The Great Elk Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 For the record VotFM, though it's not strictly related to this thread, I really like your ideas about the hierarchy of the Others and the implied distinctions between the undead and the neverborn. I'm not sure where it leaves us in relation to LH and NK, but I suppose we'll find out more in tWoW. I was frankly annoyed that the CotF never divulged any pertinent information to Bran about the Others in the books we already have, given how much more they must know than we do, but I suppose GRRM is waiting to reveal it all at the right time and to the right characters. Where's Benjen when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pielord Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 It's not a "back and forth"....he was simply a man, according to Old Nan, who reigned by night. as in he wasn't a king until the long night and his reign ended when the night did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 as in he wasn't a king until the long night and his reign ended when the night didExactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 For the record VotFM, though it's not strictly related to this thread, I really like your ideas about the hierarchy of the Others and the implied distinctions between the undead and the neverborn. I'm not sure where it leaves us in relation to LH and NK, but I suppose we'll find out more in tWoW. I was frankly annoyed that the CotF never divulged any pertinent information to Bran about the Others in the books we already have, given how much more they must know than we do, but I suppose GRRM is waiting to reveal it all at the right time and to the right characters. Where's Benjen when you need him?:cheers: many thanks Great Elk! And yes, I think Bran has only just begun his purpose in the series. We will learn much and more through him. I've delved a bit more into this on my thread, but I believe NK militarized the Others. And that originally, they were an autoimmune response to the atrocity of First Men killing weirwoods, before the Pact. White Blood 'cells'....like the party that butchered Ser Waymar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWretchedHarmony Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The last hero is #13 just like Antonio Banderas in the 13th Warrior based on that book by the Jurassic Park dude... Since that was a middle eastern guy fighting with Norse men it fits with Azor Ahai coming from the east... Ergo the last hero is Azor Ahai (played by Antonio Banderas) and he also a horse and a dog... I'm pretty sure the horse is Mr. Ed but I'm not sure about the dog... I really hope the dog turns out to be the Hound even though that would mean he dies sad face emoji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think the Last Hero may be King of Winter. Bran as the ice dragon anti-hero. If it is a real hero, then it is Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Interesting new stuff from George: Link "As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Martin Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Interesting new stuff from George: Link "As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have." Very interesting. Is this a suggestion that "Night's King" is a title passed down or given to the leader of the Others. Or is GRRM being coy saying, "no more likely to have survived" i.e. "no human can live that long w/o the use of magic?" At any rate, the Night's King was brought down by the King of Winter (or was it the King in the North) and Joramun, so I also doubt whoever is leading the book Others today is the same as the Night's King from the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower of Almond Joy Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Interesting new stuff from George: Link "As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have."I just read that at Not a Blog. I looked and looked and couldn't find a thread about this. This seemed like the obvious place to put it. So thank you Mithras! I for one would like to hear what you think this means.Mithras, I started this as a new topic at season 5/ epi 10 forum. I used your post (didn't know how to quote from board to board) and I gave you credit for writing the post (at the beginning) and where to find it (here). I'm waiting on approval. Hope that was OK and I wasn't overstepping any bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 That quote from GRRM could mean that we'll be seeing Brandon The Builder and Lann the Clever too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Very interesting. Is this a suggestion that "Night's King" is a title passed down or given to the leader of the Others. Or is GRRM being coy saying, "no more likely to have survived" i.e. "no human can live that long w/o the use of magic?" I think he was called the Night's King because he was in the Night's Watch and declared himself a king. I doubt there's a leader of the Others going by that name in the books; the showrunners just liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I think he was called the Night's King because he was in the Night's Watch and declared himself a king. I doubt there's a leader of the Others going by that name in the books; the showrunners just liked it. He also ruled at the Nightfort with Night's Queen, supposedly committed atrocities against the Westerosi people under cover of darkness, and was found to have been making sacrifices to the Others--who were previously responsible for the Long Night. But you have a good point about the showrunners. Why on earth would the Others' leader have to make sacrifices to the Others? That just doesn't add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower of Almond Joy Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 bump for this great thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grufolo Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 When reading the books i subconsciously immediately associated Azor Ahai and the Last Hero, to me it was obvious that these were the different recounts of the same tale, divided by thousands of years of independent telling. there's just too much shared between them for be telling of different people. Obviously the long night was a tough time for all the WOIAF, and it affected Westeros and Essos, until Asshai and was probably brought about by something occurring in the old empire of the dawn age (or maybe not causally, and people were brought to think about the Empire being responsible because some were just ignorant). I think that the whole idea is that we have to read the myths as we do with the old books in the real world, such as the Bible, the VedaS, The Mahabharata, the Torah (you got the meaning, and if you're religious, this is not meant to offend you, i am just looking at these texts with a laic eye). The books of old have twisted recounts of things happened thousands of years ago, prophets allegedly living hundreds of years and the like. To have a measure of how badly can myths diverge in thousands of years we have to go back to the Myth of Atlantis, for example. the story of a mighty civilization, far more advanced than their contemporaries that is destroyed by a natural event (eruption, tsunami) is widespread in the Mediterranean sea and there are scientists who claim that this was originated by a splitting of a volcano and the consequent wave (see http://www.livescience.com/1170-towering-ancient-tsunami-devastated-mediterranean.htmlfor one such claim). The same goes for the prophecies and memories from ancient times: their recount of things is muddled and twisted by the countless transcriptions, oral transmissions and the inevitable exaltation of myth.It should still be counted amazing that AA and the LH can be recognized as the same myth, if anything. I also thought that the Night's King could be the same person, and although i think the OP author goes too far in details to imagine what could have happened, it may well be that ending the long night might have involved forging a pact with whatever force or gods are behind the WW. If that's the case, maybe the 12 companions and the 12 previous NW commanders may be a different report of the same story, once again, the number is telling enough. I can believe this idea and i would not be surprised if this turns out to be true. Possibly GRRM will never give us enough details to ever be sure, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Great thread. Kept me entertained at work for a solid 40 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoofu Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I thought the male line of Stark may only exists with the Karstark's, since the Starks of today Patriarchal Father is King Beyond the Wall, Bael the Bard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I thought the male line of Stark may only exists with the Karstark's, since the Starks of today Patriarchal Father is King Beyond the Wall, Bael the Bard. But that's a legend and we have no proof one way or the other. It's entirely possible that the Starks never died out in the male line at all. We also don't know that the Karstarks have always continued in the male line. They could have had a female Karstark keep and pass on her name at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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