Heresy 108

[Melifeather]

I disagree. The dwarf troops rendition of the War of the Five Kings was awesome! GRRM had to have a part in writing that.

Did you notice how many swings it took for King Joffrey to dismantle his unlces gift ( targaryen book ) with his grandfathers gift ( stark sword)? hint it was seven and he is no stranger to valyrian steel...

I did like the dwarf "War of the Five Kings" parody, but I guess I missed the symbolism of the seven sword hacks. That'd be pretty cool if it were intentional.

[The Lord of Corpses]

I did like the dwarf "War of the Five Kings" parody, but I guess I missed the symbolism of the seven sword hacks. That'd be pretty cool if it were intentional.

It was! :cool4:

" I remember." Joffrey brought Widow's wail down in a savage two-handed slice, onto the book that Tyrion had given him. The heavy laether cover parted at a stroke." Sharp! I told you, I am no stranger to Valyrian Steel." It took him half a dozen further cuts to hack the thick tome apart, and the boy was breathless by the time he was done.

[wolfmaid7]

It wasn't very extravagant was it?? The feast looked to be a picnic. D&D were saving the budget on this particular scene. It didn't have the proper look or feel at least until Joffery' s closeup. I loved that!

It didn't live up to his writing, in my opinion. Ser Dontos urging Sansa to leave with him now seems so abrupt with such a short introduction between the two.

I agree he just popped out of nowhere,and the next they were gone. I guess that's what they were looking for because i didn't miss them and i'm taking no one else will too until it's too late.

I never asked about or said there were white walkers at the cave. You said CH did not know what he is talking about and I pointed out what he said is correct.

As to a cold entity, there is the white walkers. That is a fact. The cold as an entity is not. You are talking about what is from the text and what is made up in theories and I am showing the white walkers are a cold entity strait from the text. How does cold have intelligence and lead the wights?

When is there a cold mist and wights in the same scene? I do not recall any mist around the wights or Others on screen, with the exception of the dissipating Ser Puddles.

I was responding to this:

Why do you think Coldhands does not know what he is talking about when it comes the white walkers, and you know more? Old Nan's stories have nothing to do with CHs words. I would say he knows pretty well what he is talking about.

My point about this was again we see words directed at how WWs done something have done something etc. In the end and yet again we only see Wights,mass wights.What he said was in correct as it relates to the situation they were in,which is why i say it was a ploy to get the group to move faster or he doesn't know or knows as much as what myths have always said. I would ask you to look at Yield's post again.Yes "The Cold" is an entity it behaves as such.The red bolded part i highlighted because it shows again that you are not familiar with the theory because you are speaking about low tempreture,chills etc the feeling which is an effect. This is not what "The cold" is theorized to be. thought i put this in my other post but i guess not the white mist aka white cold that rises is the snowstorms.

I'm not doubting that the WWs aren't cold entities,they are just the wrong entity and not the only cold entity in the story. Are the Wights cold? There you go?

By the way it reacts ; skinchanging the dead it is that type of being per the theory.A collection of Skinchangers that were robbed of their second life and are wearing the dead as skins.I will post the text from ADWD prologue and Bran 1 later.There is intelligence,complicated intelligence involved.It identifies dead and dying and takes over them.It is intelligent enough that when Sam and Gilly were in the hut it used Small Paul the NW member who saved Sam's life to make contact. Othor and Jaffar went straight for Mormont and they move as a collective not random wights. Those are signs of intelligence my friend.

I

No it was King's Landing.

They also showed the three eyed crow (or at least a crow) flying through the crypts of Winterfell.

Did anyone hear one of the suggestions for the name of Joff's sword? Stormbringer, heh.

I have to watch that vision sequence again,but the lead up to it.How Summer was standing looking at the Weirwood and the sun hitting it was beautiful. I did catch the throneroom much like how Dany saw it,and a little wighted girl turning around in the snow.Was it KL i thought it was Meerene myself but i could see that.

