ned's arrest?

Honestly, this entire refrain that because Catelyn said something nasty once while under immense grief is ridiculous. Simply, it was wrong but is hardly some all defining terrible act. Quite frankly, besides maybe Brienne every major character in the series have performed worse actions then that.

[sifth]

So Jon's true nature is a crazed murderer who goes nuts when ever he feels insulted? In how, I directly remember him attempting to knife attack Thorne after he insulted Jon after Ned's arrest?

Honestly, this entire refrain that because Catelyn said something nasty once while under immense grief is ridiculous. Simply, it was wrong but is hardly some all defining terrible act. Quite frankly, besides maybe Brienne every major character in the series have performed worse actions then that.

having been one of the few people who actually had to go through something similar to what Cat went through yea, I actually can say that. I was even around some people I didn't quite like, but I didn't go about saying "I wish you were the one in a comma or dead ".

but like I said Cat's fans will blindly defend her to the bitter end. which you have been doing quite lovely

Cat's chapters move the plot along, so I'll give her that much, but as a character I view her as scum. Is she the worst character in the series not even close, but less bad doesn't make someone good either

[Minsc]

having been one of the few people who actually had to go through something similar to what Cat went through yea, I actually can say that. I was even around some people I didn't quite like, but I didn't go about saying "I wish you were the one in a comma or dead ".

but like I said Cat's fans will blindly defend her to the bitter end. which you have been doing quite lovely

Cat's chapters move the plot along, so I'll give her that much, but as a character I view her as scum. Is she the worst character in the series not even close, but less bad doesn't make someone good either

Good for you, I guess, but no you cannot say that in how not everybody reacts the same when their child is lying crippled in front of them. Simply, it hardly makes one a terrible person for them to snap at some during that time of immense grief.

If Catelyn is scum because that one act, then almost every character besides Brienne and Davos are equally scum if not worse seeing how besides those two POV characters I cannot think of an individual who hasn't performed a worse action then one time snapping at someone.

[sifth]

Good for you, I guess, but no you cannot say that in how not everybody reacts the same when their child is lying crippled in front of them. Simply, it hardly makes one a terrible person for them to snap at some during that time of immense grief.

If Catelyn is scum because that one act, then almost every character besides Brienne and Davos are equally scum if not worse seeing how besides those two POV characters I cannot think of an individual who hasn't performed a worse action then one time snapping at someone.

none of my friends nor my family went about wishing people anyone dead either and it was certainly not good for me. Probably one of the worst experiences of my life. There's a huge difference from getting angry at someone and telling them to drop dead

no Cat does far worse things; kidnapping Tyrion, freeing Jamie, leaving Bran, having her daughters go the KL after being warned not to send them there

yea I heard all of the usual excuses you've had. "Little Finger and Varys were friends, Bran had other care takers, she was sad so freeing Jamie is alright"

not one has convinced me otherwise so just save your time. this is honestly how I feel and it's not changing anytime soon

[Alayne's Shadow.]

having been one of the few people who actually had to go through something similar to what Cat went through yea, I actually can say that. I was even around some people I didn't quite like, but I didn't go about saying "I wish you were the one in a comma or dead ".

but like I said Cat's fans will blindly defend her to the bitter end. which you have been doing quite lovely

Cat's chapters move the plot along, so I'll give her that much, but as a character I view her as scum. Is she the worst character in the series not even close, but less bad doesn't make someone good either

People act in different ways to similar situations. You can lose the control in such situations. It might not happen to you, but It does happen to a lot of human beings.

[StarkInWinterfell]

none of my friends nor my family went about wishing people anyone dead either and it was certainly not good for me. Probably one of the worst experiences of my life. There's a huge difference from getting angry at someone and telling them to drop dead

no Cat does far worse things; kidnapping Tyrion, freeing Jamie, leaving Bran, having her daughters go the KL after being warned not to send them there

yea I heard all of the usual excuses you've had. "Little Finger and Varys were friends, Bran had other care takers, she was sad so freeing Jamie is alright"

not one has convinced me otherwise so just save your time. this is honestly how I feel and it's not changing anytime soon

It's clear from this thread that your feelings towards Cat are deeply entrenched and you're not going to change your mind. I'll just say that the reasons you loathe Cat so much seem to come down to the fact she's a human with flaws and makes mistakes. Personally, the fact that she's so well drawn a character is part of the reason I like her.

I understand the reasons for what she does and why her mistakes were made. I understand that there's more to her than those mistakes. And it all comes together to make her (from my POV) an entirely sympathetic character.

[Minsc]

none of my friends nor my family went about wishing people anyone dead either and it was certainly not good for me. Probably one of the worst experiences of my life. There's a huge difference from getting angry at someone and telling them to drop dead

Yawn, no one is saying the action was right but is hardly some terrible unforgivable act. Seeing how I doubt you attempted to knife anyone during this time of stress if they insulted you yet I doubt most people consider Jon scum for attempting to do that to Thorne after Ned's arrest.

no Cat does far worse things; kidnapping Tyrion, freeing Jamie, leaving Bran, having her daughters go the KL after being warned not to send them there

None of those are terrible actions, simply they might not be the most well thought out yet there are hardly terrible actions performed for malicious reasons.