[Melifeather]

Wolfmaid, to me it seems overly complicated to assert that "the cold" is a separate entity from White Walkers and wights. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me. The White Walkers are the ones that shepherd the wights and they control the wights. They are the intelligent beings that you are attributing to "the cold". Why do you think there is a third ice entity? I know you've already supplied your reasoning, but it isn't making sense to me.

[Eira Seren]

Is it just me? It looked like in last night's episode, the face in Bran's wierwood tree has fangs.

Maybe just the pattern of bark underneath?

[King Benjen II]

We can answer and discuss by PM especially if you're worried about page space but I really would like my fellow Heretic's input on this.

I now have a tattoo that covers the whole top of my ring finger that I need to get covered up. That will be covered up as part of the piece but the whole thing will cover the back of my hand and involve other fingers.

The current idea is to have the Norse Yggdrasil tree on the back of my hand and its roots going down to my fingers with it completely wrapping and covering my ring finger tattoo. Also trying to work in Winter Is Coming and ravens on the back of my hand.

I am super into ASOIAF, Celtic and Norse mythology and this Heresy here so whatever ideas you have are welcome I think I would be most happy with an idea that combines Celtic and/or Norse mythology with ASOIAF and likely also something Heresy specific.

So any ideas you could think of I'd love to hear them :) Going to get it priced tomorrow but will have to spend at least a few weeks saving up for the tat.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

We can answer and discuss by PM especially if you're worried about page space but I really would like my fellow Heretic's input on this.

I now have a tattoo that covers the whole top of my ring finger that I need to get covered up. That will be covered up as part of the piece but the whole thing will cover the back of my hand and involve other fingers.

The current idea is to have the Norse Yggdrasil tree on the back of my hand and its roots going down to my fingers with it completely wrapping and covering my ring finger tattoo. Also trying to work in Winter Is Coming and ravens on the back of my hand.

I am super into ASOIAF, Celtic and Norse mythology and this Heresy here so whatever ideas you have are welcome I think I would be most happy with an idea that combines Celtic and/or Norse mythology with ASOIAF and likely also something Heresy specific.

So any ideas you could think of I'd love to hear them :) Going to get it priced tomorrow but will have to spend at least a few weeks saving up for the tat.

Well obviously, your Littlefinger's got to be rather low-key, right? I mean, otherwise, things could get a little, uh, tricky... ;)

.

[King Benjen II]

Well obviously, your Littlefinger's got to be rather low-key, right? I mean, otherwise, things could get a little, uh, tricky... ;)

.

I've never been great at picking up hints and am quite stoned at the moment. Are you saying it may complicate having a wedding ring on my ring finger?

[King Benjen II]

Yggdrasil meets Winterfell Heartree= Epic.

The weirwoods bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands. A face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful. They were old, those eyes; older than Winterfell itself.

[WierWood Wolf]

Is it just me? It looked like in last night's episode, the face in Bran's wierwood tree has fangs.

Maybe just the pattern of bark underneath?

I didn't notice the fangs, but I did notice the weirwood didn't have any blood colored sap around the eyes or mouth. Was that detail on purpose or???

[CommanderBC]

So, I would like to blow some air in the theory that Coldhands is: drumroll......

NO ONE

I think the mystery of who he is, and how he can be dead and a goody is one of the book's deepest and interesting secrets. BUT. Since they have cut him out of the tv-show, would that be evidence that he is indeed just a dead crow, controlled by tCoTF to help important persons make their goal? I think so, even though I would be happily surprised if he turned out to be either Benjen or The Night King, or someone else.

He could still well make an appearance, but since Sam never met him, and Bran haven't met him yet. In e02 says Bran says "I know where we have to go". making Coldhands important as a guide irrelevant.

I would say the chances that they cut him out is pretty good..

If he is indeed cut out, I would say that indicates he is not an important character.

And if he does appear later, I think it would be the second before Bran and his company is killed by wights/Others

[Yield.]

I must be easily pleased because I liked the show. Sure, the changes are annoyances, but I think they advanced the story with the main plot lines intact.

What had me scratching my head was Roose's assertion that he needed Theon to trade for Moat Cailin, whatever that was all about...and later the close-up of the wedding pie. I replayed the close-up a few times, but I really couldn't see anything, but finally concluded that the jewel from Sansa's necklace must have been in the filling???

The last exchange between Roose and Ramsey seems to hint that they may end up as being the authors of the pink letter after all, or am I wrong about that?

I actually thought the changes from the book were good this time. The W5K was pretty funny actually. Was Renly really riding Loras? For the wedding guests? Stannis was on Mel and when the arrow hits him wildfires erupts! The direwolf loosing it's head was sad and since that is the only actor whose face we didn't see I wonder if that's Penny.

Yes the very last jewel to the right of Sansa necklace is missing if you look close. Our right, her left where Olenna fusses with her hair.

And that was my thought too on the Pink Letter.

Oh and wasn't the girl that Ramsay and the Septa bird chase through the woods the blonde that was the Septa bird's partner in torturing Theon? I hate to be a typical male here but I didn't really look at her face much, my wife insists that it was though.

And finally, some Heresy: Bran's back (and good gods is puberty hitting that kid hard); very interesting that BR actively talks to him, and that really weird dragon flyby of KL in the vision--I wonder if it was meant to be a flashback to like King Jahaerys I or something or a "flashforward" to something that might (but probably won't) happen

And then there's Selyse--so crazy. And yet another semi-nod to us bookies by having Ser Axel get burned (they did say it was Ser Axel, right? Cause he's the fanatic brother who goes north in the books, correct?)

Overall, I would give the episode a B+; it was good, it had one of the scenes that I was looking forward to (Purple Wedding) and it did an excellent job at portraying it, particularly the cruel-Joffrey, uncomfortable parts; I just wasn't enjoying the episode quite as much as I did last week

It was definitely KL in the dragon flyby and it could very well be what-may-never-be because the throne room was covered in white like in Dany's vision. So maybe not a flash forward. Hopefully it is though. One of the things I really liked about Bran's vision was that he got see Ned in his last moments in the Black Cells then the raven flying into the crypts is almost like the good bye from Ned that we never actually got to see. Bet Black Crow will say it's a pointer to there being something of importance down there and he will probably be right.

I really hope they burn Selyse. Gods what a horrible woman. It was Ser Axel Shireen said they burned. But isn't that her Selyse's wanker of an uncle not her brother? And it was Alyster, Axel's brother got burnt in the books no?

I agree with you grade for the episode as a B/B+. Just wish the PW had been better cinematically.

Yield-

Was also underwhelmed. Just didn't have any gravitas. I kept finding myself re-writing scenes in my head that got to the gist of it quicker and with accuracy to source material.

That's exactly the word I was looking for. All the players seemed so tense for so long that it lost the tension for me. If you can't keep the tension then make Joff do something so over the top -- like be kind and loving -- then when he dies you think twice. That said the acting was top notch.

It wasn't very extravagant was it?? The feast looked to be a picnic. D&D were saving the budget on this particular scene. It didn't have the proper look or feel at least until Joffery' s closeup. I loved that!

That's what I thought too! They must be saving the budget for the Wall battle that is supposed to be on par with the Battle of the Blackwater so they just hired some jugglers and made a big paper-mache lion head. If I understand correctly Joff's face is what someone choked to death is supposed to look like. The mucus membranes rupture and you bleed through your nose and the blood vessels burst in your eyes and cheeks. So I don't know if they did that to indicate poisoning or not but either way since the poison was the Strangler then it's spot on. I just once want one of the characters that are supposed to claw themsleves actually do though. Oh well maybe Thistle...