Especially, things like "leaving Bran" or "having her daughters go to KL after being warned not to send them there," first in how the later is not even true as neither her or Ned (who equally made the decision) were warned not to bring the girls to KL. While, the former just reeks of some weak stereotype that women should be obligated to stay with their children in how no one complains about Ned leaving Bran.

Finally, again even if we take those to be some terrible acts they still hardly rank her worse then numerous of the other major characters in the series.

For example, Jon bullies innocent Gilly into abandoning her innocent baby(leaving it motherless!!!), Ned takes a child hostage (along with leaving Bran and taking the girls to KL), Brienne openly sides with a known usurper, Davos was originally a criminal and sides with a man who cruelly burns individuals to death, Robb lead raids and pillaging of the smallfolk of the Westerlands, and that is only the other lighter characters.

[sifth]

It's clear from this thread that your feelings towards Cat are deeply entrenched and you're not going to change your mind. I'll just say that the reasons you loathe Cat so much seem to come down to the fact she's a human with flaws and makes mistakes. Personally, the fact that she's so well drawn a character is part of the reason I like her.

I understand the reasons for what she does and why her mistakes were made. I understand that there's more to her than those mistakes. And it all comes together to make her (from my POV) an entirely sympathetic character.

well I also understand the reasons why Theon and Cercie do things, but I loath them too. Though Cat is a saint compared to those two characters, ha ha ha

I don't loath her for being human, I loath her for being petty and overly feeling entitled to stuff

[sifth]

Yawn, no one is saying the action was right but is hardly some terrible unforgivable act. Seeing how I doubt you attempted to knife anyone during this time of stress if they insulted you yet I doubt most people consider Jon scum for attempting to do that to Thorne after Ned's arrest.

None of those are terrible actions, simply they might not be the most well thought out yet there are hardly terrible actions performed for malicious reasons.

Especially, things like "leaving Bran" or "having her daughters go to KL after being warned not to send them there," first in how the later is not even true as neither her or Ned (who equally made the decision) were warned not to bring the girls to KL. While, the former just reeks of some weak stereotype that women should be obligated to stay with their children in how no one complains about Ned leaving Bran.

Finally, again even if we take those to be some terrible acts they still hardly rank her worse then numerous of the other major characters in the series.

For example, Jon bullies innocent Gilly into abandoning her innocent baby(leaving it motherless!!!), Ned takes a child hostage (along with leaving Bran and taking the girls to KL), Brienne openly sides with a known usurper, Davos was originally a criminal and sides with a man who cruelly burns individuals to death, Robb lead raids and pillaging of the smallfolk of the Westerlands, and that is only the other lighter characters

you and me will just never see eye to eye, it seems clear as day. your biggest defense of Cat is, "she's not as bad as someone else", lol

[StarkInWinterfell]

well I also understand the reasons why Theon and Cercie do things, but I loath them too. Though Cat is a saint compared to those two characters, ha ha ha

I don't loath her for being human, I loath her for being petty and overly feeling entitled to stuff

'Petty' - yes, sometimes. But in what way does she behave 'overly entitled'? We have three books worth of her as a POV character and I never got this impression at all.

[Minsc]

overly feeling entitled to stuff

Do tell what she all felt overly entitled too? Especially, seeing how we constantly see her rough it many ways that a normal highborn lady would think of with her riding out alone without any entourage.

Not going to bother with the petty complaint as they has been previously debunked in regards to charge it is mostly leveled at.

your biggest defense of Cat is, "she's not as bad as someone else", lol

Better then your offense that she is scum because she once said something nasty and a number of other things taken out of context and relying on hindsight bias.

[sifth]

'Petty' - yes, sometimes. But in what way does she behave 'overly entitled'? We have three books worth of her as a POV character and I never got this impression at all.

In how to handle Jamie for one thing. Karstark wanted vengeance for his sons death, but she felt that he wasn't entitled to that vengeance because Jamie could buy back the life of her daughters. We all know how that ended, lol

[Wmarshal]

In how to handle Jamie for one thing. Karstark wanted vengeance for his sons death, but she felt that he wasn't entitled to that vengeance because Jamie could buy back the life of her daughters. We all know how that ended, lol

This is medieval times your word is all that matters, Tyrion didn't keep his word and for that he is a lying swine. It is better to save someone then to kill a man.

[Minsc]

In how to handle Jamie for one thing. Karstark wanted vengeance for his sons death, but she felt that he wasn't entitled to that vengeance because Jamie could buy back the life of her daughters. We all know how that ended, lol

I don't think you understand what entitled means if you think that makes her entitled. Karstark was entitled vengeance in how Jaime wasn't his prisoner, moreover his demands for vengeance were ridiculous as his sons died on the battlefield where they were equally attacking Jaime.

[sifth]

I don't think you understand what entitled means if you think that makes her entitled. Karstark was entitled vengeance in how Jaime wasn't his prisoner, moreover his demands for vengeance were ridiculous as his sons died on the battlefield where they were equally attacking Jaime.

nor was Jamie Cat's prisoner either. She still made the trade anyway, a trade the Lannister had no reason to honor and freed Cleos Frey on top of that a man who's freedom wasn't even part of the deal

yea, yea, yea, she was sad so it was alright to give her the pass on this one, like so much else. go on compare her to Jon or Davos now or someone else, lol