Did anyone else catch the face of the WW in that splintered/jagged ice? What is that about? Was that the vision Bran has after he looks past the curtain of the world that filled him with fear?

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

I've never been great at picking up hints and am quite stoned at the moment. Are you saying it may complicate having a wedding ring on my ring finger?

Nope - sorry... it was supposed to be a pun, but it just doesn't work as well in type. I fixed my previous post with a link, though - so check it again. :)

[Yield.]

We can answer and discuss by PM especially if you're worried about page space but I really would like my fellow Heretic's input on this.

I now have a tattoo that covers the whole top of my ring finger that I need to get covered up. That will be covered up as part of the piece but the whole thing will cover the back of my hand and involve other fingers.

The current idea is to have the Norse Yggdrasil tree on the back of my hand and its roots going down to my fingers with it completely wrapping and covering my ring finger tattoo. Also trying to work in Winter Is Coming and ravens on the back of my hand.

I am super into ASOIAF, Celtic and Norse mythology and this Heresy here so whatever ideas you have are welcome I think I would be most happy with an idea that combines Celtic and/or Norse mythology with ASOIAF and likely also something Heresy specific.

So any ideas you could think of I'd love to hear them :) Going to get it priced tomorrow but will have to spend at least a few weeks saving up for the tat.

My godson had a nice all black tat from the elbow up on his arm of a tree with one side in leaf and the other with bare branches and ravens flying off the branches across his chest.

Editied for clarity.

[Yield.]

Is it just me? It looked like in last night's episode, the face in Bran's wierwood tree has fangs.

Maybe just the pattern of bark underneath?

I didn't notice the fangs, but I did notice the weirwood didn't have any blood colored sap around the eyes or mouth. Was that detail on purpose or???

I thought I saw fangs too. Anyone notice that the left eye seemed to be all white without a pupil like the left one? I didn't like that they didn't include the sap. Also it kind of looked like the actor that is playing Bloodraven, I thought.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Did anyone else catch the face of the WW in that splintered/jagged ice? What is that about? Was that the vision Bran has after he looks past the curtain of the world that filled him with fear?

I came here to see if y'all were talking about this one yet, here's the screenshot - http://i.imgur.com/r3udFJD.png

This site link below is where I found the image and it looks as though, whoever put it together, put all of the screenshots in order from Bran's weirwood vision. (but I admit I have not personally checked) Anyway I thought the Heresy gang would like to see it. :)

http://imgur.com/a/AJYUE

[The Lord of Corpses]

Yggdrasil meets Winterfell Heartree= Epic.

The weirwoods bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands. A face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful. They were old, those eyes; older than Winterfell itself.

I have a tattoo of the seven sins in latin in the formed into the shape of the number seven. Kind of how i was able to pick up on the seven cuts by widow's wail in The Lion and The Rose.

Also have a weirwood tattoo with a direwolf face bleeding from its eyes and mouth. Has 7 ravens in the trees and a sword ( dark sister ) stabbed into base of the trunk, and underneath the fallen leaves and blood it says deo favente perennis ( you have to do some research into the foundation of the Great Seal of the United States and the Eye of Providence to understand this!).

I suggest you get a tattoo of Benjen Stark the Last First Ranger. ( edit he is also Coldhands so maybe just wait till Winds of Winter before you mess your body up with a idea you just thought about.)

[Yield.]

I came here to see if y'all were talking about this one yet, here's the screenshot - http://i.imgur.com/r3udFJD.png

This site link below is where I found the image and it looks as though, whoever put it together, put all of the screenshots in order from Bran's weirwood vision. (but I admit I have not personally checked) Anyway I thought the Heresy gang would like to see it. :)

http://imgur.com/a/AJYUE

Thanks Elaena that's awesome! We are missing our fearless leader this week so things are a bit slow.

I thought that was northern lights behind the face. Wonder if it's Hardhome and that's one of the dead things in the water? Cause the ice, on closer inspection, looks like the way ice freezes on moving water.

ETA: Whoops did it again, misspelled a name.

[wolfmaid7]

Wolfmaid, to me it seems overly complicated to assert that "the cold" is a separate entity from White Walkers and wights. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me. The White Walkers are the ones that shepherd the wights and they control the wights. They are the intelligent beings that you are attributing to "the cold". Why do you think there is a third ice entity? I know you've already supplied your reasoning, but it isn't making sense to me.

Feather here is my thread so you can see it in totality. As to why i believe the WWs are separate entity (which seems so obviously clear to me) i will throw out all my other reasoning for the most basic way i can put it by starting with questions first.

1. Do the Wights travel as a unit? Do you agree with this statement that they have a horde,group like movements?

2. How do they attack? I refer you to ( Sam,ASOS,pg.646) and (Prologue,on the Fist) their attack behavior is that of a swarm.

3. Do they exhibit inteliigence? I refer you again to the above text, we know from the prologue when Sam and Co fled the Fist Small Paul saved Sam's life on the treck.The Wight horde that was outside the hut Gilly and Sam were in consisted of Wildlings,and NW members,more NW members than Wildlings.But it wasn't just any Wight that came into the hut,it was the right Wight in the person that saved Sam's life. Causing him (Sam) to attempt communication.Any Wight could have walked in, for instance Chett who was among them and knew Sam him well .He teased Sam in fact or any one of the Sister men. Why use Small Paul?

4.Ser Puddles took Small Paul's life and he was killed in turn by Sam. Ofcourse Sam and the rest left his body where it was and returned to Craster's keep where crap was unleashed . During that time Small Paul rose and joined the horde that left the Fist is this a correct assumption?

a. According to some on this board Ser Puddles led the attack on the Fist,he died at Sam's hand so how was Small Paul raised?Some might say another WW. Then i ask when Sam and Gilly were being attacked at the hut who was leading the Wights? Was there a WW outside the hut.No they were acting by themselves as a swarm.They sent in someone that Sam would hesitate against.Their behaviour is that of a top teir predator.

b. We have yet to see the WW's lead Wights to attack humans,but i do believe they are integral to getting rid of the Wights.That being said ,A shepard that leads sheep is not the same as the sheep.If you have 1 million sheep and 3 shepards can they effectivly do the job?

This is why they aren't the same entity and why the WWs didn't lead the attack on the Fist and on Sam and Gilly.They are under the influence of the entity that is represented by that blue glow that dwells in them.

Can the WWs shepard them ? Yes

Are they leading Wights to attack humans? No

Why? Too much Wight too little WWs and the fact that we have seen them act in the above manner is proof. Hardome is proof enough as well.The cold that is raising the dead and killing the sick is loose in the atmosphere beyond the wall. Hence the reason Towin- Toumond's son who was asleep in the camp and died rose,if your healthy your good to go.

We can answer and discuss by PM especially if you're worried about page space but I really would like my fellow Heretic's input on this.

I now have a tattoo that covers the whole top of my ring finger that I need to get covered up. That will be covered up as part of the piece but the whole thing will cover the back of my hand and involve other fingers.

The current idea is to have the Norse Yggdrasil tree on the back of my hand and its roots going down to my fingers with it completely wrapping and covering my ring finger tattoo. Also trying to work in Winter Is Coming and ravens on the back of my hand.

I am super into ASOIAF, Celtic and Norse mythology and this Heresy here so whatever ideas you have are welcome I think I would be most happy with an idea that combines Celtic and/or Norse mythology with ASOIAF and likely also something Heresy specific.

So any ideas you could think of I'd love to hear them :) Going to get it priced tomorrow but will have to spend at least a few weeks saving up for the tat.

Ahh that is so cool, i like the altertion to Yiddrsel that you mentioned.

I didn't notice the fangs, but I did notice the weirwood didn't have any blood colored sap around the eyes or mouth. Was that detail on purpose or???

There were fangs? Yeah there was no red sap from the eyes or mouth.

So, I would like to blow some air in the theory that Coldhands is: drumroll......

NO ONE

I think the mystery of who he is, and how he can be dead and a goody is one of the book's deepest and interesting secrets. BUT. Since they have cut him out of the tv-show, would that be evidence that he is indeed just a dead crow, controlled by tCoTF to help important persons make their goal? I think so, even though I would be happily surprised if he turned out to be either Benjen or The Night King, or someone else.

He could still well make an appearance, but since Sam never met him, and Bran haven't met him yet. In e02 says Bran says "I know where we have to go". making Coldhands important as a guide irrelevant.

I would say the chances that they cut him out is pretty good..

If he is indeed cut out, I would say that indicates he is not an important character.

And if he does appear later, I think it would be the second before Bran and his company is killed by wights/Others

That would be really awful if they did,there were some pretty cool scenes with him and i have to say he saved their butts out there.

I actually thought the changes from the book were good this time. The W5K was pretty funny actually. Was Renly really riding Loras? For the wedding guests? Stannis was on Mel and when the arrow hits him wildfires erupts! The direwolf loosing it's head was sad and since that is the only actor whose face we didn't see I wonder if that's Penny.

Yes the very last jewel to the right of Sansa necklace is missing if you look close. Our right, her left where Olenna fusses with her hair.

And that was my thought too on the Pink Letter.

Oh and wasn't the girl that Ramsay and the Septa bird chase through the woods the blonde that was the Septa bird's partner in torturing Theon? I hate to be a typical male here but I didn't really look at her face much, my wife insists that it was though.

It was definitely KL in the dragon flyby and it could very well be what-may-never-be because the throne room was covered in white like in Dany's vision. So maybe not a flash forward. Hopefully it is though. One of the things I really liked about Bran's vision was that he got see Ned in his last moments in the Black Cells then the raven flying into the crypts is almost like the good bye from Ned that we never actually got to see. Bet Black Crow will say it's a pointer to there being something of importance down there and he will probably be right.

I really hope they burn Selyse. Gods what a horrible woman. It was Ser Axel Shireen said they burned. But isn't that her Selyse's wanker of an uncle not her brother? And it was Alyster, Axel's brother got burnt in the books no?

I agree with you grade for the episode as a B/B+. Just wish the PW had been better cinematically.

That's exactly the word I was looking for. All the players seemed so tense for so long that it lost the tension for me. If you can't keep the tension then make Joff do something so over the top -- like be kind and loving -- then when he dies you think twice. That said the acting was top notch.

That's what I thought too! They must be saving the budget for the Wall battle that is supposed to be on par with the Battle of the Blackwater so they just hired some jugglers and made a big paper-mache lion head. If I understand correctly Joff's face is what someone choked to death is supposed to look like. The mucus membranes rupture and you bleed through your nose and the blood vessels burst in your eyes and cheeks. So I don't know if they did that to indicate poisoning or not but either way since the poison was the Strangler then it's spot on. I just once want one of the characters that are supposed to claw themsleves actually do though. Oh well maybe Thistle...

Did anyone else catch the face of the WW in that splintered/jagged ice? What is that about? Was that the vision Bran has after he looks past the curtain of the world that filled him with fear?

I did not see that,but dido on Selsye she is awwwwwful.

[CommanderBC]

I came here to see if y'all were talking about this one yet, here's the screenshot - http://i.imgur.com/r3udFJD.png

http://imgur.com/a/AJYUE

Nice collection, I was just watching that scene, pausing at every new picture. Three interesting things as I see it.

1. The crypts of Winterfell. lot's of visions from the book is about this goddamn mysteryplace.

2. The face in the ice. Is it just me that thinks he has but ONE blue eye? BR?

3. Second time we see a throneroom in snow. And just like the last time, it seems like the whole roof is gone, and by the looks of it, the reason was violent.